Doctor Who S33E14 "The Day of the Doctor" [Spoilers]

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well, I rather enjoyed that. Hurt's take on the Doctor was a delight. Aside from that, I found the story sufficiently engrossing and the acting superb, with the exception of the Elizabeth I bits.

A few thoughts on things people have raised:

-The absence of other TARDISes: Well, this was "The Last Day" of the Time War, odds on they're aren't any (or many) left, or else Rassilon would have been using them to escape and continue the fight and/or buy time for his "destroy the universe" plot.

-Saving Gallifrey: This I liked. It's been long enough with the angst and the subtle hints of "I did something do terrible I disavowed my own past self. By the way, this is what I did." In a possible bit o fridge brilliance, this might explain why Nine, Ten and Eleven all seem surprisingly talkative about the Time War and their role in ending it, despite suppressing Hurt's Doctor. They know, subconsciously, that they didn't actually press the button.

-What happened to the Daleks: I speculate that the Moment detonated itself after Gallifrey was taken to safety, we did see a rather large boom after all. Since the Moment's problem stemmed with killing innocents, it would make sense that with the innocents out of the way, it would carry out it's task.

-Tom Baker's cameo: goddamn that was unexpected but really nice to see, he's still got it. As for who he is, I think he might be a projection of the TARDIS to point him where he needs to go which does seem to be Sexy's job in life.

[Nari]

Liked: Hurt's doctor scolding Tennant and Smith for waving their screwdrivers around (a pet peeve of mine is how often it gets used as a mostly ineffective weapon). This didnt make a great deal of sense as it has clearly acted as a defensive weapon in NuWho several times but I held a glimmer of hope that Moffatt had listened to some fan outcry and decided to fix it.

Confused: Not long after, three of them used together formed a considerably effective anti dalek offensive weapon. Did I miss something there?

[Enigma]

Liked: Hurt's doctor scolding Tennant and Smith for waving their screwdrivers around (a pet peeve of mine is how often it gets used as a mostly ineffective weapon). This didnt make a great deal of sense as it has clearly acted as a defensive weapon in NuWho several times but I held a glimmer of hope that Moffatt had listened to some fan outcry and decided to fix it.

Confused: Not long after, three of them used together formed a considerably effective anti dalek offensive weapon. Did I miss something there?

They just used it to push it back, using the Dalek to smash through the painting.

[InsaneTD]

It wouldn't have done much to the Dalek by itself. Combined with the speed it was moving and the way it came out of the art on the other hand...

[Lord Revan]

It wouldn't have done much to the Dalek by itself. Combined with the speed it was moving and the way it came out of the art on the other hand...

not to mention that it might have taken a few hits before the Doctors did anywaything to it.

[Nari]

It wouldn't have done much to the Dalek by itself. Combined with the speed it was moving and the way it came out of the art on the other hand...

not to mention that it might have taken a few hits before the Doctors did anywaything to it.

Agreed but not the point I was trying to make. The sonic screwdriver can pick up a dalek and throw it. Lets assume that the Dalek is damaged and hence the sonic doesn't need to overpower the Dalek's own gravitational controls. The observed action is still applying a non trivial force, that is not being translated back to the Doctor's wrists, unless Daleks have a trivial mass or there's something magical about there being three of them.

Ergo it would stand to reason that the sonic screwdriver could apply a similar force to a person or timelord making Hurt's doctor comments about it not being a weapon kinda pointless as it is kinda an effective weapon.

Seems more to me like another Moffatism that somehow escapes the writers and editor(s) where statements are made but have no real implication (see also: Time, fixed point in). Or someone thought it would be cool to give the Doctor a weapo but its not really a weapon, wink.

[InsaneTD]

Or they could be doing 400 years in 4 seconds again, basically hacking the controls of the battle armour and using it's on gravity drive against it. Thoufh that isn't what it it looks like it is doing, I will admit.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Also, I did like the fact that while it was a story of the Time War and Daleks were involved, it wasn't a Dalek story.

[Enigma]

Or they could be doing 400 years in 4 seconds again, basically hacking the controls of the battle armour and using it's on gravity drive against it. Thoufh that isn't what it it looks like it is doing, I will admit.

Except for the 400 year bit, they may have "hacked" the Dalek, preventing it from resisting their push. The Doctor didn't seem to have much trouble with the Cybus Cybermen with his sonic screwdriver.

[The Romulan Republic]

Finally got to see it. Honestly, if the ABC hadn't put it on 4 separate times, I might have had to work out this download thing.

Meh.

Didn't like the Doctor destroying everything being undone. Yes, he was probably angsting about it too much, but him having done that was one of the few things that gave him a little depth, instead of 2D perfect. I would have preferred them spend perhaps half a series of him coming to terms with it, and then getting on with his life.
Oh well, maybe I'm just not the same Doctor Who fan I used to be.

How could someone with a conscience be okay with committing genocide, much less committing genocide against their own people? Its something that should haunt someone for the rest of their life.

And the Doctor is far from perfect. He can be very ruthless and arrogant. The Doctor had become a very dark character. The Day of the Doctor went a long way to restoring the balance.

[The Romulan Republic]

Also, did anyone else find Clara more likeable than usual in this episode?

[Batman]

I found Clara quite likeable for her entire run so I'm afraid I can't really relate. Why did you find Clara unlikeable before? (And is that even a word?)

[The Romulan Republic]

For one thing, Clara is generic. She's a young human woman from the present who kissed the Doctor and became super human. Its repetitive.

And I don't care for romantic relationships between the Doctor and a companion.

[Batman]

How, exactly, did she become superhuman? She originally was a Dalek who thought she was a young woman, then she was a young woman from the 19th century who died, the only iteration of her that actually is a young woman from the present is her latest one. And I don't recall her doing anything superhuman in that form?

[The Romulan Republic]

Being split into a bunch of people in different times isn't super human?

Regardless, my other criticisms are valid.

[mr friendly guy]

Gallifrey's survival might not turn out to be a good thing. We don't know what condition the planet or its people is in, but most other races couldn't tell the difference between them and the Daleks anymore. I doubt the various species which had suffered due to the war (well, the ones who aren't dead anyways) will be rejoicing when they find out the Time Lords are still around. And speaking of the Daleks, what happens if they become aware that the Gallifrey still exists? Clara might have purged info about the Doctor, but did that include all info about the Timelords? The war might not be over yet...

If the other races lacked the means to defeat the two when they threw everything against each other, I doubt they would be able to pose that big a threat to Gallifrey even if some of them now do have time travel.

[Enigma]

Being split into a bunch of people in different times isn't super human?

Regardless, my other criticisms are valid.

Nope because she survived being split into a million pieces because the Doctor knew she existed in multiple timelines.

[The Romulan Republic]

A deleted scene courtesy of BBC America: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qla8QZWU_QM

Edited: I fixed the link.

[NecronLord]

How could someone with a conscience be okay with committing genocide, much less committing genocide against their own people? Its something that should haunt someone for the rest of their life.

Made worse by the fact that he didn't kill the daleks when he had the chance. In Genesis of the Daleks the Time Lords send him to wipe out the daleks on day one. He's standing outside the incubator, and doesn't do it. (And for once, the human companions are urging him to make with the explosives and genocide, should've listened)

Ultimately, he could have, and chose not to, stopped the daleks, dead, in their creation. And then he had to destroy them anyway, but only after they'd burnt down his world, and others (the Nestene Conciousness' and the Zygons' homeworlds and the Gelth's very bodies) suffered along the way.

That's gotta be even more awful.

[InsaneTD]

That probably goes part way to explaining why he didn't just tell the Zygons to shove off and leave earth alone like he has everyone else.

[Bedlam]

It's interesting that that was their backstory even in classic who when they appeared with Tom Baker. I think its the only time that something that happened prior to Eccleston has been blamed on the time war.

[Crazedwraith]

How could someone with a conscience be okay with committing genocide, much less committing genocide against their own people? Its something that should haunt someone for the rest of their life.

Made worse by the fact that he didn't kill the daleks when he had the chance. In Genesis of the Daleks the Time Lords send him to wipe out the daleks on day one. He's standing outside the incubator, and doesn't do it. (And for once, the human companions are urging him to make with the explosives and genocide, should've listened)

Ultimately, he could have, and chose not to, stopped the daleks, dead, in their creation. And then he had to destroy them anyway, but only after they'd burnt down his world, and others (the Nestene Conciousness' and the Zygons' homeworlds and the Gelth's very bodies) suffered along the way.

That's gotta be even more awful.

Interesting that the show says he could do that though. I mean, he'd fought the Daleks prior to that, so wouldn't wiping them out then so his previous incarnations fought them actually in effect be crossing his own timeline and therefore be bad juju?
Or would the time lords have been able to cope with that at the time?

[Eternal_Freedom]

It was a mission from the Time Lords, they knew full well what kind of paradox that would cause. If they didn't have a plan in place to deal with it (like a ready paradox machine) they'd be incredibly dumb. As for the "crossing his own timeline" bit, well, they were willing to make him do it in order to save themselves in The Three Doctors, and since they predicted the Daleks would annihilate everything else alive this probably goes in the same category of "it's really really serious and totally necessary to save the universe."

[LadyTevar]

How could someone with a conscience be okay with committing genocide, much less committing genocide against their own people? Its something that should haunt someone for the rest of their life.

Made worse by the fact that he didn't kill the daleks when he had the chance. In Genesis of the Daleks the Time Lords send him to wipe out the daleks on day one. He's standing outside the incubator, and doesn't do it. (And for once, the human companions are urging him to make with the explosives and genocide, should've listened)

Ultimately, he could have, and chose not to, stopped the daleks, dead, in their creation. And then he had to destroy them anyway, but only after they'd burnt down his world, and others (the Nestene Conciousness' and the Zygons' homeworlds and the Gelth's very bodies) suffered along the way.

That's gotta be even more awful.

I think it was also to show that The Doctor was *not* like Davros. Remember, when he asked Davros the philosphical question "Would you release a plague you knew would destroy the world?", Davros agreed that he would. Thus, when The Doctor comes to his own not-so-philosphical question "Do I destroy the Daleks? Think of all the good things that did happen, races and species cooperating, medical and technology advances... Dare I lose that...", the Doctor couldn't make that decision.
He was also let off the hook by Davros' forces surrendering. All he accomplished was delaying the Dalek generation for a time.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That's one thing that has always puzzled me about Genesis of the Daleks. When the Doctor aces that choice it's quite clear that blowing up the incubation room will "destroy the Daleks forever." And yet, less than an episode later, he (or rather, a Dalek) do indeed blow up said incubation room, and it goes from "destroyed them forever" to "set them back a thousand years." What caused such a difference I wonder?