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To be fair, it wasn't like he was paid by a booster, even if he got money for selling his own autograph. The NCAA is one of the most hypocritical in all of sports. Its not like he did anything truly "illegal", just against the draconian NCAA rules. The NCAA may have started off with good intentions but as they continue to reap ever more lucrative contracts, and as these school conferences are starting their own lucrative sports networks making billions of dollars off college athletes, the less sympathy I have when they wag their fingers and say "SHAME! SHAME!" when those athletes try to make some money for themselves. But I'm glad the prospect of him making some money from his own labor was enough for you to wish a horrific injury on him and call it "justice".Block wrote:I personally didn't like that he clearly received illegal benefits, was let off by the NCAA for it, only got suspended for a half by his team, and then had the gall to include the "show me the money" motion in a touchdown celebration in his first game back. Someone ending his season with a helmet to the knee before he could earn any more of that money would've been justice.
A lot of the "draft smarts" seemed to poo-poo the move. I'll admit I hadn't heard much prior, but like it more now that I've been able to hear the reasoning behind the pick.Thanas wrote:Well, the 9ers took one of my favorite FS, so we might be starting rams castoff Stewart if we do not get Ed Reynolds or Terrence Brooks.
To be honest, I think this was a major reach on part of the 9ers, taking a guy in the first who was projected as a 2nd rounder. BUT: He was not going to be there in round 2 at the next niner pick and given the many picks the niners got (and they probably can't take that many rookies anyway) I am not upset about it. The niners are not the typical team which has to watch what they spend right now.TheHammer wrote:A lot of the "draft smarts" seemed to poo-poo the move. I'll admit I hadn't heard much prior, but like it more now that I've been able to hear the reasoning behind the pick.Thanas wrote:Well, the 9ers took one of my favorite FS, so we might be starting rams castoff Stewart if we do not get Ed Reynolds or Terrence Brooks.
It seems that a lot of these guys fall into two categories, with some truly special exceptions. Either you get the "athletes" - the guys who play the game because they have natural gifts that lend themselves to it, or the "football players" who may not win the "underwear olympics" and post combine records, but they produce because they are dedicated to the craft. latter seems to be where Ward falls and quite frankly that's fine by me. Those guys tend to have a much better track record of being productive vs being busts.
JL 8/1 - INCIDENT: Arrested 6/29/12 for disorderly conduct (eventually dismissed), failure to identify, and possession of a fake ID (dismissed). On 7/15/13, pled guilty to the misdemeanor charge of failing to properly identify himself (showed a Louisiana ID with a 1990 birth date) after a fight in College Station; reports say he didn't start the fight but was trying to break it up. Paid a $2,000 fine, $232 in court costs, and serve 2 days in jail but received credit for time served after being jailed when initially arrested. On 8/6, he went before a 3-person discipline panel at TXAM that put him on "Conduct Probation" for a semester (Fall 2012) and suspended for the season; he successfully appealed the decision (after Sumlin & Kingsbury went to bat for him) and got the punishment reduced to standard probation, allowing him to play. Comes from a big-money family (oil money) in east TX but played HS ball outside of San Antonio. Source at Manning Camp that knows JM well: nothing but positive things to say, mostly with the vibe of, "he's not doing anything differently than you, I, or anyone else did in college". From the vibe of online articles, father seems a little too involved and overstepping his boundaries. CONCERNS: Off-field behavior/lifestyle
JL 8/22 -Vibe on this guy keeps getting worse. Support staff members are sick of him and ready for him to go. Described as a cocky, me-guy. Loves football, FBI is high as well. Everything has been pretty well-documented in online articles about the kid, but sources say he's a spoiled brat (grandfather gives him allowance, father bought him luxury car). They say he was getting on people's nerves during the '12 season, but it went to another level after the ALUN game. Seems to enjoy putting himself in situations where he knows attention will follow him (TXUN frat party during summer). CONCERNS: Off-field behavior, cockiness, maturity
JL 10/15 - Suspended first half of TXRI game for autograph scandal. Couple of TXTC sources say can't yell/scream at him or he shuts down; has walked away from Kingsbury in the past. Has an avg. work ethic, came to 4 of 32 summer '13 workouts, and quit going to in-season workouts late in '12. Doesn't study the game, said to know about 60% of the offense in '12, never watches film; one source said only time he watched film during '12 was before ALUN. Comes from 'outlaw bloodlines', mom moved the family to Kerrville to get away from father's wild family. Father's family is said to be very shady people, always into something, they are the root of Johnny's personality. 'What you see on TV and how he is portrayed, that's him; but when you talk to him, you'll like him'. Coaches love his tuffs/competes, they want to go to war with him, but 'Johnny will be Johnny' during the week. Knows how to scheme the system, arrogant and full of himself, but he's not smug to coaches. Has been like this since Day 1, has never gone to class, goes to beat of own drum, but has ultimate confidence. Loves the spotlight, football is his release, big games don't scare him. Has size 15 feet and freakishly big hands. Will drink, but no one I spoke with think he's a smoker. Teammates don't dislike him, but there's some resentment, more so in the offseason when he isn't coming to workouts and they are busting their butt. Loner, doesn't hang out with the guys, but very close with WR Mike Evans. Already has money, is used to spotlight, has already been exposed to NFL-level fame. Will never take football seriously enough for our coaching staff, he'll hate meetings, will have to drag him to work out, etc. The definition of the word maintenance. CONCERNS: Maturity, passion for preparation, high-maintenance, work ethic
LOL wow. Some of that he might grow out of. But If he doesn't, and Teddy Bridgewater turns out more like the guy everyone thought would go in the top 5 earlier this year, then it would just be another typical Cleveland thing to happen wouldn't it?Thanas wrote:The scouting reports the Pats had on Manziel has been leaked: http://imgur.com/a/TNubB
Holy crap.
JL 8/1 - INCIDENT: Arrested 6/29/12 for disorderly conduct (eventually dismissed), failure to identify, and possession of a fake ID (dismissed). On 7/15/13, pled guilty to the misdemeanor charge of failing to properly identify himself (showed a Louisiana ID with a 1990 birth date) after a fight in College Station; reports say he didn't start the fight but was trying to break it up. Paid a $2,000 fine, $232 in court costs, and serve 2 days in jail but received credit for time served after being jailed when initially arrested. On 8/6, he went before a 3-person discipline panel at TXAM that put him on "Conduct Probation" for a semester (Fall 2012) and suspended for the season; he successfully appealed the decision (after Sumlin & Kingsbury went to bat for him) and got the punishment reduced to standard probation, allowing him to play. Comes from a big-money family (oil money) in east TX but played HS ball outside of San Antonio. Source at Manning Camp that knows JM well: nothing but positive things to say, mostly with the vibe of, "he's not doing anything differently than you, I, or anyone else did in college". From the vibe of online articles, father seems a little too involved and overstepping his boundaries. CONCERNS: Off-field behavior/lifestyle
JL 8/22 -Vibe on this guy keeps getting worse. Support staff members are sick of him and ready for him to go. Described as a cocky, me-guy. Loves football, FBI is high as well. Everything has been pretty well-documented in online articles about the kid, but sources say he's a spoiled brat (grandfather gives him allowance, father bought him luxury car). They say he was getting on people's nerves during the '12 season, but it went to another level after the ALUN game. Seems to enjoy putting himself in situations where he knows attention will follow him (TXUN frat party during summer). CONCERNS: Off-field behavior, cockiness, maturity
JL 10/15 - Suspended first half of TXRI game for autograph scandal. Couple of TXTC sources say can't yell/scream at him or he shuts down; has walked away from Kingsbury in the past. Has an avg. work ethic, came to 4 of 32 summer '13 workouts, and quit going to in-season workouts late in '12. Doesn't study the game, said to know about 60% of the offense in '12, never watches film; one source said only time he watched film during '12 was before ALUN. Comes from 'outlaw bloodlines', mom moved the family to Kerrville to get away from father's wild family. Father's family is said to be very shady people, always into something, they are the root of Johnny's personality. 'What you see on TV and how he is portrayed, that's him; but when you talk to him, you'll like him'. Coaches love his tuffs/competes, they want to go to war with him, but 'Johnny will be Johnny' during the week. Knows how to scheme the system, arrogant and full of himself, but he's not smug to coaches. Has been like this since Day 1, has never gone to class, goes to beat of own drum, but has ultimate confidence. Loves the spotlight, football is his release, big games don't scare him. Has size 15 feet and freakishly big hands. Will drink, but no one I spoke with think he's a smoker. Teammates don't dislike him, but there's some resentment, more so in the offseason when he isn't coming to workouts and they are busting their butt. Loner, doesn't hang out with the guys, but very close with WR Mike Evans. Already has money, is used to spotlight, has already been exposed to NFL-level fame. Will never take football seriously enough for our coaching staff, he'll hate meetings, will have to drag him to work out, etc. The definition of the word maintenance. CONCERNS: Maturity, passion for preparation, high-maintenance, work ethic
It may have been a reach, but in the 30 range pick you're more or less at the second round talent most years anyway. I guess the main question is who else would they have taken? Not sure any of the remaining "first round" talent would have been a fit.Thanas wrote: To be honest, I think this was a major reach on part of the 9ers, taking a guy in the first who was projected as a 2nd rounder. BUT: He was not going to be there in round 2 at the next niner pick and given the many picks the niners got (and they probably can't take that many rookies anyway) I am not upset about it. The niners are not the typical team which has to watch what they spend right now.
I don't care who he was paid by, although one of the guys who paid him is in fact associated with the school. The NCAA hammered the shit out of USC for an agent paying a player to leave early and told them that they "should have known" and that "high profile players require high level supervision." It bothers the hell out of me that they were the only team in the last 10 years to receive any real punishment when they were actually hurt by the involvement of money rather than helped like all these SEC teams. Auburn, Alabama, Oregon, Miami, Ohio State and LSU at the very least should all be serving 3 year bowl bans by the standards set in the USC case.TheHammer wrote:To be fair, it wasn't like he was paid by a booster, even if he got money for selling his own autograph. The NCAA is one of the most hypocritical in all of sports. Its not like he did anything truly "illegal", just against the draconian NCAA rules. The NCAA may have started off with good intentions but as they continue to reap ever more lucrative contracts, and as these school conferences are starting their own lucrative sports networks making billions of dollars off college athletes, the less sympathy I have when they wag their fingers and say "SHAME! SHAME!" when those athletes try to make some money for themselves. But I'm glad the prospect of him making some money from his own labor was enough for you to wish a horrific injury on him and call it "justice".Block wrote:I personally didn't like that he clearly received illegal benefits, was let off by the NCAA for it, only got suspended for a half by his team, and then had the gall to include the "show me the money" motion in a touchdown celebration in his first game back. Someone ending his season with a helmet to the knee before he could earn any more of that money would've been justice.
Sounds like your real beef is with the NCAA.Block wrote:I don't care who he was paid by, although one of the guys who paid him is in fact associated with the school. The NCAA hammered the shit out of USC for an agent paying a player to leave early and told them that they "should have known" and that "high profile players require high level supervision." It bothers the hell out of me that they were the only team in the last 10 years to receive any real punishment when they were actually hurt by the involvement of money rather than helped like all these SEC teams. Auburn, Alabama, Oregon, Miami, Ohio State and LSU at the very least should all be serving 3 year bowl bans by the standards set in the USC case.TheHammer wrote:To be fair, it wasn't like he was paid by a booster, even if he got money for selling his own autograph. The NCAA is one of the most hypocritical in all of sports. Its not like he did anything truly "illegal", just against the draconian NCAA rules. The NCAA may have started off with good intentions but as they continue to reap ever more lucrative contracts, and as these school conferences are starting their own lucrative sports networks making billions of dollars off college athletes, the less sympathy I have when they wag their fingers and say "SHAME! SHAME!" when those athletes try to make some money for themselves. But I'm glad the prospect of him making some money from his own labor was enough for you to wish a horrific injury on him and call it "justice".Block wrote:I personally didn't like that he clearly received illegal benefits, was let off by the NCAA for it, only got suspended for a half by his team, and then had the gall to include the "show me the money" motion in a touchdown celebration in his first game back. Someone ending his season with a helmet to the knee before he could earn any more of that money would've been justice.