StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Of interest to me is why the Death Star apparently did nothing to stop R2 from looking around its file archives, shutting the garbage compactors on/off, and possibly fucking with the water temperature in Tarkin's shower for shits and giggles. You'd think the Death Star would have a computer AI at least as intelligent as R2 hiding in its massive architecture. Even if just for software security.

Is the Death Star's AI as unreliable as the MAGI or something?

CaptHawkeye wrote:Of interest to me is why the Death Star apparently did nothing to stop R2 from looking around its file archives, shutting the garbage compactors on/off, and possibly fucking with the water temperature in Tarkin's shower for shits and giggles. You'd think the Death Star would have a computer AI at least as intelligent as R2 hiding in its massive architecture. Even if just for software security.

Is the Death Star's AI as unreliable as the MAGI or something?

Now THATS a desing oversight.

Then again, how often do you expect infiltrators on a space station (even a mobile one)?
Sneaking in is not exactly easy, especially if it is purley military.

And looking at some files (simple maps of the corridors) and operating a garbage compactor are not exactly very dangerous.

R2 didn't really extract any sensitive info on the Death Star. Tractor beam coupling locations, sanitation and prisoner cell listing. It's not like he turned off security systems or deactivate the comm systems or tractor beams themselves. And he already had the DS plans in him, so he didn't even get a full schematic while on the DS as far as we know.

Then again, we never saw an sentient AI that wasn't a droid in Star Wars.

A possbile explanation is that they want to prevent an AI takeoff - a droid has very limited self-improving capabilities, something which is not true for a sumper-computer scale AI.

Isolder74 wrote:

Darth Tanner wrote:How so? We never see him do anything 'infiltrator' like. He can access computers but we never see him break open a security door or do anything a standard issue maintenance/navigator droid couldn't.

Yes we have.

Opened the door to the Falcon ESB

Hacked the files on the Falcon's Hyperdrive

Using the Bunker in Jedi as an example is bad because he got shot before he even got started.

Only after Han and Luke broke into the detention center did R2 have any trouble looking things up. He was able to look at the Prisoner Files. You think that isn't restricted?

I assume you mean he opened the door on Bespin to get to the Falcon. Not really much of a feat, considering the door has a specific interface that R2 units come with the tool to access. Also like C-3PO said, "Artoo, you can tell the computer to override the security system."
So Artoo didn't actually do the overriding himself and when R2 actually jacks into the computer, and not the power socket, the computer tells him that the hyperdrive is deactivated. It seems more like computers and droids have a friendly association when they are connected more than a hacker/computer relationship.

Also, on the DS Threepio says: "I said, all systems have been alerted to your presence, sir. The main entrance seems to be the only way in or out; all other information on your level is restricted."
You could interpret that as a change in access, but I take it to mean that the info was already restricted, before the shooting started.

As for hacking the files on the MF. That looked more like he physically reconnected something in the access panel more than his usual computer accessing.

Serafina wrote:Then again, we never saw an sentient AI that wasn't a droid in Star Wars.

A possbile explanation is that they want to prevent an AI takeoff - a droid has very limited self-improving capabilities, something which is not true for a sumper-computer scale AI.

Sure we did. The Falcon obviously has some sentience otherwise why would 3PO be having trouble getting info from it. 3PO warns R2 about trusting strange computers.

Both of those seem to indicate the computers in Star Wars have personalities and their own intelligence. The only difference between droids and computers seems to be size and mobility.

As for not encouraging AI, that is why they have mind wipes.

Serafina wrote:A possbile explanation is that they want to prevent an AI takeoff - a droid has very limited self-improving capabilities, something which is not true for a super-computer scale AI.

Not really. Considering the insane amounts of memory droids have, they would need to program blocks against this sort of thing. In the beginning of ANH R2 already has almost 2 decades of memories, and then gets the complete plans for a 100 mile wide space station shoved in there. But we don't see him starting to have problems due to lack of space.

What's stopping him from using that space to his own ends?

Where, exactly, does 'has oodles of harddrive space' translate into 'the AI managing it can do whatever it wants?'

Havok wrote:

Serafina wrote:Then again, we never saw an sentient AI that wasn't a droid in Star Wars.

A possbile explanation is that they want to prevent an AI takeoff - a droid has very limited self-improving capabilities, something which is not true for a sumper-computer scale AI.

Sure we did. The Falcon obviously has some sentience otherwise why would 3PO be having trouble getting info from it. 3PO warns R2 about trusting strange computers.

Both of those seem to indicate the computers in Star Wars have personalities and their own intelligence. The only difference between droids and computers seems to be size and mobility.

As for not encouraging AI, that is why they have mind wipes.

Granted, i forgot about that.

However, the Falcon still seems to be on the "same scale" as droids - and i still do not remember any "supercomputer" in Star Wars

However, the Falcon still seems to be on the "same scale" as droids

Except that it can't communicate with its crew directly, C3PO needed to find out the information that the hyperdrive was damaged. That might indicate that the droid brain of the Falcon is simply limited in its functionality or that its just computer diagnostic software that reported to C3PO the damage report status.

The Falcon obviously has some sentience otherwise why would 3PO be having trouble getting info from it

That the Falcon is a rust bucket pile of home modifications that might not have a standard computer system or a system that a translator droid isn't able to use effectively.

I assume you mean he opened the door on Bespin to get to the Falcon. Not really much of a feat, considering the door has a specific interface that R2 units come with the tool to access.

Also he had the ruler of the city there to help him with any authorisation codes he needed, Lando said the codes had been changed but he was still able to issue city wide notifications which presumably means he still had some control.

He was able to look at the Prisoner Files. You think that isn't restricted?

Ok I concede that. It would be highly foolish to keep data on high level prisoners on a open computer system.

Of interest to me is why the Death Star apparently did nothing to stop R2 from looking around its file archives

There must be millions of droids on the Death Star to make up for its small crew compliment, perhaps R2 was able to access data on a guest user account or a simply maintenance account that has limited oversight.

Darth Tanner wrote:There must be millions of droids on the Death Star to make up for its small crew compliment, perhaps R2 was able to access data on a guest user account or a simply maintenance account that has limited oversight.

You expect, though, that even low level accounts would require a certain level of authorisation, albeit less than more sensitive systems. Therefore, the fact that Artoo was able to access anything shows that he has a certain degree of infiltration software, and his inability to access anything crucial is simply a limitation of that software.

Darth Tanner wrote:

He was able to look at the Prisoner Files. You think that isn't restricted?

Ok I concede that. It would be highly foolish to keep data on high level prisoners on a open computer system.

I seem to recall a tracking device and an easy escape being plotpoints in that movie.

A plan only conceived after they busted into the detention level and rescued Leia.

As for stopping R2 from gaining access, consider that Threepio said that some information on the detention level was restricted. Also consider that stormtroopers showed up within a few minutes. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Crazedwraith wrote:A plan only conceived after they busted into the detention level and rescued Leia.

Darth Vader wrote:They must be trying to return the stolen plans to the Princess. She may yet be of some use to us.

This was while Han, Luke, Ben, Chewie and the droids were still on the Falcon.

That's still shit security. No idiot robot could come into my office and access even personal email without uber haxx or authorisation. It seems more likely that R2 is just a haxx0r robot than the DS just habitually lets any idiot on a console know about sensitive political prisoners. His probe apparently fits codekey slots, so he's probably impersonating someone with his cyberdick.

Or in the manner of complacent soldiers everywhere, they left the terminal unsecured.

Yeah, Blackshirt #776 could have let his thing plugged in, but then you wouldn't expect R2 to have to use his pokey-prod. They clearly used him to 'access' the computer, as he does elsewhere where he defeats security (Bespin etc).

Cpl Kendall wrote:Or in the manner of complacent soldiers everywhere, they left the terminal unsecured.

What R2 did was essentially rifling through file cabinets and log books. Since the Death Star was new, I'm sure security guards and other personnel still needed diagrams to know how to get from one post to another.

Stark wrote:Yeah, Blackshirt #776 could have let his thing plugged in, but then you wouldn't expect R2 to have to use his pokey-prod. They clearly used him to 'access' the computer, as he does elsewhere where he defeats security (Bespin etc).

I figure they had R2 do it because he's either faster or they have no idea how to look for her themselves. I'm not sure but I don't R2 is ever actually shown accessing a computer any other way but with his little stick.

What R2 did was essentially rifling through file cabinets and log books. Since the Death Star was new, I'm sure security guards and other personnel still needed diagrams to know how to get from one post to another.

Probably. I don't have much problem with her location being easily accessible from the computer anyways, most military detention facilities I've visited just have a board with the cells and names on them in the open behind the duty desk.

Perhaps it's related to the strange lack of keyboards or standard interfaces? That console was fucking wierd, with semi-circle button arrays and a giant line-board that looked like a train track controller when I was a kid. Luke almost certainly had no idea how to use that system, and Ben was happy to let R2 do the gruntwork, so maybe you're right.

Stark wrote:Perhaps it's related to the strange lack of keyboards or standard interfaces? That console was fucking wierd, with semi-circle button arrays and a giant line-board that looked like a train track controller when I was a kid. Luke almost certainly had no idea how to use that system, and Ben was happy to let R2 do the gruntwork, so maybe you're right.

Most heavy engineering control rooms until fairly recently have been pretty indecipherable in that manner. The line board could be showing coca-cola premix feed tube networks for all we know.

As for the insecure terminals; didn't they just bust in an shoot everyone while they were working?

I dunno, minesite control rooms (the only kind I've really seen) are pretty logical to me, even if I have no idea what most of the idicators are supposed to be. I love the whole 'this is what people thought high tech looked like in 1978' vibe, though.

JointStrikeFighter wrote:
As for the insecure terminals; didn't they just bust in an shoot everyone while they were working?

Yeah they did, the crewman who was trying to reach TK421 heads over to the door after Han/Luke pull the "my radio is busted" trick and he gets shot when they burst in, his buddy gets shot at the terminal IIRC.

They've got some pretty complex line drawings going on in the nuke plant.

If I had to take a guess about the death star I would say each of those monitors show hangery shit and the lights joining them indicate atmospheric containment or feed and shit.