Star ship weapons range

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-26 07:12pm

Jedi Search

pg.11: The ship fired surgical strikes of turbolasers at the Falcon's
maneuvering jets, disabling them further.

And let's not forget that the YT-1300 uses maneuvering jets to position itself correctly to load cargo onto the front loading arms. But no, lil' Darkstar won't admit that his point doesn't stand when the evidence is against him.

And of course, he ignores everything we know about the Millennium Falcon. When it uses its repulsorlifts, it uses its antigrav thrusters to maneuver. When it has its sublight engines on, it uses the thrust vector panels on the back of the ship to maneuver. But of course, that would take some actual research, which Darkstar jr. here is incapable of doing.

SW:ICS: pg.3 (under Repulsorlifts)

Repulsorlift airspeeders and other such ground-based craft are strictly limited in the altitudes they can reach, with most speeders offering only 2-50 meters of "float". Flight-grade repulsorlifts can carry a vehicle to suborbital altitudes, but only true spacecraft employ these powerful devices.

Now we see flight-grade repulsorlifts can get you at least suborbital, but we didn't SEE the Falcon use its repulsorlifts to escape Tatooine or Hoth, DID we? We didn't see the Queen's ship use its repulsorlifts to escape DID we? Know why? They we in a HURRY, escaping.

Using sublight engines on the ground is dangerous for the environment around it. That's why we didn't see X-wings blast out of the Massassi ruins with their sublights lit, they floated out on repulsors until they were clear of the hangar, even though they were in a HURRY to get to the Death Star. We also didn't see X-wings blast off the ground at Hoth with their sublights lit for the same reason.

TESB novelization

pg.230: The huge freighter's engines roared. And everything behind the craft was instantly melted in the fiery exhaust billowing from its tailpiece.

SW:ICS, pg.3 (under Sublight Drives)

Spacecraft engage their sublight engines once they are well clear of any facilities or personnel that might be harmed by the mildly radioactive emissions.

QED. Bitch.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-07-27 06:00am

Just forget it Wayne. We went throug this with him before, Ossus is going through the same with him in the OTHER thread, and he's pulling the same inane bullshit tactics he usually does. We've already samshed his arguments to pieces, but he refuses to concede.

I dont know about you, but repetition gets boring and he's just going to try to drag it out into some meaningless endurance battle hoping we'll get tired, so it might as well be ended now when we KNOW he's beaten.

Besides, you dont think any independent observer reading this would actually believe he won it, do you?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-27 12:07pm

Yup, you're right Connor. Just like he did in the Falcon maneuvering thread and the Falcon weapons range thread! The Wall of Ignorance is still up. If this IS Darkstar, too bad he doesn't have the balls to say so. If it ISN'T Darkstar, too bad he hasn't the balls to admit he's trolling on Darkstar's behest.

Oh well, Concession Accepted!

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-27 04:51pm

Lord Poe wrote:Yup, you're right Connor. Just like he did in the Falcon maneuvering thread and the Falcon weapons range thread! The Wall of Ignorance is still up. If this IS Darkstar, too bad he doesn't have the balls to say so. If it ISN'T Darkstar, too bad he hasn't the balls to admit he's trolling on Darkstar's behest.

Oh well, Concession Accepted!

You are right this guy does sound familier

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-07-27 11:23pm

Lord Poe wrote:Yup, you're right Connor. Just like he did in the Falcon maneuvering thread and the Falcon weapons range thread! The Wall of Ignorance is still up. If this IS Darkstar, too bad he doesn't have the balls to say so. If it ISN'T Darkstar, too bad he hasn't the balls to admit he's trolling on Darkstar's behest.

Oh well, Concession Accepted!

Now that you mention it, it wouldn't surprise me if Kazeite is the one slipping information to Scoot on the sly. Would it surprise you?

Kazeite · Post by **Kazeite** » 2003-07-28 02:12pm

Oh yeah, I'm so totally smashed to pieces I can't get up

Seriously, do you believe all this, excuse me, shit you spew around? If yes, then I can only be sorry for you.

And the worst part of it is that you are actually wasting your life completely. And your childish obsession with DarkStar doesn't help, either.

(as far as I can see, you're just pissed because he treats you exactly as you treat him. Of course, you can't stand being insulted and mocked, so you ban him and then claim proudly that you "smashed his arguments into pieces". Yeah. Very adult-like behaviour)

But of course, by your own definition, Connor, you have every right to say that you've won, since you choose to withdraw from discussion.

(and I was thorougly entertained by last PoeStar post, in which he confuses engines with supposed maneuvering thrusters, doesn't remember that antigrav and repulsorlift are the same thing, tries to imply that info from books has priority over info from movies, ignores movie evidence once again, presents evidence that actually strenghtens my case (which contradicts his other claims). Oh yeah... That'll teach me never to try to engage in any reational debate with him.

)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-07-28 02:20pm

So are you going to actually REFUTE what they are saying or just sit back and scream how bad and nasty the mean people were?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-28 04:19pm

lets see

1. You ignore the point that hitting the engines increases the chance of hitting the nearby volitile fuel tanks, reactor, ect. Not to mention that you would have to hit both at the same time to ensure that the ship might not fly apart from the sudden change in vectors.

2. The Queens ship's Deflectors prevented the pinpoint targeting of ship componants. Those droids were attempting to fix said system of they succeed(as seen with good old R2) they ship's chance of ecsape increases. this makes them a viable target. In the course of shooting the Droids they also hit the Hyperdrive system. It seems a calculated hit to knock out the shield generator in the first place(concentrate the fire around the generator to overwhell that section of the shield to allow a chance for a hit to damage it killing the entire shield grid)

3. The Queens ship is not a warship it is a civilian yacht. It was built with only minimal defensive systems. Its only defense was the deflector shield system. It engines would not have the same design tolorences as a military craft as a starfighter.

4. The site you quoted suggests that the hit to the X-Wings engine shows the excellent cover the ship's deflector system provided to the engine and its components.

An X-wing is struck by an enemy fighter's laser blast. Despite having been under heavy surface fire, the ship weathered a solid hit with no telling superficial damage. Strong testament to the capabilities of an X-wing's deflector shields. (Clip from Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, courtesy of Andrew Tse, converted by James Lupiani)
Note that much of the hit appear to glance off below the fighter in this image.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-28 04:40pm

[quote="Kazeite"]<snip Wall of Ignorance>

Concession Accepted, dickfor.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-07-28 04:40pm

Kazeite wrote: excuse me, shit you spew around?

SD.net doesn't care about swearing.

Kazeite · Post by **Kazeite** » 2003-07-29 02:37pm

Ghost Rider wrote:So are you going to actually REFUTE what they are saying or just sit back and scream how bad and nasty the mean people were?

Um... it was Connor's turn when he decided to quit. And what am I supposed to do about their insults? Insult them back? I tried that, and didn't like it.

Isolder74 wrote:You ignore the point that hitting the engines increases the chance of hitting the nearby volitile fuel tanks, reactor, ect.

Well, it does, of course. But if RF gunners had so good accurancy that they started to snipe droids off the hull then it would be no problem, don't you think?

Also, like I said before "sudden engine deactivation" (which doesn't mean that engines are blowing up) will be harmless for the ship. I said that because I see no reason to assume that SW flight computers are so unsophisticated that they can't compensate if one of the engines is not working (which again doesn't mean that I'm saying that blowing up the engine will not cause ship to be at least severely damaged).

The Queens ship's Deflectors prevented the pinpoint targeting of ship componants.

Why would deflectors prevent targeting? ECM, maybe, but shields? Deflectors were certainly preventing TF from damaging ship components, that's for sure.

It seems a calculated hit to knock out the shield generator in the first place(concentrate the fire around the generator to overwhell that section of the shield to allow a chance for a hit to damage it killing the entire shield grid)

Yes, exactly! So, like I said, why not go one step further, ignore droids, and shoot at shield generator some more, rendering it even more inoperable? It's certainly simpler, isn't it?

The Queens ship is not a warship it is a civilian yacht. It was built with only minimal defensive systems. Its only defense was the deflector shield system. It engines would not have the same design tolerences as a military craft as a starfighter.

Which means that shooting at engines would be even more dangerous, right?
But still, even if we scratch engines as possible targets, there are other systems that can be targeted and disabled.

The site you quoted suggests that the hit to the X-Wings engine shows the excellent cover the ship's deflector system provided to the engine and its components.

We covered the possiblity of limited-power blast in our discussion. I'm certainly claiming that all shots fired at queens yacht were "dialed down" in an attempt to minimise unwanted damage and provide more precise control over disabling process.

Lord Poe wrote:Concession Accepted.

Lord Poe wrote:Concession accepted.

Lord Poe wrote:concession accepted.

Lord Poe wrote:concession Accepted.

Go ahead, say it again ten times more, if it makes you feel better, Fluffy (I got tired with calling him Poe.

) It won't change anything. It won't certainly change distance covered by Falcon in that TESB scene.

YT300000 wrote:SD.net doesn't care about swearing.

But I care. It is a trait of civilised man to use civilised words, don't you think?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-07-29 03:00pm

Kazeite wrote:
YT300000 wrote:SD.net doesn't care about swearing.
But I care. It is a trait of civilised man to use civilised words, don't you think?

If someone is smarter than me, and he swears, who am I to comment on it?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-29 04:18pm

Kazeite wrote:, like I said before "sudden engine deactivation" (which doesn't mean that engines are blowing up) will be harmless for the ship. I said that because I see no reason to assume that SW flight computers are so unsophisticated that they can't compensate if one of the engines is not working (which again doesn't mean that I'm saying that blowing up the engine will not cause ship to be at least severely damaged).

And why not, no computer can act instantly! The computer would have to reduce the thrust from the other engine in order to pull this off and it would have to do it the instant the engine was hit! Basically only a Jedi could pull this off. In a F-14 you can lose one engine but there is still a good chance it will send you into a tailspin. But because the engines on said fighter are much closer togather it is much more stable.

The Queens ship's Deflectors prevented the pinpoint targeting of ship componants.
Why would deflectors prevent targeting? ECM, maybe, but shields? Deflectors were certainly preventing TF from damaging ship components, that's for sure.

Because the delfector deflect the shot! Duh!

The deflectors make it impossible to fire a disabling shot at any of the components without using a overwhelming shot which may be enough to do catasrophic damage to the target which in this case is not a option!

It seems a calculated hit to knock out the shield generator in the first place(concentrate the fire around the generator to overwhell that section of the shield to allow a chance for a hit to damage it killing the entire shield grid)
Yes, exactly! So, like I said, why not go one step further, ignore droids, and shoot at shield generator some more, rendering it even more inoperable? It's certainly simpler, isn't it?

They also fired on the hyperdrive remember(we have cannon proof it got hit stupid) besides the droids were in the way of hitting the thing in the first place and it is uncertain how long repairing the generator might actually take why not kill the repair crew?

The site you quoted suggests that the hit to the X-Wings engine shows the excellent cover the ship's deflector system provided to the engine and its components.
We covered the possiblity of limited-power blast in our discussion. I'm certainly claiming that all shots fired at queens yacht were "dialed down" in an attempt to minimise unwanted damage and provide more precise control over disabling process.

You don't like me using your own evidence against you? The fact that the X-Wing's shields were able to prevent damage to the engine shows that killing the droids would be a good thing to shoot at! You are firing you disabling shots and poof the shields go back up and it is now not possible to carfully hit anything anymore.

Stop the droids and you can allow the disablers to continue doing their jobs. Are you so stupid to think that all of the TF gunners were firing on the Droids

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-07-29 04:36pm

Just ignore him. he's already up for VI status and he's only attempting to drag it out hoping you get tired of debating him, then he claims victory (look at what he did with me. No doubt he considers himself to have gained a "victory" over Ossus as well.)

The fact is that his lies have been exposed and noone buys his bullshit. There's no point in dealing further with the troll.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-29 05:24pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:Just ignore him. he's already up for VI status and he's only attempting to drag it out hoping you get tired of debating him, then he claims victory (look at what he did with me. No doubt he considers himself to have gained a "victory" over Ossus as well.)

The fact is that his lies have been exposed and noone buys his bullshit. There's no point in dealing further with the troll.

Agreed. What a fucktard! Darkstar keeps harping about the "Falcon range" thing even though its been pointed out to the fucking loser time and again! If his head were any farther up his ass he'd be brushing his teeth through his navel!

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-07-29 10:59pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:Just ignore him. he's already up for VI status and he's only attempting to drag it out hoping you get tired of debating him, then he claims victory (look at what he did with me. No doubt he considers himself to have gained a "victory" over Ossus as well.)

The fact is that his lies have been exposed and noone buys his bullshit. There's no point in dealing further with the troll.
Agreed. What a fucktard! Darkstar keeps harping about the "Falcon range" thing even though its been pointed out to the fucking loser time and again! If his head were any farther up his ass he'd be brushing his teeth through his navel!

Did you vote yet?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-30 12:48am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Did you vote yet?

Not yet!

Kazeite · Post by **Kazeite** » 2003-07-30 12:21pm

Isolder74 wrote:And why not, no computer can act instantly! The computer would have to reduce the thrust from the other engine in order to pull this off and it would have to do it the instant the engine was hit!

Well, I'm giving SW computers benefit of the doubt.

Besides, your situation would require instant thrust lost. The computer would know if one of the engines started to lose thrust and react accordingly.

Because the delfector deflect the shot! Duh!

So they protect from hitting target, not from targeting it. Duh

OK, so we agree that in order to disable craft, we must first bring down its shields, right?

They also fired on the hyperdrive remember(we have cannon proof it got hit stupid)

Since of course I claimed that hyperdrive was completely damaged... No, wait, I didn't

I don't consider it a problem for TF to fire at many components simultaneously.

besides the droids were in the way of hitting the thing in the first place

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but they weren't. Droids were above shields generator.

You don't like me using your own evidence against you?

Nobody likes that

The fact that the X-Wing's shields were able to prevent damage to the engine shows that killing the droids would be a good thing to shoot at!

Hm... I'm not sure I follow... TF punched through the shields once. Why couldn't they do it again? And again?

And, wait, I just thought about something... If the SW shields are... what's the word... hull hugging? You know, when they are very close to the hull.
So, if the shields are like that, then it means that droids were unprotected by shields, right?

Are you so stupid to think that all of the TF gunners were firing on the Droids?

Not me, but Connor tried to mockingly claim that TF gunners didn't hit the Yacht even once while targeting the droids

Connor MacLeod wrote:he's only attempting to drag it out hoping you get tired of debating him, then he claims victory (look at what he did with me. No doubt he considers himself to have gained a "victory" over Ossus as well.)

I think this is a good time to respond with famous Fluffy quote:"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Are you so seriously, um, handicapped, that you believe that I would claim victory only because you chose to withdraw from debate? Don't apply your standards to me.

Now, Ossus debate, that was silly, but I don't consider myself a winner either.

And, if it makes you feel better, then go ahead, repeat "concession accepted" every five minutes or give me any title you want. It won't change anything. What you believe regarding my "lies" is irrevelant. The fact remains you were unable to convince me that I'm wrong (Isolder74, on the other hands, has made some interesing points...)

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2004-07-04 09:44am

Look! Its shit-for-brains Kazeite! Lets all say how pleased we are to see him here!

BTW Kazzy boy, for your convinience im MC from TrekBBS. And why did you run away? You still havent provided the evidence or the actual rebuttals i was so eagerly waiting for.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-07-04 09:45am

bad Necromancy....baaaaaad