Orcish fantasy world invades modern Japan

[Bernkastel]

Well, of course. Garages are really powerful, especially against living things.

[Tribble]

Our consensus so far seems to be:

A) the Orks are going to get slaughtered, as not only are they vastly outnumbered their weapons and tactics are no match for modern forces. We are also able to invade their realm and conquer it if we wish since the portal works both ways.

B) Technically speaking you have set up the Ork civilization in such a way that there is no resource gathering or food cultivation, since all the Orks are military, and the "Dwarves" only produce things for their war machine. We don't even have to kill them all as their civilization should collapse on its own once they fail to pillage our resources.

C) The "Dwarves" aka "Mindless Automatons created for this Scenario specifically so that the Orcs can ignore some Logistics" are highly unlikely to be able to produce modern vehicles / aircraft even with blueprints. They have to have a much better grasp of the science and engineering involved than just what the materials are made out of.

D) Even if the "Dwarves" are successful at producing such things, it's not going to matter because the Orks won't know how to use them.

E) Given their abilities the "Dwarves" should be able to slaughter the Orks easily. The only reason why they haven't done so yet must be because they were artificially created because "give up and/or kill yourself when threatened" is generally not a very good survival tactic for a species, evolutionarily speaking.



Archinist, do you have anything to say about these points so far? Or are you going to concede that the Orks have no chance of winning this?

[bilateralrope]

B) Technically speaking you have set up the Ork civilization in such a way that there is no resource gathering or food cultivation, since all the Orks are military, and the "Dwarves" only produce things for their war machine. We don't even have to kill them all as their civilization should collapse on its own once they fail to pillage our resources.

Unless they pillage someone else. Earth isn't the only destination in their "portal console's archives". Earth isn't even going to be their first loss:

and instead fought another world filled with tough demons and strange flying birds with powerful bronze-age weaponry. This was a great fight for them, and although they almost lost the portal territory to their homeland, they enjoyed it very much because they were orcs.

Their civilisation can only have survived so long if there are other civilisations out there that they can pillage for food. So their civilisation will survive unless someone denies them access to their side of the portal.


Now I'm just imagining some other civilisation that's been attacked by Orcs before figuring out how to open their portal. So they gear up to invade the Orc homelands before the Orcs strike them again. Only to get rather confused when they find that humans have already dealt with the Orcs. Or die horribly if humans have just lobbed persistent chemical weapons through the portal to keep the Orcs away from it.

[Lord Revan]

the problem with many if not all of Anarchist's "what if" scenarios are the narative devices like the "dwarves" here, that are blatantly there to limit the scenario to the outcomes the author wants to happen, quite literally there's nothing to discuss here as things are artificially forced to go a certain path with no alternatives allowed.

In a well writen game/novel/book/what ever... the writers will either try avoid things happening due to "author's fiat" meaning something happening because the plot needs to go certain way and even if they think they're forced to do that they'll try to disguise that (whether they're successful is another matter). Anarchist on the other hand pulls "author's fiat" the moment things start to go into direction he doesn't want them to go and does it with any real attempt (probably due to his inexperience) to disguise the fact.

[Simon_Jester]

It's staggering how much less annoying this would be if he'd just be honest about what he wants and why.

[Batman]

That would require him to know what he wants and why.

[Jub]

That would require him to know what he wants and why.

This.

People like Archinist aren't usually the introspective sort. I mean, he doesn't even put ten seconds of thought into his scenarios and we're sitting here expecting him to have thought about what he wants and why? I don't see it, and unless we're willing to wait years for him to mature, assuming that he is a child and not a severally impaired adult, we shouldn't expect his behavior to change anytime soon.

[Lord Revan]

That would require him to know what he wants and why.

This.

People like Archinist aren't usually the introspective sort. I mean, he doesn't even put ten seconds of thought into his scenarios and we're sitting here expecting him to have thought about what he wants and why? I don't see it, and unless we're willing to wait years for him to mature, assuming that he is a child and not a severally impaired adult, we shouldn't expect his behavior to change anytime soon.

True enough but at same time we shouldn't be forced to tolerate his threads simply because it'll take years to see any signifigant improvement. After all if he is a poorly raised adult it's gonna take even longer due to firmly placed beliefs of his own superiorty no matter how false those beliefs are.

We can try to teach him to be better even if we know that it's gonna take a while, or give up.

[Jub]

True enough but at same time we shouldn't be forced to tolerate his threads simply because it'll take years to see any signifigant improvement. After all if he is a poorly raised adult it's gonna take even longer due to firmly placed beliefs of his own superiorty no matter how false those beliefs are.

We can try to teach him to be better even if we know that it's gonna take a while, or give up.

He's not changing, his threads spam up the boards, and he has a nasty habit of walking away from threads without bothering to answer the questions asked of him. If the rest of us suddenly started acting this way, we'd be in some serious trouble with the mods, so why give this moron a pass?

[Tribble]

True enough but at same time we shouldn't be forced to tolerate his threads simply because it'll take years to see any signifigant improvement. After all if he is a poorly raised adult it's gonna take even longer due to firmly placed beliefs of his own superiorty no matter how false those beliefs are.

We can try to teach him to be better even if we know that it's gonna take a while, or give up.

He's not changing, his threads spam up the boards, and he has a nasty habit of walking away from threads without bothering to answer the questions asked of him. If the rest of us suddenly started acting this way, we'd be in some serious trouble with the mods, so why give this moron a pass?

Because every village needs its Idiot and Archinist seems happy playing the role. After all, our mandate is "Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people" ... Where would we be without people like Archinist, whose ridiculous postings give us plenty of stupid to play with? You have to admit he is doing a wonderful job at riling people up - whether he's trolling or legitimately that stupid/naive, he is drawing in the crowds. You have to give him an A for effort there.

[Jub]

Because every village needs its Idiot and Archinist seems happy playing the role. After all, our mandate is "Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people" ... Where would we be without people like Archinist, whose ridiculous postings give us plenty of stupid to play with? You have to admit he is doing a wonderful job at riling people up - whether he's trolling or legitimately that stupid/naive, he is drawing in the crowds. You have to give him an A for effort there.

I'd rather have Shep, Shroom, or Stark back if we're looking for entertainment, Archi is a third stringer at best.

[Lord Revan]

Because every village needs its Idiot and Archinist seems happy playing the role. After all, our mandate is "Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people" ... Where would we be without people like Archinist, whose ridiculous postings give us plenty of stupid to play with? You have to admit he is doing a wonderful job at riling people up - whether he's trolling or legitimately that stupid/naive, he is drawing in the crowds. You have to give him an A for effort there.

I'd rather have Shep, Shroom, or Stark back if we're looking for entertainment, Archi is a third stringer at best.

true enough but beggars can't be choosers.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Okay, coming in late, but here goes.

These Posleen from a magical alternate universe managed to acquire their universe's equivalent of Indowy. Naturally, these alternate universe Indowy use a magic-based equivalent of the magical nanofabricaton employed by their technological equivalents.

So what tactics could these technologically backward Posleen use to gain a --ridiculously short-lived-- stranglehold on Japan? Given that the JSDF folks would likely take some time to mobilize and mount more than an initial, desultory defense that should consist of blasting all detectable masses of invaders into giblets from the air, our Posleen/orcs should be able to get up to all kinds of mischief before being put down. Simply swarming out to swamp as many nearby towns and/or cities as possible would actually be a potentially useful tactic. How does one winkle an army of occupation, even a ridiculously underpowered one, out of its hidey-holes if it is occupying urban areas and is using the local populace as literal human shields? These fellows probably would not be above wearing infants as protective hats, or strapping children to their chests as breastplate reinforcements. Or they set up mantlets with adults tied or nailed to them and push these ahead of their formations, while waving standards adorned with more captives above their formations.

An important question: If these magitech Indowy are able to magically extract information from blueprints that patently don't have such information, could they potentially do the same with something like the concept art books for "Ghost in the Shell" or other manga series, and actually turn the concepts into working machines? Or what about a Japanese copy of one of the "Star Wars: Incredible Cross-Sections" books? Suddenly you could have bronze age crazies wearing power armor, stompting around in AT-ATs, or trying to figure out how to squeeze their Indowy/dwarf-built Death Star copy through an interdimensional portal.

[Simon_Jester]

I look forward to Archinist, God help him, taking you seriously.

That said, highly blatant use of human shields combined with being a homicidal savage towards everyone you aren't personally using as a shield is a great way to break down an enemy's willingness to be restrained for the sake of your human shields. People will start telling themselves "if they've been captured by the bad guys they're as good as dead anyway."

[Tribble]

So what tactics could these technologically backward Posleen use to gain a --ridiculously short-lived-- stranglehold on Japan? Given that the JSDF folks would likely take some time to mobilize and mount more than an initial, desultory defense that should consist of blasting all detectable masses of invaders into giblets from the air, our Posleen/orcs should be able to get up to all kinds of mischief before being put down. Simply swarming out to swamp as many nearby towns and/or cities as possible would actually be a potentially useful tactic. How does one winkle an army of occupation, even a ridiculously underpowered one, out of its hidey-holes if it is occupying urban areas and is using the local populace as literal human shields? These fellows probably would not be above wearing infants as protective hats, or strapping children to their chests as breastplate reinforcements. Or they set up mantlets with adults tied or nailed to them and push these ahead of their formations, while waving standards adorned with more captives above their formations.

The problem with those tactics is that they could backfire - rather than deter the world from attacking, the Orks could just be demonstrating why they need to be put down now, regardless of collateral damage.

An important question: If these magitech Indowy are able to magically extract information from blueprints that patently don't have such information, could they potentially do the same with something like the concept art books for "Ghost in the Shell" or other manga series, and actually turn the concepts into working machines? Or what about a Japanese copy of one of the "Star Wars: Incredible Cross-Sections" books? Suddenly you could have bronze age crazies wearing power armor, stompting around in AT-ATs, or trying to figure out how to squeeze their Indowy/dwarf-built Death Star copy through an interdimensional portal.

It was pointed out in previous posts why they couldn't do that with real blueprints, let alone fictional ones. And in any event we don't have the kind of exotic sci-fi materials that would be required. Even if they somehow managed o get complete knowledge and understanding of how SW tech works and how to build it (which they wouldn't), they wouldn't have anything to work with. Even Archinist's "Dwarves" cannot create something from nothing.



Speaking of Archinist, he hasn't posted anything in a while. Can we consider him to have conceded that his ork invasion will ultimately result in a big pile of dead orks?

[Patrick Ogaard]

I look forward to Archinist, God help him, taking you seriously.

That said, highly blatant use of human shields combined with being a homicidal savage towards everyone you aren't personally using as a shield is a great way to break down an enemy's willingness to be restrained for the sake of your human shields. People will start telling themselves "if they've been captured by the bad guys they're as good as dead anyway."

Taking my little exercise of at least three -- but no more than five -- neurons at all seriously might be somewhat inadvisable.

The time-limited nature of the possible success of the approach is, of course, inevitable. In skilled hands, such a scenario could be a gripping drama plumbing the very depths of human ethics and morality, speluning through the deepest, darkest corners of the human soul. ...or Archinist could write it and the JSDF troops go insane at the sight and shoot each other instead of the orcs, or just go home for a nap.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah, well, since there's no realistic chance of Archinist actually bothering to read and think over and learn anything from anything we do, I can at least get some intellectual stimulation by discussing other topics. In this case, the limitations of human shields, and why the laws of war are what they are and ban what they ban. Because like a lot of 'ruthless but effective' tactics, use of human shields stops being effective as soon as the enemy figures out that you're doing it systematically against them.

[Patrick Ogaard]

It was pointed out in previous posts why they couldn't do that with real blueprints, let alone fictional ones. And in any event we don't have the kind of exotic sci-fi materials that would be required. Even if they somehow managed o get complete knowledge and understanding of how SW tech works and how to build it (which they wouldn't), they wouldn't have anything to work with. Even Archinist's "Dwarves" cannot create something from nothing.

Well, sure, if you bring logic and plausiblity into this conversation, that's certainly true. But since the dwarves can supposedly achieve just such flat-out impossibilities...

Simply visualize a great and wise dwarf artificer, complete with spangled velvet cape and suitably showy turban. A great burly orc steps up to the dais upon which the artificer sits, and with a great belly-laugh and a dramatic flourish, the orc hands a lavishly illustrated but strangely thin book to the artificer. Meanwhile, in the foreground, more orcs laden with loot begin to form great piles of random bric-a-brac before the dais while eager dwarf sub-artificers on stone bleachers to either side of the dais look on eagerly.

The artificer touches the book to his forehead, looks up with solemn thoughtfulness, and says, "The world's biggest pinata." He then opens the book, and in flawless Esperanto, which due to transdimensional licensing issues is rendered as rather plain English, and reads: "The Death Star."

The orc guffaws appreciatively. "You are right, dwarf!"

What follows then is the traditional parallel universe dwarven ritual of feedstock production and 3D printing. The sub-artificers, under the mental control of the wise artificer, descend upon the hapless and blameless piles of piled up junk procured by the orcs. Within seconds, the mass of junk is gone, disappeared between the all-consuming jaws of the sub-artificers. Then, to the tune of a mental music unheard by any but the dwarves, and directed by the wise artificer, the dwarves divide up into trios and some begin depositing thin films of durasteel on the flagstones of the arena, raising the patterns ever higher with each pass. Other trios gather around the edges, carefully squatting in coordinated triple pliés, and soon there are great piles of light sabres, E-250 blasters, wildly whistling MSE droids and such. Such is the magical miracle of 3-Dwarf-Printing.

[bilateralrope]

It was pointed out in previous posts why they couldn't do that with real blueprints, let alone fictional ones. And in any event we don't have the kind of exotic sci-fi materials that would be required. Even if they somehow managed o get complete knowledge and understanding of how SW tech works and how to build it (which they wouldn't), they wouldn't have anything to work with. Even Archinist's "Dwarves" cannot create something from nothing.

Unless the dwarves have access to knowledge that they aren't sharing with the Orcs. Knowledge that would let them fill in the gaps.

Which leads into speculation about why the dwarves are holding back information. Which doesn't look good for the orcs.

[Tribble]

It was pointed out in previous posts why they couldn't do that with real blueprints, let alone fictional ones. And in any event we don't have the kind of exotic sci-fi materials that would be required. Even if they somehow managed o get complete knowledge and understanding of how SW tech works and how to build it (which they wouldn't), they wouldn't have anything to work with. Even Archinist's "Dwarves" cannot create something from nothing.

Unless the dwarves have access to knowledge that they aren't sharing with the Orcs. Knowledge that would let them fill in the gaps.

Which leads into speculation about why the dwarves are holding back information. Which doesn't look good for the orcs.

IMO there is nothing in the OP to suggest that, and it would be a pretty massive ass-pull even by this scenarios standards. Besides which, even Archinist back-pedalled and stated that building something as advanced as the Enterprise by just looking at our fictional material is beyond their capabilities.

[FaxModem1]

Looking at the OP. Kudos to Archinist for improving. I think this is your best thread yet.

Couple of questions, what is the reproduction rate and life expectancy of an orc, barring the occasional axe in the skull or other non natural causes? Are they the same ones who participated(er, survived) in the previous wars, or is this an oral or written tradition, that is a huge part of their culture and passed down and followed blindly?

Because I'm very curious about one war only every 400 years.

[Archinist]

Looking at the OP. Kudos to Archinist for improving. I think this is your best thread yet.

Couple of questions, what is the reproduction rate and life expectancy of an orc, barring the occasional axe in the skull or other non natural causes? Are they the same ones who participated(er, survived) in the previous wars, or is this an oral or written tradition, that is a huge part of their culture and passed down and followed blindly?

Because I'm very curious about one war only every 400 years.

Okay, so I will give a proper reply later. It's just that I usually lose interest in particular threads after a while.

They live for about 30 or 40 years, and frequently raid other worlds for fun and resources. They have raided other worlds within that 400 years period, but for some reason want to end earth now. I think the reason is supposed to be because humans, dwarves and orcs were all friends or something, but then there was a big war and things fell apart, all 3 species were wiped out almost completely, humans retreated to earth, dwarves and orcs were sealed away by elves which I made up, elves died from lack of nutrition and disease at hands of humans, and orcs made dwarves slaves in Orc Town over there.

[Tribble]

Okay, so I will give a proper reply later. It's just that I usually lose interest in particular threads after a while.

Or in other words, after your scenarios get shredded and you don't have any real responses to make. I note that you have yet to post anything refuting the arguments being made that the orks will lose. Do you have anything to add to that, or do you concede the point?

They live for about 30 or 40 years, and frequently raid other worlds for fun and resources. They have raided other worlds within that 400 years period, but for some reason want to end earth now. I think the reason is supposed to be because humans, dwarves and orcs were all friends or something, but then there was a big war and things fell apart, all 3 species were wiped out almost completely, humans retreated to earth, dwarves and orcs were sealed away by elves which I made up, elves died from lack of nutrition and disease at hands of humans, and orcs made dwarves slaves in Orc Town over there.

Archinist Scenarios in a nutshell. What else needs to be said?

[Simon_Jester]

Archinist, are you making this scenario up, or are you trying to report something someone else made up?

[Lord Revan]

Archinist, are you making this scenario up, or are you trying to report something someone else made up?

Simon you seen this elsewhere or is this just a feeling you're getting?