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Nanites would be destroyed during reentry. Ram pressure would produce sufficient heat to destroy the components. Maybe not the structure of the nanite, but certainly the functioning bits.

Many meteorites you see in the sky are little bigger then a grain of SAND and yet can light up a good portion of the sky.

Mutant Headcrab wrote:

Raxmei wrote: The Borg Queen *vomit* is dead, so they shouldn't be acting normally. It'd either be braindead robots or something like the Borg Cooperative.

Not necesarily. Remember, these Borg are in the past, before the Queen was "killed." (I use quotation marks, because I myself have not seen any evidence shes dead for good.) They more than likely are connected to the collective of that time frame. That would be just another blow to continuity, because it would point out the Earth to the Borg many, many years earlier than they are supposed to.

I have always been of the opinion that the Borg "queen" exisits as long as any borg exist...ie: She is the collective given form

I've just taken a look at the sphere explosion in FC. Actually serveral large pieces of the hull survive the explosion.

NecronLord wrote:I've just taken a look at the sphere explosion in FC. Actually serveral large pieces of the hull survive the explosion.

Thanks for taking a look, Necron. I was going to do this but I am simply wasted at this point...the Almighty Stiff-Legged Deadlift always leaves me a mess.

I saw the episode. It was pretty good for ENT. So far they have a handful of decent to good episodes. I have liked:

the premiere
"Silent Enemy"
"Dead Stop"
the second episode, with the space vampires piloting the Breen-like ship
"Carbon Creek"
"Minefield"
the episode with the Vulcans, Tholians, and Suliban
the episode with J.G. Hertzler and the Klingons (just okay)

and "A Night In Sickbay."

HA! GOTCHA!

I might've enjoyed a few others but those are the only stand-outs. That's just over a half-dozen of...how many episodes now? Coming up on 50+?

That's only about ~10%, since I would probably shave a couple of those off the list when it came time to talk about REALLY decent entertainment. Ugh. Maybe better than VGR's first two years at best.

NecronLord wrote:I've just taken a look at the sphere explosion in FC. Actually serveral large pieces of the hull survive the explosion.

Ok so now we have a confirmed "Columbia" situation. Anything living on these peices will be instantally incinerated!

Isolder74 wrote:

NecronLord wrote:I've just taken a look at the sphere explosion in FC. Actually serveral large pieces of the hull survive the explosion.

Ok so now we have a confirmed "Columbia" situation. Anything living on these peices will be instantally incinerated!

Well obviously for whatever reason it didn't happen, just put it down to Borg technology, after all it isn't like trek tech even notices physical laws let alone obeys them.

Isolder74 wrote:

NecronLord wrote:I've just taken a look at the sphere explosion in FC. Actually serveral large pieces of the hull survive the explosion.

Ok so now we have a confirmed "Columbia" situation. Anything living on these peices will be instantally incinerated!

I think you are really underestimating Borg nanotechnology

Hmm. I remember that article. I'll see if I can find it.

Ok here we go.

First.
How did they surive.

[quote=The Washington Post]The locker broke apart as the shuttle disintegrated, scattering the containers, but it may have protected them for much of the descent, officials said[/quote]

The problem with the Sphere Pieces compared to the Columbia is while the Columbia had already transversed much of the time of re-entry the Sphere pieces are in orbit before they even start their desent into the Atmospere. The pieces and their contents would have to pass through the hottest portion of re-entry(initially entering the atmospere). I doubt that the worms would have survived if they had been left on Mir as it made its unpowered desent!

Not to mention a crucial difference:

Columbia was making a controlled descent and broke up when her trajectory deviated from the nominal approach path.

Any wreckage or debris from the sphere would be making a ballistic reentry the same as any meteors or meteorites -- and subject to much greater aerodynamic heating and stresses.

Could what did survive have survived due to being near the centre of the craft and having most of the exterior ablate away? I haven't (and don't plan on) seen the episode so this may be contradicted by on-screen info; I just wanted to throw out another 'possible' explanation.

Isolder74 wrote:

Icehawk wrote:Im no trekkie but for continuity purposes could it not be possible that the nano probes survived reentry and then somehow found a host on earth?

No, They would be the first thing that would melt because they are so small. The Chance of any living thing surviving those temperatures is so small that only one species of bacteria could even possibly survive is one that is adapted for life in volcanic vents. The Heat of Re-entry would incinterate both the drones and the vaunted nanoprobe with them leaving only small pieces of slab reaching the surface. Also the sphere was destroyed over Montana the pieces would fall to the west of there not to the north!

In ST, some bioweapons can surive reentry. Prehaps they simply drifted down very slowly or were protected by a chunck of debris. Also, it could have hit a small space body in orbit and difted down with it. It is even possible that a small craft could have been launched and simply failed to make it. Bad, really bad navigation could have sent tham way of course and forced them to lock on to the debris field, but just had too much damage to make it in in one peice.

I doubt most of these seriously, but knowing the Borg, I wouldn't put any of them above the writers.

Please tell me why these bioweapons detonated in space instead of an airburst.

I did not see the episode but there have been examples of Borgs beaming onbaord federation ships and later being destroyed. If the Nanites can sit there for years and then take over the ship or the crew, should they have not already shown this ability?

Re: the ent. borg ep. This is what I posted over at SB, and sums it up for me completely.

"*powers up flame shields* IMO the episode was okay at best, but all in all pretty pathetic. Uber phase pistols of doom, and Phlox's miracle anti-Borg radiation = utter shite. Those aren't minor flaws, they're a massive fubar. I refuse to believe that 22nd pre-fed tech is somehow superior, or that they have superior resources to 24th century feds. Oh yeah, and that no one else could have ever thought to use radiation on nanoprobes, because only someone from the 22nd century could think of that...Whisky Tango Foxtrot?!?! I'd say it was an un-needed episode that added absolutely nothing of value..."

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I hate this ep. I know ST tends to stretch things in general, but I'm pretty forgiving. If I hate something this much, you know you've done a piece of shit job.

By the way, if anyone hasn't been able to see Regeneration yet, it has just been posted (as a RAR-archived MPEG) on alt.binaries.startrek.vcd-only by TMA. You'll want to download it relatively quickly before your newsserver deletes it, however.

I think some of you guys are reading a it too much into this ep.

First: The nanoBrobes could have survived because we don't know what they are made of.

second: The Borg could have survived by being somewhere in the center of the ship and as it burned up and disentigrated the borg fell out the ship as it hit the ground, they were buried in the ice afterall.

Third: The radiation might only work on Phlox at least his race,he was the only one that had the procedure done.

Fourth: Kirk might have known about them, what purpose was it in any of his time to mention them since they were 200 years from reaching Earth or Federation Space, besides Howmany Goverments do you know tell all they knw about something Dangerous or Deadly to the public. They did after all have a Science team working on Intel on them thats why 7 of 9's family was out there investigating them and how they knew about them before Picard and the Enterprise-D first saw them. (Non Cannon) "The Weapon Kirk fought in "The Doomsday Machine" was said in a Novel called "Ventetta" it ws created to fight the Borg. I know until it's said on screen it's not CANNON but that might be what B&B might have been aiming at.

Fifth: The Deflector dish was only powering up they did not transmit anything by the time Worf Blew it to hell. I think it was great way to explain why the Borg made thier first appearance in "The Neutral Zone" Instead of just being there. ( Remember the holes where the Fed and Romulan out posts used to be.)

Thank you, just my two cents.

Batman002 wrote:I think some of you guys are reading a it too much into this ep.

I agree, but only a little. There are large inconsistencies.

Batman002 wrote:First: The nanoBrobes could have survived because we don't know what they are made of.

Considering their size, and possible composition, I would agree with this. I'm no physics OR chemistry expert, but there's no way of deciding this without knowing the exact composition and melting point of the material in question, right?

Batman002 wrote:second: The Borg could have survived by being somewhere in the center of the ship and as it burned up and disentigrated the borg fell out the ship as it hit the ground, they were buried in the ice afterall.

From what I saw they were still "within" the ship, or what was left of it. The wreckage was all around them and possibly underneath too. So I think it's possible they were deep inside the ship, but we'll never know.

Batman002 wrote:Third: The radiation might only work on Phlox at least his race,he was the only one that had the procedure done.

The radiation wasn't supposed to affect Phlox, that was an undesirable consequence. Phlox said the radiation was supposed to disrupt the actual functioning of the nanoprobes, so it should work for all species.

Batman002 wrote:Fourth: Kirk might have known about them, what purpose was it in any of his time to mention them since they were 200 years from reaching Earth or Federation Space, besides Howmany Goverments do you know tell all they knw about something Dangerous or Deadly to the public. They did after all have a Science team working on Intel on them thats why 7 of 9's family was out there investigating them and how they knew about them before Picard and the Enterprise-D first saw them. (Non Cannon) "The Weapon Kirk fought in "The Doomsday Machine" was said in a Novel called "Ventetta" it ws created to fight the Borg. I know until it's said on screen it's not CANNON but that might be what B&B might have been aiming at.

Okay, Kirk, fuck knows. The Hansens (Seven's family) were independent researchers, right? As for Picard, he should've known if Archer did, they speculated that the "invasion" was coming "sometime in the 24th Century" so I would've expected captains of the 24th Century to be educated about them, classified or not.

Batman002 wrote:Fifth: The Deflector dish was only powering up they did not transmit anything by the time Worf Blew it to hell. I think it was great way to explain why the Borg made thier first appearance in "The Neutral Zone" Instead of just being there. ( Remember the holes where the Fed and Romulan out posts used to be.)

Someone, including me, already said this.

Batman002 wrote:Thank you, just my two cents.

And mine.

Okay, my problem with the drones surviving is this. You're in a ship that has just been blown to hell...you're on an uncontrolled entry into the atmosphere with ground impact shortly after that. I have no idea what speed they would be travelling, because I don't know about that stuff. But suffice it to say, I'm pretty damn sure anything humanoid is fubared...

Batman002 wrote:First: The nanoBrobes could have survived because we don't know what they are made of.

Even if by some miracle the Borg nanoprobes did survive, the rest of the Borg would not. After all, they cannot live without their biological pieces parts and unpowered entry into the atmosphere combined with slamming into the ground at orbital speeds would quite thoroughly destroy their biological parts.

Besides, the "we don't know!" cop out doesn't fly here. There is a remote possiblity that they could be made of ubertanium that even a small quantity of it could survive intact even when exposed to thousands of degree heat, but chances are they aren't. Besides, the nanoprobes were destroyed by radiation that didn't even serious harm a flesh and blood humanoid, what the hell do you think superheated ionized gas that needs heavy ceramic shielding to prevent it from vaporizing your shuttle is going to do to them.

second: The Borg could have survived by being somewhere in the center of the ship and as it burned up and disentigrated the borg fell out the ship as it hit the ground, they were buried in the ice afterall.

Ah, so inertia need not apply? Tell me what slamming into the ground at orbital speeds would do to someone. Besides, the Borg were out in the open, they weren't in any containers that would protect them from superheated ionized gas that you get with entry into the atmosphere.

Third: The radiation might only work on Phlox at least his race,he was the only one that had the procedure done.

Ah, because we know that radiation cares what species something is right? Phlox is made of flesh and blood like anything else, to the point that they can eat and draw nutrition from all the same foods as humans. There is no reason why radiation should effect him any different. It wasn't so high powered a dose that it seriously hurt him, as he was walking and talking and on the job that day.

Gil Hamilton Wrote:

Even if by some miracle the Borg nanoprobes did survive, the rest of the Borg would not. After all, they cannot live without their biological pieces parts and unpowered entry into the atmosphere combined with slamming into the ground at orbital speeds would quite thoroughly destroy their biological parts.

We have know idea how or where they were when they hit, they might have been protected some how, besides they looked pretty fucked up to me and the scientists said they were regenerating.

Besides, the "we don't know!" cop out doesn't fly here. There is a remote possiblity that they could be made of ubertanium that even a small quantity of it could survive intact even when exposed to thousands of degree heat, but chances are they aren't. Besides, the nanoprobes were destroyed by radiation that didn't even serious harm a flesh and blood humanoid, what the hell do you think superheated ionized gas that needs heavy ceramic shielding to prevent it from vaporizing your shuttle is going to do to them.

Thearitical Science is basically saying "WE DON'T KNOW" That is after all what this debate is, and since we Don't know ( cop out or not ) they could be made of material that was unaffected. The radiation that destroyed the nanobobes were directed at them directly, besides they could simply be shut down and not destroyed. There could be materials that aren't found here on Earth.

Ah, so inertia need not apply? Tell me what slamming into the ground at orbital speeds would do to someone. Besides, the Borg were out in the open, they weren't in any containers that would protect them from superheated ionized gas that you get with entry into the atmosphere.

perhalps thier personalshields protected them from most of the heat and radiation and as well as the impact, the version of the movie I saw never showed them alive or dead or deactivated.

Ah, because we know that radiation cares what species something is right? Phlox is made of flesh and blood like anything else, to the point that they can eat and draw nutrition from all the same foods as humans. There is no reason why radiation should effect him any different. It wasn't so high powered a dose that it seriously hurt him, as he was walking and talking and on the job that day.

I didn't say that, phlox was is a humanoid not human. The same dose might kill a person from Earth, besides he was suposed to be in bed.