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Butterbean569 wrote:The Russian's have already taken a huge beating...both in man/material and morale. If Moscow falls, the morale factor would be huge. I doubt anyone would even want to fight.

They will when the NKVD shoots anyone who starts giving up.

Furthermore, if the Nazi's take Moscow, they can turn that into a new staging base.

German logistics still suck, they have to move enormous amounts of material over a thin line all the way back to Germany. No dice. Oh, yes, the Soviets used a different rail gauge, too.

If the US was totally neutral, wouldn't the embargo on Japan never have existed? If this is so, wouldn't Japan have helped Germany conquer Russia? Imagine the Russians trying to fight a two-front ground war without US support, plus having to defend themselves from the IJN. I'm surprised no one brought this up...or is there something really obvious I'm missing?

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:If the US was totally neutral, wouldn't the embargo on Japan never have existed? If this is so, wouldn't Japan have helped Germany conquer Russia?

After certain events in 1939 in the form of the end of a string of defeats of the Japanses by the Russians, the Japanese army would not consider attacking Russia seriously. There was little of value to capture, and defeat would be near certain . Plus it would have absorbed all remaining Japanese troop reserves and then some. That would make a sweep to the south impossible.

Imagine the Russians trying to fight a two-front ground war without US support, plus having to defend themselves from the IJN.

The Japanese navy is worth precisely nothing in an invasion of Manchuria. The only port of significance, Vladivostok, is too heavily defended to be attacked directly. Shooting it out with the 150 costal guns, including several multiple turreted 305mm batteries and 14 inch railway guns, is not going to be much fun. And it's close enough to the boarder that amphibious out flanking operations would have little value.

The IJA meanwhile is stuck with the weapons of WW1, though with nothing like the concentration of artillery and other heavy weapons, fighting against often tank heavy Russian forces equipped with superior weapons and equipment in every category, and far more of them. Did I mention how badly the terrain sucks for an invasion?

I'm surprised no one brought this up...or is there something really obvious I'm missing?

See above.

Sea Skimmer wrote:After certain events in 1939 in the form of the end of a string of defeats of the Japanses by the Russians, the Japanese army would not consider attacking Russia seriously. There was little of value to capture, and defeat would be near certain . Plus it would have absorbed all remaining Japanese troop reserves and then some. That would make a sweep to the south impossible.

Even with the Germans invading from the East, the Japanese would have been nearly useless? Perhaps they would have at least spread out Russian forces to make it easier for the Germans?

The Japanese navy is worth precisely nothing in an invasion of Manchuria. The only port of significance, Vladivostok, is too heavily defended to be attacked directly. Shooting it out with the 150 costal guns, including several multiple turreted 305mm batteries and 14 inch railway guns, is not going to be much fun. And it's close enough to the boarder that amphibious out flanking operations would have little value.

Was it possible for the Japanese to deploy carrier-based fighters and dive bombers to make raids on the Russian coast to soften it up? Or were they too short-ranged?

The IJA meanwhile is stuck with the weapons of WW1, though with nothing like the concentration of artillery and other heavy weapons, fighting against often tank heavy Russian forces equipped with superior weapons and equipment in every category, and far more of them. Did I mention how badly the terrain sucks for an invasion?

I totally agree with this. From what I understand, even Japan's modern ground weapons during WWII sucked horribly. But it's better than having no Japanese troops invading...I guess they would be more of a diversion than a threat to Russia.

Also, please be patient. I am not nearly as well-read on military history as you or most other posters on SD.net are.

IRG CommandoJoe wrote: I totally agree with this. From what I understand, even Japan's modern ground weapons during WWII sucked horribly. But it's better than having no Japanese troops invading...I guess they would be more of a diversion than a threat to Russia.

Yes it would be a diversion. But what would japan get? A butt whipping and
nothing else. A bad move from the japanese point of view.

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:]

Even with the Germans invading from the East, the Japanese would have been nearly useless? Perhaps they would have at least spread out Russian forces to make it easier for the Germans?

No, throughout the war Russia maintained more then enough troops and equipment in the Far East to deal with the Japanese.

Was it possible for the Japanese to deploy carrier-based fighters and dive bombers to make raids on the Russian coast to soften it up? Or were they too short-ranged?

Vladivostok is the only major target and its guns and fighters will take a considerable toll on IJN air groups, losses which cannot be made good quickly. expending them against a heavily defended target would be foolish. Anyway because of there limited bomb loads the ability of carrier groups to support land forces and destroy land targets is limited, only American carriers could ever do it well because of the huge pipeline set up to supply more munitions, planes and pilots during the course of a campaign. The Japanese had to return to base for that to happen, and in the case of planes and pilots wait months.

I totally agree with this. From what I understand, even Japan's modern ground weapons during WWII sucked horribly. But it's better than having no Japanese troops invading...I guess they would be more of a diversion than a threat to Russia.

Problem is it means expending every available unit in the IJA. That would leave Japan without the ability to seize resources in south East Asia or to further pursue its invasion of China. That's a huge and almost certainly fatal loss in exchange for getting defeated and possibly gaining some forest later if Germany is successful and can actually get Russia to agree to a peace.