StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Stravo wrote:Personally I don't foresee why a Galactic Civilization would need to resort to Conscription. Even if only 1%, HELL, say .5% of the population volunteered that would be an ENORMOUS militray machine one way or the other. I think its a brainbug related to the Cold War when all the Commmunist dictatorships were conscripting from their populations as the USSR and China does and do.

With an increase in space and territories to govern, a proportionate increase in neccessity in troops would be assumed.

Just because .5% of the population is a huge number, doesn't mean .5% is enough manpower to maintain an iron fist on a galaxy. A galaxy is a big place. Especially with 50 million worlds and countless stations and uncharted colonies and millions of patrol duties, etc.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:With an increase in space and territories to govern, a proportionate increase in neccessity in troops would be assumed.

Just because .5% of the population is a huge number, doesn't mean .5% is enough manpower to maintain an iron fist on a galaxy. A galaxy is a big place. Especially with 50 million worlds and countless stations and uncharted colonies and millions of patrol duties, etc.

True, but it is absolutely bizzare that the Empire, with all its gazillions of peoples, would put conscripts on its most powerful vessel, the king of the whole fleet, instead of prestigeous officers and soldiers who had done something to truly deserve such an honor.

nightmare wrote:Conclusion: the novel is wrong, and it was engine misfire. (Which btw gives the Executor a 180 degree turning radius at ~60 seconds. Probably less since it was still accelerating).

The novelization only mentions that the Executor started to spin toward the DS2, not the reason of the spinning. It also mentions that the Executor had some (visible) maneuvering/control problems before the "Super Star Action" (the attack aginst the Executor). So, engine misfire is more likely than the gravitic well of the DS2. (Maybe paired with the failure of the inertia compensation system that could render the crew incapable.)

Actually, I've always looked at it like this

The bridge shields drop, and Piett orders the forward guns to intensify

I think they did something smart and started EVASIVE manevers as well. You know, to avoid a Turbolaser blast hitting the bridge, since it makes sense that you can't shot down a Turbolaser blast.....

A-Wing rams the bridge

There is no one to control or stop the manever they started (the person doing it was just killed by the fireball from the A-wing ramming the bridge, or the lost of air, or Piett landed on him or something), and possibly computer engine control was disrupted.

(Or some safety shut the engines OFF and there momentum carried them the rest of the way until the Aux Bridge can take over)

Anyway, the manever, now uncontrolled, puts them into the gravity well of the Death Star 2, and they end up ramming it

Hasn't this occured to anyone before?

I mean, look at it this way, would you leave your now-unshielded bridge aimed towards the enemy?

Hell no!

Aim it towards the big ass heavily armed station that can provide cover fire and that no one in there right mind would want to be trapped between and your ship, (imagine how fast Executor and the surface guns of a Death Star could carve up a Mon Cal star cruiser) until you get your shields back up, then make the enemy pay for hurting your ship.



Also, a question for those bothered by the Executors death and are screaming repulsors etc

Why the bloody hell would a ship that is too freaking big to fly in an atmosphere (the largest Imperial ship that could do that was a Victory Star Destroyer, which was MUCH smaller then the Executor) have Repulsorliftdrives? Those are ment for planetary operations and on board ship. You want to move a ship in space with repulsors, you need something to repulse OFF (you know, push)

The only repulsorlift qoute I have ever seen for Executor was the comic series, just once I can recall. More then likely that was just a slight, forgiveable blunder by the comic artist/editor etc.

Putting Repulsors on a ship that big would be like putting a helicopter's rotating blades on a 747. Pointless and a waste of effort/resources.

Executor class destroyers don't need repulsors. Repulsors are only used in atmosphere and one one Executor class ship had entered atmosphere, Lusankya. Lusankya was a special case, it was stated in the X-Wing book that the repulsors on the Lusankya where jetisoned because it wouldn't enter atmosphere again.

Correction: Repulsors are needed to operate within six diameters

Star Wars -> Movie Novellization -> Star Wars IV: A New Hope Novellization / Propulsion
Pg. 96 : A voice announced over a hidden speaker that they had approached within antigrav range of Alderaan--approximately six planetary diameters.

- In reference to the death star. The DS uses repulsors, a mere excecutor would also.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:With an increase in space and territories to govern, a proportionate increase in neccessity in troops would be assumed.

Just because .5% of the population is a huge number, doesn't mean .5% is enough manpower to maintain an iron fist on a galaxy. A galaxy is a big place. Especially with 50 million worlds and countless stations and uncharted colonies and millions of patrol duties, etc.

True, but it is absolutely bizzare that the Empire, with all its gazillions of peoples, would put conscripts on its most powerful vessel, the king of the whole fleet, instead of prestigeous officers and soldiers who had done something to truly deserve such an honor.

Exactly.

Observe Captain Gilad Pelleaon in Heir to the Empire, thinking back to the glory days--even nostalgic about the Executor herself; followed by Pelleaon scoffing at the thought that now they actually had to partially rely on such young conscripts for bridge crew.

Solauren wrote:*snip*

The only realistic picture is that a FUBAR-ed manuver or engine mis-fire caused the Executor to ram the Death Star II once its bridge was decapitated.

However, there's no evidence the offensive anti-capital ship turbolaser emplacements were operational.

Circumstancial evidence supports that they were not:

1.) DS2 was relatively unprotected; only possible Imperial fleet defense of the station was discussed

2.) If the DS2's offensive TL armament was even barely operational, the Rebel fleet could not have been expected to survive.

3.) Lack of evidence for anything except low-altitude turbolasers defending vulnerable access tunnels into the superstructure.

4.) Reliance on the firepower of the Imperial fleet.

There's no reason to suggest the DS2 had operational offensive TL armament; that assumption is unjustified and in my opinion, unsound.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:True, but it is absolutely bizzare that the Empire, with all its gazillions of peoples, would put conscripts on its most powerful vessel, the king of the whole fleet, instead of prestigeous officers and soldiers who had done something to truly deserve such an honor.

For a historical analogy, the battlecruiser H.M.S. Tiger of WWI was crewed by deserters and other miscreants. At the time, she was the Royal Navy's finest, not to mention biggest and fastest, warship.

vakundok wrote:

nightmare wrote:Conclusion: the novel is wrong, and it was engine misfire. (Which btw gives the Executor a 180 degree turning radius at ~60 seconds. Probably less since it was still accelerating).

The novelization only mentions that the Executor started to spin toward the DS2, not the reason of the spinning. It also mentions that the Executor had some (visible) maneuvering/control problems before the "Super Star Action" (the attack aginst the Executor). So, engine misfire is more likely than the gravitic well of the DS2. (Maybe paired with the failure of the inertia compensation system that could render the crew incapable.)

I haven't read the novelization myself, but I've seen claims that it says it was DS2's gravity that pulled it in. It certainly is more likely that it was engine misfire since it's impossible that it was gravity. The descent is much too fast.

I think the only things which are really clear about the destruction of the Executor was, that it was incedible unrealistic, unlogical and one of the worst scenes of the film.

I think the only things which are really clear about the destruction of the Executor was, that it was incedible unrealistic, unlogical and one of the worst scenes of the film.

What happened to the quote button? Anyway. If the Executor had been realistically displayed, the rebels would have lost at Endor.. so we're left with the only alternative.

It would have been somewhat more acceptable for one of the Mon Cal cruisers to ram it, or for it to have been destroyed in the DS2 explosion.

Here's my not-so-politically correct version:


INT REBEL CRUISER HOME ONE

ADMIRAL ACKBAR "We've got to give those fighters more time. Concentrate all fire on that command ship."

CONTROLLER "Their shields are too strong! We'll never get through in time."

ADMIRAL ACKBAR "Then we have no choice. Shields double forward. Prepare for lightspeed."

INT COMMAND SHIP EXECUTOR

PIETT "They're going to ram us! Intensify forward firepower, I don't want anything to get through!"

CONTROLLER "It's too late!"

EXT ENDOR SPACE BATTLE

The damaged HOME ONE under fire from the EXECUTOR is closing in rapidly. Suddenly the Rebel Cruiser jumps to lightspeed and hits the huge Command Ship in a flash of light. Several close by Star Destroyers are caught in the explosion.

nightmare wrote:The damaged HOME ONE under fire from the EXECUTOR is closing in rapidly. Suddenly the Rebel Cruiser jumps to lightspeed and hits the huge Command Ship in a flash of light. Several close by Star Destroyers are caught in the explosion.

But unharmed :p

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Solauren wrote:*snip*

The only realistic picture is that a FUBAR-ed manuver or engine mis-fire caused the Executor to ram the Death Star II once its bridge was decapitated.

However, there's no evidence the offensive anti-capital ship turbolaser emplacements were operational.

Circumstancial evidence supports that they were not:

1.) DS2 was relatively unprotected; only possible Imperial fleet defense of the station was discussed

2.) If the DS2's offensive TL armament was even barely operational, the Rebel fleet could not have been expected to survive.

3.) Lack of evidence for anything except low-altitude turbolasers defending vulnerable access tunnels into the superstructure.

4.) Reliance on the firepower of the Imperial fleet.

There's no reason to suggest the DS2 had operational offensive TL armament; that assumption is unjustified and in my opinion, unsound.

I agree. My theory was that the Executor was moving in close to the DSII to protect it from incursions from the Rebel Starfighters. The bridge was hit and in the confusion the secondary bridge where slow switching over. Boom!

Oh, why can't it be gravity? Do you think Lucas actually measured the speed of the descend with all sorts of accurate tools? No! So, we can't just dismiss it like this...
And what about all the measurements on this site? It is not as if Lucas even cared about making sure all the turbolasers are at the right strength, and the shields have the right power everytime. Do you think all the firepower is consistent, and that, like I've said, Lucas did complex calculations to make sure they stay consistent?
Look at the mistake of the rank insignias? What make us think such mistakes wouldn't apply to other things in the film?

Well, I'm prepared for all the flames...

Emperor D. C. Palpatine

Emperor Palpatine wrote:Oh, why can't it be gravity? Do you think Lucas actually measured the speed of the descend with all sorts of accurate tools? No! So, we can't just dismiss it like this...

Yes we can. Because unlike you we know what suspension of disbelief and basic laws of science are.

And what about all the measurements on this site? It is not as if Lucas even cared about making sure all the turbolasers are at the right strength, and the shields have the right power everytime. Do you think all the firepower is consistent, and that, like I've said, Lucas did complex calculations to make sure they stay consistent?

Since all we've ever seen is lower limits, everything has been consistent.

Look at the mistake of the rank insignias? What make us think such mistakes wouldn't apply to other things in the film?

Black & white fallacy. One error doesn't disprve the whole thing.

Well, I'm prepared for all the flames...

Emperor Donkey Cock Palpatine

Yes, I expect you will run the hell away just like last time when you got your pathetic ass stomped.

Oh, please. You people are taking this suspension of disbelief thing too seriously. You're only deceiving yourself by thinking you 'got' the answer... the movie is not a documentary... you don't expect everything to be consistent. Do you even think Lucas even care how fast the descend should be IF it was due to gravity? You use basic laws of science to explain a movie not neccessarily following basic laws of science.

If everything was correct, we might as well hear nothing in a space battle, and that asteroid scene in TESB would not have existed. Ah, yes. These are needed for excitement. You see? What makes you think all the turbolaser blasts are not deliberately made to make it exciting?

Well, if this were a documentary, perhaps the Federation (IF Star Trek, too, was a documentary, of course.) and Empire tech. might be on par... no, the Empire would be slightly better, but just slightly.

Hah, one error does not disprove the whole thing. Well, you think there might be only one error. If a crack appear in a building, you would dismiss it? You wouldn't even wonder if other cracks might appear?

Oh, BTW, if you have nothing funny to write, don't make fun of names. How childish can you be?

Emperor D. C. Palaptine

Emperor Palpatine wrote:Oh, please. You people are taking this suspension of disbelief thing too seriously. You're only deceiving yourself by thinking you 'got' the answer... the movie is not a documentary... you don't expect everything to be consistent.

How else do you expect do debate science fiction then? Don't say don't debate it; if that is what you believe, why are you here in a thread about the Executor?

I'm here because the title simply said Super Star Destroyer. I'm a big fan of Star Destroyers and SSDs, and naturally, I checked this thread out, only to discover explanations people conceived to deceive themselves.
And when I realised this was the case, I reply! Is this something impossible?!

E.D.C.P

Emperor Palpatine wrote:I'm here because the title simply said Super Star Destroyer. I'm a big fan of Star Destroyers and SSDs, and naturally, I checked this thread out, only to discover explanations people conceived to deceive themselves.
And when I realised this was the case, I reply! Is this something impossible?!

E.D.C.P

So aside from random wandering and trolling because "IT'S NOT REAL!!!!"

You have nothing to offer.

Emperor Palpatine wrote:Oh, why can't it be gravity?

Already explained. You can hear the shift in engine power (no, not by sound in space, but assumed to be an approximation of in-movie reality), the ship dives nose first instead of falling down according to gravitational balance, which would be further to the aft considering the mass and shape of the vessel, and if the DS2 had strong enough gravity to pull in the Executor at that speed, it would suck in Endor, or at the very least make Endor orbit the DS2 instead of the stated opposite. It only takes a minimal amount of common sense to realize it can't be gravity.

Emperor Palpatine wrote:Do you think Lucas actually measured the speed of the descend with all sorts of accurate tools?

No - and that's totally irrelevant. What do you have to support the claim it was gravity? Nothing.

Emperor Palpatine wrote:No! So, we can't just dismiss it like this...

We can dismiss things totally without any support in both fiction and reality.

Emperor Palpatine wrote:And what about all the measurements on this site? It is not as if Lucas even cared about making sure all the turbolasers are at the right strength, and the shields have the right power everytime. Do you think all the firepower is consistent, and that, like I've said, Lucas did complex calculations to make sure they stay consistent?

Why would it remain constant? Even if for example the energy delivered by for example turbolasers were the same in every shot (obviously not) results would still vary depending on the target, the sixe and construction of the actual weapon in question in each event, and the complexity of the macrouniverse, aka chaos theory.

Or put in simpler terms for your sake, nothing remains totally consistent.

Emperor Palpatine wrote:Look at the mistake of the rank insignias?

What support do you have that there was any mistakes regarding insignias? Do you know the Empire's complete rank structure, perchance? Ah, there's that annoying thing again, lack of evidence.

Emperor Palpatine wrote:What make us think such mistakes wouldn't apply to other things in the film?

It's like saying "Oh come on, why couldn't Palpatine be a wookie? He may not look like a wookie, but they could have made a mistake."

If you want to claim that canon events are not what they look like, I suggest you back up your claim with a bit more than presenting some unfinished, barely thought out opinions. When you do, remember that each piece of evidence only goes as far as the actual example. I could go on much longer regarding this topic, but I fear that I may have already passed your reading comprehension, since you have displayed ignorance of my previous post.

Emperor Palpatine wrote: Well, I'm prepared for all the flames...

Emperor D. C. Palpatine

I'm not a huge supporter of invectives used against other people. It accomplishes nothing useful in my view. It's better to let frustration out in other ways.

We can expect nothing better from this assclown. I thought we'd ran off Palpatine ages ago.

isn`t this thread about the fighter complement of an Executor class Star Destroyer?