Space Marines Versus Stormtroopers.

[His Divine Shadow]

I believe it'll be able to shift most of the energy away from other ground weapons of anti-armor class anyway.

And what about the Titan? Is the only way to kill it by simple firepower?
Can't fast and small units approach it and take it down by hitting weak points and such?

[His Divine Shadow]

Imperial Walkers, we know them already, although the Mk. II AT-AT is an unknown, it carries turbolasers instead of blasters though, could kick serious ass, probably have even further range than 17km.


There is a whole load on my site on ground forces and shit too.


Also while we are on the subject of 40K and the imps, this is like totally offtopic, did you know an Exectuor class vessel has enough power to be able to use gravity-shock devices to do a full planetary disruption, IOW, major disruption and possible near-shattering of a planet, but doesn't because it's conventional weapons are powerfull enough to accomplish what it needs
Oh I do believe Executors aren't given the recognition they deserve, thats some SERIOUS power right there.

[His Divine Shadow]

Sorry, I just felt it was my time to gloat about imperial firepower

[SylasGaunt]

Imperator class titans.

Defense Laser

'nuff said

[white_rabbit]

I believe it'll be able to shift most of the energy away from other ground weapons of anti-armor class anyway.

And what about the Titan? Is the only way to kill it by simple firepower?
Can't fast and small units approach it and take it down by hitting weak points and such?

Im sure you do...infact I was almost positive you would...

To kill Titans...you need to use Heavy weapons to strip the Void shields...bare minimum is two layers of Voidshielding. Then you have to take out the armour...which is hefty, even on the legs and joints.
Plus Void shields absorb energy, then shut down, they can come back on line in less than a minute.

IIRC it took about 2-3 Landraiders simultaneous fire to take out a WarHounds first level of shielding, then they managed to get the second layer down.

All the while the Titan was under fire from the general mayhem of this battle, artillery burst all over etc etc ...

From memory, it managed to get its Voids back up, but a crazed Iron Warriors Space Marine named Forrix jumped out of the Raider and climbed up its leg, he then repeatadly bashed the ankle joint with a powerfist damaging the joint..

the Titan shook him off, then was hit by another simultaneous blast while unshielded, the impact knocked it back a little until its entire weight was on the damaged leg...which promptly failed..

The Titan fell, but was relitively undamaged apart from that....until said Iron Warrior (who was a complete nutter BTW) ran up its body while it was trying to get up, stuck a Meltagun at the cockpit, and fired it at pointblank..

He then stuck his Combibolter in the hole and killed the Crew..


Titans are vastly more agile than ATATs and the Imperial walkers, they can stand up from a prone position, jink to avoid enemy fire, and engage in close combat with mega-powerweapons.

Defense Laser

Sylas Gaunt is referring to the Largest class of Titan, the Imperator, the main Imperator class Titan has a defense laser that can reach orbit mounted on its back..

[His Divine Shadow]

Im sure you do...infact I was almost positive you would...

Well thats not unrealistic, I'm not talking about the big guns Titans carry or some such but general anti-vehicle fire.

[white_rabbit]

Im sure you do...infact I was almost positive you would...

Well thats not unrealistic, I'm not talking about the big guns Titans carry or some such but general anti-vehicle fire.

K.....just remember to keep your more Rabid tendancies in line


What are stats on a Viper then ?

[weemadando]

Right, first off, whoever mentioned that AT-ATs would cause a problem...

Whirlwind with missiles with vortex warheads. Aim for their axis of advance and fire. AT-ATs suddenly begin losing legs to the warp.

And my conclusions, without the ISD intervening theere is simply no way for the Galactic Empire to win this.

[consequences]

Since when can a Whirlwind afford to carry Vortex Warheads? Really, give me 2 examples in the entire history of 40k when that has happened, because that will be 2 more times than I have ever seen.
On the Vipers, they were able to withstand the Turbolaser defenses of the Emperor Reborn's palace without difficulty in Dark Empire 2, but do a lot worse against kinetic energy.

[weemadando]

It doesn't as standard, but a warhead could easily be improvised from a vortex grenade.

Its been about 5 years since I played 40K, so correct me if I'm wrong, but can missile launchers still carry vortex warheads (if they could to start with)?

The point of my post was that a vortex weapon is perfect for anti-AT-AT warfare.

[consequences]

And a Vortex grenade is a substantial investment, being 1/4 of the discretionary equipment available to the highest ranking officer. A Vortex missile is worse, representing 1/4 of the firepower of a Warlord Titan sacrificed for an entire battle for one shot. The only artillery piece capable of delivering a Vortex Warhead historically has been the Deathstrike, and that is only good for one shot for an entire battle as well.

[Typhonis 1]

Marines win it..scary thought is how would they react to having a Terminator group board the Stardestroyer?

[His Divine Shadow]

Marines win it..scary thought is how would they react to having a Terminator group board the Stardestroyer?

Automated defences cut them down perhaps?

[His Divine Shadow]

K.....just remember to keep your more Rabid tendancies in line

I do think it's more rabid to think that 40k vehicle weapons are "all that".
But ofcourse SW's ground forces has always been errorenously mis-understood.

What are stats on a Viper then ?

They got turbolasers and energy/shield plating that absorbs energy weapons fire and can redirect that to their weapons, and they did that turbolaser fire from the Emperors palace as pointed out by consequences, thats more impressive than I thought, those vipers will have no problems dealing with similar vehicles from 40k then.


Weemadando:
"Right, first off, whoever mentioned that AT-ATs would cause a problem..."

AT-AT's mark TWO, with turbolasers, not blasters.

[Vendetta]

Vendetta: So you saying the Essential Guide is wrong about Kyle? It claims he is a Jedi Knight and a commando.

If they claim he's a fully functioning Jedi in Dark Forces, then yes, they're wrong, because he isn't, he only gains force abilities in Jedi Knight, the sequel.

The only slightly superhuman thing abouyt Kyle in Dark Forces is the number of guns he can carry, and that's standard for an FPS anyway..

[white_rabbit]

Marines win it..scary thought is how would they react to having a Terminator group board the Stardestroyer?

Automated defences cut them down perhaps?

perhaps not..

Termys live for that sort of environ, close quarters termys would munch their way through a Star Destroyer, blast doors, internal defenses and all...

do think it's more rabid to think that 40k vehicle weapons are "all that".

But...they ARE!!

[white_rabbit]

thought, those vipers will have no problems dealing with similar vehicles from 40k then.

How big are they ?

And why exactly no problems ? they are just so outgunned and generally outclassed its not funny.

Not only will they suffer tremendously against the vast array of kinetic and explosive weapons, the Energy weapons of 40k Ground vehicles are just plainly more powerful!

I mean, can you honestly say that an AT-AT could take out a city ?

The point of my post was that a vortex weapon is perfect for anti-AT-AT warfare

ANY heavy weapon is perfect for Anti-AT-AT warfare, they are slow moving, and vunerable to fast, well armed troops and craft.

They lack shielding, close defense weapons, and are just these big walking targets.

They are just begging for artillery/airstrikes and interception by the Imperiums heavy armour and heavy troops.

Take a leg down, and you take the AT-AT, if it remains standing, then its an even more vunerable target.

40k Titans/super-walkers have regenerative shields, Heavy armour, vastly superior speed, agility and weaponry..

40k armour is mobile, well equipped with targetting and sensors and well armed with both armour piercing projectile weapons, anti infantry, weapons, High explosive AP rounds, tank/heavy infantry busting plasma weapons, supression fire weapons, High energy Lasers, burst lasers, massive flamers that can threaten even Space marines..

Artillery support is immense and powerful, Basilisk mobile guns, with several types of ammo, including Anti vehicle munitons, HE rounds,Manticore heavy missles, that are the length of a frikking Tank!, mobile Heavy mortar platforms, etc etc..

The basic Imperial guardsmen, has a rifle that on its normal setting will punch THROUGH several feet of hardened concrete, and cause such damage to stone fortifications that they collapse (Pawns of Chaos..page 2!)

On high setting they are as damaging as bolters, which are semi-auto-full auto guns that fire .75 cal mass reactive armour pierceing warheads!

These things bounce off Power armour..!

The Imperium dosent need vortexs to take down Imperial armour,

You can swear by the supposed kiloton level yield of a Laser cannon, which it may well have...at a few milimeters away from the end of the gun, but that just doesnt pan out when you look at the weapons effects even in the books!

They seem to lose a hell of a lot of that kiloton on the way to the target..

Please resist flaming me, I would actually like to know how you justify that sort of firepower, including the way a Stormys rifle is going to just punch straight through a Marines armour...

[NecronLord]

This has gone far beyond the original post, which was 1000 Marines with kit, vs. 1,000 stormies with kit

There are no titans in there, very few marine chapters have any of their own. (a few of the first founding chapers probably have them stashed somewhere) It also means no AT-ATs, or war droids as these are both from the imperial army.
Without direct fleet intervention except for deployment, here is what will happen.
Thunderhawks preliminary bombard the stormies killing at least a third of them. (TIEs are from the imperial fleet and so are not included)
Stormies regroup.
Strange annoying ST style effect appears behind storme commander
Terminator captain/Chapeter master chops commanders head off wile his guards dispatch the nearby stormies.
Thunderhawks and drop pods deploy marines at practically point blank range.
Stormies are practically wiped out with only a few dozen casualties for the Marines

[His Divine Shadow]

Termys live for that sort of environ, close quarters termys would munch their way through a Star Destroyer, blast doors, internal defenses and all...

Why? I don't see whats so great about them and why they should somehow be able to withstand shitloads of firepower?

But...they ARE!!

You are joking now right?

How big are they?

Quite big, size of several tanks

And why exactly no problems ? they are just so outgunned and generally outclassed its not funny.

Why? I see this coolness issue about 40k but it doesn't seem to make horribly good arguments nor convince people here.
They got frickin turbolasers, thats not something you outgun easily, they withstood massed turbolaser fire from the Emperors palace, they are sure as hell not outgunned or outclassed by any standard energy weapons I've seen in 40k.

Not only will they suffer tremendously against the vast array of kinetic and explosive weapons, the Energy weapons of 40k Ground vehicles are just plainly more powerful!

And you have NEVER ever proven this to be true, and turbolasers sure as hell are on par I say, especially those on a fortress.
I mean give some examples why they are more powerfull, we know that SW vehicles can mount several hundred gigawatts, and shields.

I mean, can you honestly say that an AT-AT could take out a city ?

Yes, the movie is proof of that, it could easily level a city with several high power shots.

The basic Imperial guardsmen, has a rifle that on its normal setting will punch THROUGH several feet of hardened concrete, and cause such damage to stone fortifications that they collapse (Pawns of Chaos..page 2!)

The basic clonetrooper rifle make a .5 crater in ferrocrete, and ferrocrete is the foundation that Coruscant rests on, thats some stupidly powerfull shots there, the low-end makes it a 8MJ bolts.

You can swear by the supposed kiloton level yield of a Laser cannon, which it may well have...at a few milimeters away from the end of the gun, but that just doesnt pan out when you look at the weapons effects even in the books!

No it doesn't, the books keep it on target, like the YVH droid that took out a skipper in space that created a huge explosion in the sky.
I've not seen jack-shit that speaks against it thats for sure.
And ofcourse there is not just that wich counts, blasters are plasma weapons while lasguns are lasers, that'll give them better penetration while blasters achieve more of an explosive effect for instance.

They seem to lose a hell of a lot of that kiloton on the way to the target.

Where? looks like they got I think.

Please resist flaming me, I would actually like to know how you justify that sort of firepower, including the way a Stormys rifle is going to just punch straight through a Marines armour..

I've not said it, and stop including other people when you reply to me and not separate them, it's confusing

The biggest problem is the under-appreciation SW forces get, most people just think weak blaster and crappy stormies, both are wrong I say.

[His Divine Shadow]

Necronlord, list what the 1000 stormies and marines have beyond marines having lasguns and stormies having blasters.

[His Divine Shadow]

This is why I want actual figures for 40k, or sites that contain info on their units, it can't be that hard to find some.

[Vendetta]

A Standard Marine is equipped with a Bolter and Jump Pack, and wears Powe Armour.

[His Divine Shadow]

A Standard Marine is equipped with a Bolter and Jump Pack, and wears Powe Armour.

Ok, a bolter is a weapon that fires physical projectiles, any calcs on it?
Same goes for the power armor.

Ah yes I found some info on the armor:
"This is a complete enclosing armour as worn by Space Marines. It is made from thick ceramite plates and would be heavy and cumbersome but for electrically motivated fibre bundles implanted in the armour to replicate the movements of the wearer and supplement his strength. Power armour is fully sealed to provide protection against gas weapons and hard vacuum it also commonly includes numerous auxiliary systems such as communicators, auto-senses, etc. Power armour increases a characters strength by 1 when wearing the armour."
Sounds like space-trooper armor.

Does sounds like Space Marines have better equipment than stormies yes.

[Vendetta]

Additional:

A Space Marine army is broken into ten man Tactical Squads, one of which will have a heavy weapon of some kind. Each tactical squad often has a Rhino armoured transport.

Marines are deployed either from Thunderhawk gunships or from Drop Pods.

Marines have skimmers (lowish altitude repulsorcraft), speeder bikes, Land Raiders, and Dreadnoughts for support. (these are part of the Marine chapter)

Marine chapters contain several heroes, including psykers like Chaplains and Inquisitors.

Elite marines frequently wear Terminator Armour, which is even heavier than normal Power Armour.

There are also Marine Scout squads, which are the lesser of the general marine types, not as heavily armoured, but capable of infilration movement.

[NecronLord]

Of course, the stormies are far more common than marines. PS normally the marines don't have the jump packs. Its an upgrade.