SGU 119, Incursion Part 1 (Spoilers)

[Sabastian Tombs]

I'm surprised that the Lucian Alliance, a group of smugglers, doesn't understand the concept of "Let's make a deal". They could have come to the SGC with this proposal; "You have some people way out there. We may have a way to reach them. We want a percentage."

Or does this idea not have any story potential?

[JME2]

I'm surprised that the Lucian Alliance, a group of smugglers, doesn't understand the concept of "Let's make a deal". They could have come to the SGC with this proposal; "You have some people way out there. We may have a way to reach them. We want a percentage."

Or does this idea not have any story potential?

If had been the Alliance at large, they might have. But Kiva's faction may simply be more agressive. That or the LA isn't fond of Earth given that the Tau'ri have been a major pain in the ass to them.

[spaceviking]

I'm curious, are there any major budget constraints for SGU that would limit them from using more of the special effects we've seen previously?

I think they're actually rather embarrassed about some of the concepts in older episodes, and don't want to use them again. Notice the thing Rush was tortured with in the last episode was quite different from the full size goa'uld version; more like a taser than producing the light-from-the-mouth effect.

The difference in torture weapons may simply be because these guys are former thugs and gangsters. They may have access to gould pain sticks, but they are simply not their style.

[Covenant]

I actually watched some SG1 to see if I knew what kind of mental control they were using, and I do not think it's the Nishta one--hilariously though, in Season 3, Episode 2 (the one with the Seth cult) they zat several people under Nishta and instead of being stunned, they just look slightly shocked and some don't even fall over. Clearly the Zat effect is not a uniform effect and relatively minor stuff can mitigate stunning effect.

It's too bad--if they had indeed had Telford under Nishta they could have mentioned the zats and had to go in and give Telford the de-fib paddles to wake him outta it--and then try to make sure he doesn't die from the shock. Coulda' been a lot more interesting scene, since you could have added the medic gal complaining about the risks and the ethics and so forth.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I thought this episode was worthwhile just for the scene where it is explained that the Tau'ri military authority defers to civilian authority - the Lucian leader glances at Telford for confirmation and he just shoots her this priceless look as if to say "Yeah, that's how it works ."

That was probably the best moment for me as well. I wish I had a screencap of Telford's half-smirk, it was priceless.

[GuppyShark]

NecronLord, bless his robotic heart, already posted a link to it:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 6#p3335276

[Themightytom]

NecronLord, bless his robotic heart, already posted a link to it:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 6#p3335276

Stargate DOES tend to portray its civilians as rather hapless and hopeless. that might be why my initial reaction to Rush was so hostile, he IS reasonable competent, but he seems to not know his place. Young gives him an order and god dammit if Rush doesn't do what he wants anyway

Wray as well gets a little bit of unfair flack because she's a civillian "interfering" with military matters, though in truth she isn't being kept in any kind of a loop so her "interference" is the only form of participation she can manage. Chloe is in the loop by sheer virtue of fucking Scott and jerking off Eli, who is himself given approaval mostly because he follows directions.

[CaptJodan]

I actually had the laugh about Wrey this week; her declaration that she was the head of the civilians aboard ship, and by extension (at least as she was describing it to the LA), head of the ship. She's pretty much self-appointed herself to that position, as I have yet to see any of the civilians really vote or give any kind of indication that they want her as her leader (with the possible exception of her failed coup attempt). Rush isn't interested in leading the group, but he seems to have more influence over events than Wrey, who more often than not is shot down the moment she comes to whine about something.

[NecronLord]

I actually watched some SG1 to see if I knew what kind of mental control they were using, and I do not think it's the Nishta one--hilariously though, in Season 3, Episode 2 (the one with the Seth cult) they zat several people under Nishta and instead of being stunned, they just look slightly shocked and some don't even fall over. Clearly the Zat effect is not a uniform effect and relatively minor stuff can mitigate stunning effect.

In seasons two and three, Zats caused great pain that sometimes caused people to black out. Season four onwards, the experience invariably caused the victim to pass out.

[NecronLord]

Stargate DOES tend to portray its civilians as rather hapless and hopeless.

That's not entirely true, I'd say. Jackson was invariably in the right when he disputed military decisions, as was Weir. As for helpless, well, they're logically not going to be so good at fighting.

[Crazedwraith]

I actually watched some SG1 to see if I knew what kind of mental control they were using, and I do not think it's the Nishta one--hilariously though, in Season 3, Episode 2 (the one with the Seth cult) they zat several people under Nishta and instead of being stunned, they just look slightly shocked and some don't even fall over. Clearly the Zat effect is not a uniform effect and relatively minor stuff can mitigate stunning effect.

In seasons two and three, Zats caused great pain that sometimes caused people to black out. Season four onwards, the experience invariably caused the victim to pass out.

Apart from when they didn't. Like in Prodigy in Season 4 for example and Exodus.

[NecronLord]

Fine, season 4 if you insist. But the point is much the same; instance of zats not causing unconciousness drops substantially later in the series.

[Bilbo]

Give it a 4. It had its moments but some were weak as well.

When Telford confirmed the vacuum option what was the LA trying to accomplish by putting on old fashioned gas masks? A gas mask wont do anything for you in that situation even if it supplies all the oxygen you need but the whole body exposed to a vacuum will take people out pretty quick.

I am sure Destiny limits their control of the ship at all levels but are the only options really full atmo or vacuum? The whole invasion could be stopped dead if you reduce the atmo in the gate room to say 10%. No one dies and everyone passes out in a second or two. Then you go in grab who you want, disarm the LA and problem solved.

The lack of Zats as already mentioned over and over again, no matter the probably excuse, still feels like pissing on the previous shows.

WTF was this the LA having insta door openers? Nothing we have seen anywhere matches the doors on Destiny. They are nothing like Goauld or Ancient tech in any way. I cannot imagine the crew has used the stones to explain things as useless as the door designs on Destiny. A few throwaway words on how they just happened to have skeleton keys to to this point unique doors would be nice.

Im guessing Telford dies and takes a large number of the LA people with him. I do not see the show changing to accomodate a large number of LA characters. The female lead wont work, she wont gel with the rest of the crew. Finally the ship can barely handle the number of poeple on it now. If too many LA people join the crew then you suddenly need to handwave the ship a lot more food and water.

If they find another one of these explodo planets I am going to puke. At some point we need someone to throw out a line that they figured out that the Ancients actually have a process where they create these planets. No way that these can form naturally and survive for very long. They are just too unstable.

At some point I would like to hear a line in the show where they talk about using the robots they control to ocassionally make repairs. Sending them when they can to take pieces off one section of the ship to weld over some of these gaping holes would be nice. It would save atmo as well as ships energy being used to run all those shields.

Eli, lose some fucking weight dude. Your on a ship with limited food. You should be getting thin not packing on more and more mantits.

The LA was in a huge hurry but would have been nice to see them drive at least one four wheeler carry all through the gate. It could have been sent flying and damaged, but it would have allowed a lot more gear as needed to be added to the show.

I want to hear a decent explanation of the LA's motivation. From Telford they know that the SGC has minimal control of the ship, little supplies, no way to resupply, and that the ship is falling apart. What did the LA think they were going to gain by coming to Destiny? Even if they can take the ship they are on their own and with very limited knowledge base. The SGC actually has the avantage in that control of Atlantis likely makes the SGC the galaxies experts on Ancient tech (esp since the Asgard are gone). The LA would have no way to communicate home, little knowledge of Ancient tech, and it looks like they were bringing more thugs than brains on their incursion.

[Bilbo]

Fine, season 4 if you insist. But the point is much the same; instance of zats not causing unconciousness drops substantially later in the series.

By the episode where Tealc dies and Jack gets zatted on the Tok'ra planet I was getting the impression that they were showing how badass Jack was that he was able to ignore a zat and stay concious.

[adam_grif]

I'm thinking that the whole season was filmed very close together, and that Eli's actor will shed some pounds between seasons because the actor actually has time to do so.

[Bilbo]

I'm thinking that the whole season was filmed very close together, and that Eli's actor will shed some pounds between seasons because the actor actually has time to do so.

Very true and probably the main reason. But a decent dedicated actor could shed noticable pounds even in a 6 or 8 week shoot schedule.

[Temujin]

When Telford confirmed the vacuum option what was the LA trying to accomplish by putting on old fashioned gas masks? A gas mask wont do anything for you in that situation even if it supplies all the oxygen you need but the whole body exposed to a vacuum will take people out pretty quick.

I am sure Destiny limits their control of the ship at all levels but are the only options really full atmo or vacuum? The whole invasion could be stopped dead if you reduce the atmo in the gate room to say 10%. No one dies and everyone passes out in a second or two. Then you go in grab who you want, disarm the LA and problem solved.

That's actually a rather great idea, too bad Young is bonehead.

I'm thinking that the whole season was filmed very close together, and that Eli's actor will shed some pounds between seasons because the actor actually has time to do so.

Very true and probably the main reason. But a decent dedicated actor could shed noticable pounds even in a 6 or 8 week shoot schedule.

If that was the case, he could have started losing weight beforehand and they could have used some padding and makeup to make him look heavier at the beginning, then reduced it has he lost more weight and viola, thin Eli. I just hope he doesn't get any bigger, he's certainly looking like he is.

[Oskuro]

A gas mask wont do anything for you in that situation even if it supplies all the oxygen you need but the whole body exposed to a vacuum will take people out pretty quick.

No. Survival in a vacuum is possible as long as you can breathe. It has no immediate harmful effects on the body. There was a thread on this some time back, but can't seem to find it.

It would follow that a system that keeps the respiratory system pressurized would delay unconsciousness, since in a vacuum the air inside the lungs would escape quickly, not giving a chance to hold your breath. A sealed full face mask would give someone a few seconds to act, maybe a couple minutes (without an air supply), wich, as seen in the episode, is pretty much what the LA needed to open the doors, wich would've forced Young to pressurize the room.

[Temujin]

But even if they did make it to the doors and opened them, they'd be weakened and disoriented, giving the SG personnel a better chance against them.

[NecronLord]

Give it a 4. It had its moments but some were weak as well.

When Telford confirmed the vacuum option what was the LA trying to accomplish by putting on old fashioned gas masks? A gas mask wont do anything for you in that situation even if it supplies all the oxygen you need but the whole body exposed to a vacuum will take people out pretty quick.

They were using smoke grenades. Where do you think all that smoke came from?

I am sure Destiny limits their control of the ship at all levels but are the only options really full atmo or vacuum? The whole invasion could be stopped dead if you reduce the atmo in the gate room to say 10%. No one dies and everyone passes out in a second or two. Then you go in grab who you want, disarm the LA and problem solved.

It doesn't really work that way. And again, by the time Young knew that was possible, the Lucians were all up in his grill with their door openers.

WTF was this the LA having insta door openers? Nothing we have seen anywhere matches the doors on Destiny. They are nothing like Goauld or Ancient tech in any way. I cannot imagine the crew has used the stones to explain things as useless as the door designs on Destiny. A few throwaway words on how they just happened to have skeleton keys to to this point unique doors would be nice.

The Lucians explore offscreen. Perhaps they found the Thessura Infinatas and it has the same doors. There are many potential explanations. Not least that the galaxy is a lot bigger than just the bits SG1 have seen

At some point I would like to hear a line in the show where they talk about using the robots they control to ocassionally make repairs. Sending them when they can to take pieces off one section of the ship to weld over some of these gaping holes would be nice. It would save atmo as well as ships energy being used to run all those shields.

Robot, singular

I want to hear a decent explanation of the LA's motivation. From Telford they know that the SGC has minimal control of the ship, little supplies, no way to resupply, and that the ship is falling apart. What did the LA think they were going to gain by coming to Destiny? Even if they can take the ship they are on their own and with very limited knowledge base. The SGC actually has the avantage in that control of Atlantis likely makes the SGC the galaxies experts on Ancient tech (esp since the Asgard are gone).

We really don't know what they've got. For all we know, they found the Thessura Infinatas, the war-chest of the Alterans at the height of their power before the plague, and have far more understanding of Ancient stuff than the Tau'ri and of this era in particular.

I am content to wait and see exactly what they have.

Incidentally, I expect the Nox probably count as the galaxy's experts. Knowing how to build stargates and control them with thought alone and all that stuff.

The LA would have no way to communicate home, little knowledge of Ancient tech, and it looks like they were bringing more thugs than brains on their incursion.

The SGC can duplicate communications stones, why not the Lucians? Again, they do exploration of their own off-screen.

[Themightytom]

where is thesura infinitas coming from?

[Joe Momma]

And I agree that Carter not beaming the pilots in was a stupid move. They should've had a ground unit still under the disruption fields being left behind instead, that would have been properly dramatic, and not as troublesome.

IIRC, it was stated that the 302s in question were still under the jamming field so the pilots couldn't be beamed out.

[Oskuro]

I think that was stated about the ground troops, although it could be both I guess.

[NecronLord]

where is thesura infinitas coming from?

The Thessura Infinatas is a vast weapons storehouse of the Alterans stored away for future use that made the background for four of the episodes of Season 10 of SG1 including the mid-season two-parter, and was sought by the goa'uld, among others. It was strongly implied to be valuable to the point that Adria personally attempted to secure it. Merlin (AKA, Moros, Last High Chancellor of Atlantis) was also interested in finding it, as he had research materials on it in his library. The goa'uld Athena was known to possess the 'key' (the Clava Thessura Infinatas) to this storehouse.

Interestingly, the planet the SGC was on they went to, found a modern-technology civilization in civil war, and left. For all we know, the Lucians went there, shot the natives up, and found the thing.

It's merely an example of the many, many, many ways the Lucians could have encountered Ancient technology sources as valuable as or more valuable than Atlantis. The point is that they could have thousands of Alteran warships equipped with a great pile of ZPMs for all we know about them. We really have no idea what the Lucians have, except that they're now more dangerous than they used to be. I am at best an amateur writer, and I can think up a way to even that particular playing field that draws on the series mythology in about five minutes. I'm sure the actual writers can do better.

[JME2]

where is thesura infinitas coming from?

The Thessura Infinatas is a vast weapons storehouse of the Alterans stored away for future use that made the background for four of the episodes of Season 10 of SG1 including the mid-season two-parter, and was sought by the goa'uld, among others. It was strongly implied to be valuable to the point that Adria personally attempted to secure it. Merlin (AKA, Moros, Last High Chancellor of Atlantis) was also interested in finding it, as he had research materials on it in his library. The goa'uld Athena was known to possess the 'key' (the Clava Thessura Infinatas) to this storehouse.

Interestingly, the planet the SGC was on they went to, found a modern-technology civilization in civil war, and left. For all we know, the Lucians went there, shot the natives up, and found the thing.

It's merely an example of the many, many, many ways the Lucians could have encountered Ancient technology sources as valuable as or more valuable than Atlantis. The point is that they could have thousands of Alteran warships equipped with a great pile of ZPMs for all we know about them. We really have no idea what the Lucians have, except that they're now more dangerous than they used to be. I am at best an amateur writer, and I can think up a way to even that particular playing field that draws on the series mythology in about five minutes. I'm sure the actual writers can do better.

I always wondered if they'd plan to revisit that thread from SG-1; it seemed like they were setting it up for later in the season or even Season 11 before the cancellation was announced. It'd be a nice way to tie back into the Ancient mythology.