StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Like I said before I pretty much love all of the fighters for one reason or another, but I decided, because it never seems to be mentioned, to give some love to the Virago. It's fast, maneuverable, and powerful, plus it looks badass.

Kerneth wrote:I'll take an E-Wing. Faster and more manueverable than an X-Wing (until something proves otherwise),

WEG says later subclasses of the X-wing (whatever the one in the JAT sourcebook is IIRC) are as fast as an A-wing. And the XJ and XJ3 are faster then that. All 3 are faster then the E-wing as a result, unless inaddition to gun upgrades it also got engine upgrades (likely, but the degree of which is unknown. Plus might not be possible, the damn thing has to be well balanced and extremley front heavy to keep it from doing a loop the loop due to engine placement)

Rogue 9 wrote:

Andras wrote:Thrawn used a 350m Carrack with a double blind cloak (smaller then a Dreadnought).

Okay, yes a Carrack is smaller than a Dreadnaught. And any kind of TIE model starfighter is smaller than the Falcon. And as Captain Needa said, "No ship that small has a cloaking device!" My point stands. A starfighter could not carry, much less power, a SW cloaking device.

You will now of course provide proof of this aside from the already shot down quote from Captain Needa, correct?

I've examined power generation of all kinds of SW ships. For a standard TIE its well into the petawatt range, the V-38 has much more volume available for a larger reactor.

Rogue 9 wrote:

Andras wrote:Thrawn used a 350m Carrack with a double blind cloak (smaller then a Dreadnought).

Okay, yes a Carrack is smaller than a Dreadnaught. And any kind of TIE model starfighter is smaller than the Falcon. And as Captain Needa said, "No ship that small has a cloaking device!" My point stands. A starfighter could not carry, much less power, a SW cloaking device.

People have already addressed this, and I am probably only adding a "Duh" reply, but I want my two cents.

You are assuming that the person involved can be taken as an incontrovertible authority on cloaking projects. We have no reason to believe this is so. (This is like saying Han is an authority on modern Imperial projects when he says its impossible for the Empire to haev destroyed a planet...)

All I have to say to you is if Needa's statement is true, how do you explain the Sith Infiltrator?

If you have conclusive proof that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a small ship to mount a cloaking device, provide it.

Ender wrote:

Kerneth wrote:I'll take an E-Wing. Faster and more manueverable than an X-Wing (until something proves otherwise),

WEG says later subclasses of the X-wing (whatever the one in the JAT sourcebook is IIRC) are as fast as an A-wing. And the XJ and XJ3 are faster then that. All 3 are faster then the E-wing as a result, unless inaddition to gun upgrades it also got engine upgrades (likely, but the degree of which is unknown. Plus might not be possible, the damn thing has to be well balanced and extremley front heavy to keep it from doing a loop the loop due to engine placement)

True. I tend to assume that the reason the X-Wing has stayed in service is that old-school pilots--Wedge Antilles/Rogue Squadron, Luke Skywalker and his Jedi--are all enthusiasts for the fighter. Luke Skywalker, after all, flat out admits to himself that the E-Wing is a superior fighter to the X-Wing (Black Fleet Crisis, I think?), but he prefers the X-Wing because the E-Wing is too much of a dedicated fighter (and the X-Wing isn't?). Wedge Antilles tells the members of Rogue Squadron that they can debate the merits of the various fighters available to the Rebel Alliance all they want, but they will fly X-Wings because Rogue Squadron has *always* flown X-Wings.

Given the enormous fame and popularity of Luke Skywalker and Rogue Squadron in the New Republic, it would not surprise me if their endorsement of the X-Wing kept it in service despite the availability of a superior fighter-craft...but given the lack of examples from the EU, there's no real way to know which fighter is the superior by the end of the NJO.

Tie Defender, it's got a tractor beam, sheilds and it's fast, but the X-wing is the best GA/NR/RA (whatever) fighter.

Any Imperial fighter technically should be able to mount a beam weapon (They appear to be quite modular.)

Vympel wrote:Don't mention the TIE Interceptor. The law of the SD.net PSW forum means it will quickly degenerate into a 10-gun TIE Interceptor argument with much screaming, hollering, insults, and icons, as well as berating of the EU for putting us in this position in the first place.

Oh no, too late!

So whats wrong with assuming they can vary the number of guns mounted on the craft? They might trade speed for firepower (assuming the reactor remains the same, adding more guns or taking them away would result in a power surplus that might be applied to engines.

There is evidence the Interceptor has an overpowered reactor for its size. The fact it can be saddled with shields, hyperdrive, and navicomputer without massive increase in volume of the hull to accomodate a new reactor and thus necessitating virtually a new design to accomodate for structural changes, indicates a healthy surplus of reactor power for agility and manuverability in stock models.

Connor MacLeod wrote:
So whats wrong with assuming they can vary the number of guns mounted on the craft? They might trade speed for firepower (assuming the reactor remains the same, adding more guns or taking them away would result in a power surplus that might be applied to engines.

Nothing at all's wrong with it, it's a perfectly valid rationalization, I'm just getting nostalgia from the good ol days.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Any Imperial fighter technically should be able to mount a beam weapon (They appear to be quite modular.)

IIRC, in X-Wing Vs. TIE Fighter the Advanced was the only one mounted with a beam weapon (I can't remember which game it was that I used the Defender, but I think only it and the Advanced had a beam weapon).

Dorsk 81 wrote:
IIRC, in X-Wing Vs. TIE Fighter the Advanced was the only one mounted with a beam weapon (I can't remember which game it was that I used the Defender, but I think only it and the Advanced had a beam weapon).

In TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance beam weapon mountings came with all and sundry.

Vympel wrote:

Dorsk 81 wrote:
IIRC, in X-Wing Vs. TIE Fighter the Advanced was the only one mounted with a beam weapon (I can't remember which game it was that I used the Defender, but I think only it and the Advanced had a beam weapon).

In TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance beam weapon mountings came with all and sundry.

I'll take your word for it, I can't remember where my copy if X-wing Alliance is or where X-wing Vs. TIE Fighter Academy is for that matter.

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:

Andras wrote:Thrawn used a 350m Carrack with a double blind cloak (smaller then a Dreadnought).

Okay, yes a Carrack is smaller than a Dreadnaught. And any kind of TIE model starfighter is smaller than the Falcon. And as Captain Needa said, "No ship that small has a cloaking device!" My point stands. A starfighter could not carry, much less power, a SW cloaking device.

People have already addressed this, and I am probably only adding a "Duh" reply, but I want my two cents.

You are assuming that the person involved can be taken as an incontrovertible authority on cloaking projects. We have no reason to believe this is so. (This is like saying Han is an authority on modern Imperial projects when he says its impossible for the Empire to haev destroyed a planet...)

All I have to say to you is if Needa's statement is true, how do you explain the Sith Infiltrator?

If you have conclusive proof that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a small ship to mount a cloaking device, provide it.

The Sith Infiltrator? Easily. Note the giant nose on the thing devoted almost entirely to housing the cloak. And it is far larger than a TIE. Don't know whether its larger than the Falcon, though. I'll concede that Captain Needa wouldn't know about secret cloak projects.

But this V-38 is something I've never heard of before this thread. And all the material provided shows nothing more than a fighter specifications list with question marks in every entry except the cloak and some speculation on the weapons. And half the words misspelled in the following description too. Look, the source for it is an early game, right? One of the Rebel Assault games, IIRC. Well, we all know how true to the story games are. Go play XWA through to the end and tell me who flew the Falcon at Endor. Then go watch RotJ and tell me who flew the Falcon at Endor. Then tell me which one you trust.

Its been a long time since I've read Heir to the Empire and the rest of that series (I'll go to the library and amend that tomorrow), but I'm almost certain that I remember Thrawn mentioning the limits of a cloak, and tremendous power consumption was on the list. In addition to them being two-way and all that jazz. A starfighter that can't detect its targets is useless. And if the Empire had ever developed a one-way cloak, I find it hard to believe that Palpatine wouldn't have had at least one at Mount Tantiss. That was the purpose of the place, after all.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:There is evidence the Interceptor has an overpowered reactor for its size. The fact it can be saddled with shields, hyperdrive, and navicomputer without massive increase in volume of the hull to accomodate a new reactor and thus necessitating virtually a new design to accomodate for structural changes, indicates a healthy surplus of reactor power for agility and manuverability in stock models.

Yes yes, the TIE-interceptor was a result of the TIE-Advanced X1 variant, so it probably has the power to accomodate them (the TIE Advanced X1 has hyperdrive and shields, but the mass and power draw slowed it down significantly.) Shielded/hyperdrive equipped TIE Interceptors appear to be slower and less manuverable as a rule (EG Apwar Trigit's personal TIE Interceptors and those of his bodyguards in Wraith squadron.)

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:There is evidence the Interceptor has an overpowered reactor for its size. The fact it can be saddled with shields, hyperdrive, and navicomputer without massive increase in volume of the hull to accomodate a new reactor and thus necessitating virtually a new design to accomodate for structural changes, indicates a healthy surplus of reactor power for agility and manuverability in stock models.

Yes yes, the TIE-interceptor was a result of the TIE-Advanced X1 variant, so it probably has the power to accomodate them (the TIE Advanced X1 has hyperdrive and shields, but the mass and power draw slowed it down significantly.) Shielded/hyperdrive equipped TIE Interceptors appear to be slower and less manuverable as a rule (EG Apwar Trigit's personal TIE Interceptors and those of his bodyguards in Wraith squadron.)

Thoose Swuits don't have sheilds. Donos speculated they might in Wraith Squadron but in Iron Fist shalla states "I hate this thing, its a fradgile as a squint and as slow as an X-Wing"

Crazedwraith wrote:

Thoose Swuits don't have sheilds. Donos speculated they might in Wraith Squadron but in Iron Fist shalla states "I hate this thing, its a fradgile as a squint and as slow as an X-Wing"

That's not explicit evidence against shields- 'fragile' is a word I would use to describe hull armor rating. In any case, Admiral Zaarin's TIE Interceptors had shields.

Crazedwraith wrote:So sheilds and durabillity are a no-no?

I prefer maneuverability over shields. Why bother with shields if I can get out of the way? Shields don't seem to last long anyway.

What is this durability you speak of? In the entire movie, they have been shot down as badly as the TIE. The only one I can think of is Luke's fighter but that's about it.

Face it with an X-Wing you get same speed, two more lasers, Six protorps and sheilds!! And an ejector seat in case you do manage to get shot up.

I like the fact that TIE lasers can fire pivotly and to me worth more then two extra laser canons. Proton torpedoes take too long IMO.

It's profile to me is even more likeable. Harder for you to aim squarely behind me with just a pod in the middle and horizontal solar panels to the side. Meaning your best chance is the pod.

IIRC there was a thread speaking that the TIE has shields judged from the scene of ANH.

Cyaround,
Jason

Grand Admiral Thrawn similarly added shields to TIE Interceptors, though no hyperdrives/navicomputers.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Grand Admiral Thrawn similarly added shields to TIE Interceptors, though no hyperdrives/navicomputers.

True, but other varients had them. See Apwar Trigits escape fighter.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Grand Admiral Thrawn similarly added shields to TIE Interceptors, though no hyperdrives/navicomputers.

In the Heir to the Empire-Comic "ordinary" TIEs were shown to leave hyperspace.

Ender wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Grand Admiral Thrawn similarly added shields to TIE Interceptors, though no hyperdrives/navicomputers.

True, but other varients had them. See Apwar Trigits escape fighter.

That wasn't a refutation; just an added example.

Vympel wrote:Admiral Zaarin's TIE Interceptors had shields.

Not all of them. Zarrin had some fighters modified, but most remained standard.