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Danny,

You do realize that lot of this stuff you are referring to is shit I made up while pretending to act like Jason right? We had like, a lot of posts pointing out that it was all a big joke.

You had me utterly f00led. I didnt read the entire post except like the last 2 pages. I obviously missed your deception.

Well Done.

Darth Tedious wrote:I'd agree they have some ability to go unnoticed when scouting, and even making small strikes. It just seems unlikely that they'd be maintaining any level of stealth while making large-scale assaults. To cause a level of damage sufficient to tip the balance of power of a whole quadrant, they'd very soon get noticed. Particularly when the only two strategies we've seen them use in large-scale attacks have been "swarm them with munbers" and "go for the guts".

In practice the Borg has been known to turn to stealth assimilation tactics when the group they were trying to assimilate can not be over power by their starships. If you wish to see an example of this go to this site http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Dark_Front ... episode%29 and please look at act 7 and look for when they talking about using an assimilation virus on Earth.

No, they have not been "known" to try stealth assimilation, Dark Frontier was the first time they only ever mused about doing it this way. It's also a complete waste of time considering they could have easily conquered humanity if they'd just for once send more than once cube to do it. They already had a transwarp channel leading directly to Earth FFS. Send fifty cubes, UFP goes down, Queen can finally satisfy her obsession, end.

Metahive wrote:No, they have not been "known" to try stealth assimilation, Dark Frontier was the first time they only ever mused about doing it this way. It's also a complete waste of time considering they could have easily conquered humanity if they'd just for once send more than once cube to do it. They already had a transwarp channel leading directly to Earth FFS. Send fifty cubes, UFP goes down, Queen can finally satisfy her obsession, end.

It up to writers Borg Queen would have send in more 50 Cubes if wish see evidence for this go to this site and then read background part.http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Quantum_torpedo

Also you’re saying that The Borg assimilationing outposts along both sides the Romulan neutral zone was not form stealth attack and was not longer scale attack. The UFP put outpost along Romulan Neutral zone to keep eye out for a Romulan invasion. Romulan put outpost along Romulan Neutral zone in case the UFP decide to invade. The Borg was able to destroy outpost on both sides Romulan Neutrals zone without either side knowing who did it. In Yesterday Enterprise timeline after Borg done assimilation those outpost know UFP not have any starships near by might have will attack some colonies maybe some colonies had industry complexes effect the UFP able to fight.

1. We have a fairly limited base of information from which to speculate about how the Borg might have responded to a Federation-Klingon war or the potential for such a war.

2. The simplest explanation for the Klingon success in the war is that, as a society of warriors, their ships and tactics were just better.

JasonB wrote:It up to writers Borg Queen would have send in more 50 Cubes if wish see evidence for this go to this site and then read background part.http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Quantum_torpedo

Of course, if the Borg assimilated the Alpha and Beta Quadrants by sending in sufficient forces there would be no more Trek shows, d'uh! In-universe answer, please!

lso you’re saying that The Borg assimilationing outposts along both sides the Romulan neutral zone was not form stealth attack and was not longer scale attack. The UFP put outpost along Romulan Neutral zone to keep eye out for a Romulan invasion. Romulan put outpost along Romulan Neutral zone in case the UFP decide to invade. The Borg was able to destroy outpost on both sides Romulan Neutrals zone without either side knowing who did it.

If some guy came and murdered a bunch of people in front of you, would you say he was stealthy just because you've never seen that guy before and don't know anything about him? The Borg were a brand-new threat, of course the Federation and the Romulans couldn't identify them just by looking at the ruins they left behind! Your thought patterns are as muddled as your writing patterns.

Metahive wrote:If some guy came and murdered a bunch of people in front of you, would you say he was stealthy just because you've never seen that guy before and don't know anything about him? The Borg were a brand-new threat, of course the Federation and the Romulans couldn't identify them just by looking at the ruins they left behind!

Even that's a bit of a false analogy. It's more like if someone killed a bunch of people where you didn't see, and left no witnesses.

In any way, it's not evidence for the Borg attempting to be stealthy. Leaving huge ruins behind will tip off people that some hostile force is in the vicinity. It's in fact the opposite of acting stealthily. The only actual example of the Borg acting subtly is in First Contact but that was more an effect of Enterprise's internal sensors having been knocked off-line. Even there the Borg lost no time to immediately create undeniable evidence of their presence by fiddling with the environmental controls.

Metahive wrote:In any way, it's not evidence for the Borg attempting to be stealthy. Leaving huge ruins behind will tip off people that some hostile force is in the vicinity. It's in fact the opposite of acting stealthily. The only actual example of the Borg acting subtly is in First Contact but that was more an effect of Enterprise's internal sensors having been knocked off-line. Even there the Borg lost no time to immediately create undeniable evidence of their presence by fiddling with the environmental controls.

The problem I have with Klingon warrior theory is the fact UFP raped the Klingon Empire both in TOS and DS9 to add to problem of Romulan theory is fact Romulan allies with Klingon during TOS. Also Worf bother openly stated Klingon Empire could not win a war UFP. By the way he was member Klingon high council and was tactic leader during the Klingon Civil War and member Klingon Defense force in till the Klingon Empire want to war against UFP.

We do even have example Borg ship having UFP starship disappear by the way USS Tombaugh.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Tombaugh

The Klingons post Khitomer Accord are different than the ones before it. Before the Accord, they were quite hostile with the Feds and both powers were in a cold war with at least one occasion almost lead to a hot war. After the KA, the Klingons were allies with the UFP so they would not have the necessary fleet numbers to invade a major power like the UFP.

JasonB, you quoted my post but didn't actually reply to any point in it and instead rambled about something unrelated. Did Dr.Frankenstein put your head on backwards again? We know he did it with your hands, that mean lil' prankster.

JasonB wrote:The problem I have with Klingon warrior theory is the fact UFP raped the Klingon Empire both in TOS and DS9

Sorry, wrong on both accounts: in TOS the war was ended by the Organians before we could see who was stronger, in the film era the Federation felt able to steamroll the Klingons with Romulan help, and in DS9 the Klingons were WINNING when the Changeling Martok was discovered and a ceasefire declared.

JasonB wrote:to add to problem of Romulan theory is fact Romulan allies with Klingon during TOS.

And in modern time they hate each other. From what we've seen, that alliance was a matter of trade: the Klingons wanted the cloaking device, and the Romulans needed antimatter-powered ships. Next thing we know after we've seen Klingon-built antimatter-powered ships under Romulan command and a cloak-capable Klingon ship, Romulans and Klingons were at each others' throaths enough that Romulan help was implied in the planned Starfleet attack to free Kirk in The Undiscovered Country, and in TNG-era they despise each others.

JasonB wrote:Also Worf bother openly stated Klingon Empire could not win a war UFP. By the way he was member Klingon high council and was tactic leader during the Klingon Civil War and member Klingon Defense force in till the Klingon Empire want to war against UFP.

Since when Worf was in the High Council? Wasn't that his brother's job? Not that it matters, we've seen that the Klingons were winning against the Federation both in Yesterday's Enterprise and in DS9...

lord Martiya wrote:

JasonB wrote:The problem I have with Klingon warrior theory is the fact UFP raped the Klingon Empire both in TOS and DS9

Sorry, wrong on both accounts: in TOS the war was ended by the Organians before we could see who was stronger, in the film era the Federation felt able to steamroll the Klingons with Romulan help, and in DS9 the Klingons were WINNING when the Changeling Martok was discovered and a ceasefire declared.

Since when Worf was in the High Council? Wasn't that his brother's job? Not that it matters, we've seen that the Klingons were winning against the Federation both in Yesterday's Enterprise and in DS9...

The klingons weren't winning during the brief war in DS9. Things hadn't progressed far enough to the point where someone could say whether they were winning or not. Sisko says something like 'Starfleet's managed to halt their advance, but that's about it.' in 'Apocalypse Rising'.

Little overstating, sorry. Thanks for correcting me.

lord Martiya wrote:Little overstating, sorry. Thanks for correcting me.

First if Borg were going to do smell attack UFP like did normal timeline they might not need destroy that many warships. 10 Galaxy class battleship years might weaken UFP enough chance balance of power. Again UFP might going same tactics as UFP during TOS tactic fighting two to one odds and having fight change risk lose destroy themselves by taken three to one odds. Galaxy class battleship strong enough takes on all three those BOP during final showdown if USS Enterprise D not trying fact she trying protects USS Enterprise C. By just USS Enterprise D charging at them fire phaser banks and photon torpedoes she able to destroy at least two in number second need wait few minutes for her phaser bank to recharge then finish off third one with risk war core breach. If Borg assimilation 10 UFP galaxy class battles starship year during 10 year period guessing Klingon Empire build 2 Klingon K'Vort-class battle cruiser and one Klingon scout BOP for each UFP galaxy class battleship being build. Now let say the UFP could build about 100 Galaxy class warships year. Means Klingon something like 200 Kvort class battle cruisers and 100 BOP scouts. UFP weaken starship still service keep Cardasson other less power at bay knowing no match Klingon warships. Klingon do the same thing weaker warship target practice UFP heavy armed starships. UFP have end year .10 smeller fleet then they would had if the Borg left UFP alone. Both sides losing something 42% fleet war that was going on between UFP and Klingon Empire. UFP losing .10 fleet what thing Klingon Empire doing. Klingon Empire when military strength 10% strength advances over the UFP.

JasonB wrote:

lord Martiya wrote:Little overstating, sorry. Thanks for correcting me.

First if Borg were going to do smell attack UFP like did normal timeline they might not need destroy that many warships. 10 Galaxy class battleship years might weaken UFP enough chance balance of power. Again UFP might going same tactics as UFP during TOS tactic fighting two to one odds and having fight change risk lose destroy themselves by taken three to one odds. Galaxy class battleship strong enough takes on all three those BOP during final showdown if USS Enterprise D not trying fact she trying protects USS Enterprise C. By just USS Enterprise D charging at them fire phaser banks and photon torpedoes she able to destroy at least two in number second need wait few minutes for her phaser bank to recharge then finish off third one with risk war core breach. If Borg assimilation 10 UFP galaxy class battles starship year during 10 year period guessing Klingon Empire build 2 Klingon K'Vort-class battle cruiser and one Klingon scout BOP for each UFP galaxy class battleship being build. Now let say the UFP could build about 100 Galaxy class warships year. Means Klingon something like 200 Kvort class battle cruisers and 100 BOP scouts. UFP weaken starship still service keep Cardasson other less power at bay knowing no match Klingon warships. Klingon do the same thing weaker warship target practice UFP heavy armed starships. UFP have end year .10 smeller fleet then they would had if the Borg left UFP alone. Both sides losing something 42% fleet war that was going on between UFP and Klingon Empire. UFP losing .10 fleet what thing Klingon Empire doing. Klingon Empire when military strength 10% strength advances over the UFP.

Yes. One must really watch for the borg smell attacks. Especially after Taco Night.
Ok, I think you are saying that the Klingons build three ships for every one the Federation produces, but I have no idea how you're getting there. Particulalry since you said IF the borg assimilate 10 Galaxy-class starships THEN the Klingons would massively outbuild the Federation. I'm a little puzzled by what goes on between the IF and THEN, for that matter, I can't see what they have to do with each other.

Yes, the E-D destroyed two Klingon ships with relative ease, and a third at great cost. It does not follow that every other battle would happen in exactly the same way, with both sides having identical numbers, objectives and tactics, and no variation in local conditions.

Why are you so fixated to pin the blame for the Federation's defeat on the Borg? Despite the Queen's foibles it's clear that humanity is of low priority for them, so why should they bother sending ships far away just to capture a small number of federation vessels that are technologically inferior to their own in every way?

Metahive wrote:Why are you so fixated to pin the blame for the Federation's defeat on the Borg? Despite the Queen's foibles it's clear that humanity is of low priority for them, so why should they bother sending ships far away just to capture a small number of federation vessels that are technologically inferior to their own in every way?

Will in any case Borg doing smell strikes against UFP in normal timeline any case. At least one UFP starship was assimilation before USS Enterprise D send release drydeck. USS Tombaugh was attack assimilation by the borg in 2362. It was unlikely only UFP starship disappear because Borg. Fact Galaxy class battleship was about twice strength Romulan warbird to say least since Romulan back down in the normal timeline when three BOP decloaked , when they could blow up USS Enterprise D few seconds. Sugestion Galaxy class battleship stronger then at least two romulan warbirds perhaps a lot more. So Borg might take Borg cube successful assimilation singe Galaxy class battleship with some damage across.

I don't give a shit about the Tombaugh. There's so little information about that ship in the episode (Infinite Regress) that introduces it that one might as well say it fell in an unstable wormhole and emerged in the Delta Quadrant directly in the path of a Borg vessel. One example does not a trend make. All other assimilated federation personnel that show up hail from ships that participated in the battle of Wolf 359.

JasonB wrote:Fact Galaxy class battleship was about twice strength Romulan warbird to say least since Romulan back down in the normal timeline when three BOP decloaked , when they could blow up USS Enterprise D few seconds.

Warbirds and Galaxies are about evenly matched in firepower but the warbird has a lower top-speed. It's stated so in the show (The Neutral Zone/Tin Man).

Sugestion Galaxy class battleship stronger then at least two romulan warbirds perhaps a lot more. So Borg might take Borg cube successful assimilation singe Galaxy class battleship with some damage across.

Whenever a galaxy-class vessel and a Borg cube meet, the former consistently fails to do lasting damage to the latter with just conventional means while the latter carves the former up at will. So much for your "sugestion".

Metahive wrote:I don't give a shit about the Tombaugh. There's so little information about that ship in the episode (Infinite Regress) that introduces it that one might as well say it fell in an unstable wormhole and emerged in the Delta Quadrant directly in the path of a Borg vessel. One example does not a trend make. All other assimilated federation personnel that show up hail from ships that participated in the battle of Wolf 359.

JasonB wrote:Fact Galaxy class battleship was about twice strength Romulan warbird to say least since Romulan back down in the normal timeline when three BOP decloaked , when they could blow up USS Enterprise D few seconds.

Warbirds and Galaxies are about evenly matched in firepower but the warbird has a lower top-speed. It's stated so in the show (The Neutral Zone/Tin Man).

Sugestion Galaxy class battleship stronger then at least two romulan warbirds perhaps a lot more. So Borg might take Borg cube successful assimilation singe Galaxy class battleship with some damage across.

Whenever a galaxy-class vessel and a Borg cube meet, the former consistently fails to do lasting damage to the latter with just conventional means while the latter carves the former up at will. So much for your "sugestion".

What if Klingon Empire conquared Breen? Could that explain why Klingon Empire was winning.

I don't know why I'm about to do this, and some of this may have been mentioned before, but...

What if Klingon Empire conquared Breen? Could that explain why Klingon Empire was winning.

Why does it have to? Why can't it just be that the Klingons are simply better at fighting a long war than the Federation? Their tech is robust, reliable and easy to mass produce, they use cloaks, and, most importantly, they're less affected, psychologically, by heavy casualties. The Klingons don't necessarily need to conquer anybody else to win a war against the Federation, they just need avoid losing early and wear them down.

Why would going to war with the Breen, who are not exactly pushovers, shortly before or even during their spat with the Federation make the Klingons more likely to win the latter? If anything that should have made a klingon victory less likely.

Metahive wrote:Why would going to war with the Breen, who are not exactly pushovers, shortly before or even during their spat with the Federation make the Klingons more likely to win the latter? If anything that should have made a klingon victory less likely.

Because it would have given the Klingons the advantage of the Breen's energy dampening weapon for about a week or so, duh!

^Patented JasonB logic at its very best.

Darth Tedious wrote:Because it would have given the Klingons the advantage of the Breen's energy dampening weapon for about a week or so, duh!

Impossible, not with all those stealthy, smelly Borg ships flying in between. Have you also forgotten how it affects the rocks and the anti-matter podes? To sum it up, Dark Vader wouldn't allow it. Why do you bunch always refuse to see the obvious!