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Gil Hamilton wrote:

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:As someone said, it might be enough for some start-up procedure of the sub-start up system which starts up the startup system which starts the reactor. But that's about all the energy you can get off a solar panel system that size even if it is 100% efficient

That's even a little odd consider how small they can make high density battery packs in StarWars. They can put a battery in a blaster with enough energy make concrete walls explode like grenades and with multiple shots, but they can't run their sub-systems off one? The solar panels on TIE fighters are really tricksy things as to what they do.

Going by the Incredible Cross Sections, they are connected to the engines and ionize the radioactive fuel that makes the ship go. Even though that's a really fucked up explaination on quite a few levels, that's the one the canon source on the matter has to say.

Except the TPM ICS says that panels like that are for cooling. Retcon!

Gil Hamilton wrote:

YT300000 wrote:The original ICS isn't canon IIRC. That only applies to the Ep. II ICS. Besides, its [Saxton's theory] a far more rational explanation, far more likely, and more believable.

EDIT: Clarified.

I thought all the ICS were all low end canon. That's what I've been told. Besides, they are refered as solar panels in lots of other places.

And it doesn't matter if Saxton's theory is a million times more rational and likely. Unless he puts it in a book and gets that book officially endorsed, it ain't official or canon. There are tons of things that could have a more rational explaination than the official one, but it's the official one that counts in the end.

As I told you, the solar panel idea is so stupid, even if a movie character backed it up, we'd still rate it as incompetent dialogue and dismiss it.

Lord of the Farce wrote:It's not a contradiction when you consider that Corran and Gavin were most likely shot in different places, hit by possibly different blaster settings, and how much longer it took Gavin recover.

Both were shot in the chest/gut (main body mass area) by storm trooper blaster rifles.

Lord of the Farce wrote:The apparent value of body armour does drop a bit when a lot of people walk around with the equivalent of mini-AMR. Then again, if we were to consider the Rebels to be exceptions rather than the rule when it comes to weapons that can easily incapacitate Stormtroopers, would you rather have the armour, or be without?

I personally would always prefer the armor, just like modern soldiers, and even most modern cops (maybe this is a US only thing?) wear their BPV and khevlar vests/helmets. My arguement is just that the ST armor is not as effective as some here believe it to be, not that it is worthless (much like the ST's themselves).

Lord of the Farce wrote:For Luke and Han, we don't have any idea of what potential weapon they might have had on hand (perhaps a "hydro" hammer or two), or what help they had (Obi-Wan == Jedi), nor how they actually did it (maybe Chewie shoves their heads forward, then L&H clobber the base of their skull).
By the way, do you know anybody who can toss around head-sized rocks like they were made of styrofoam? Those "fucking teady bears" (sic) certainly could.
By the way, something else mentioned in "Tatooine Ghost" about Stormtrooper armour characteristics: It makes their wearer immune to stun shots.

And yes, it's amazing how effectively those ewoks could toss around rocks which probably weighed as much as they did.
The bit below does throw a wrench in the "immune to stun shots" part... Cause the ST armor worn by Luke & Han did not have any blaster markers on them which would mean they had to be stunned.

Rogue 9 wrote:1.) Getting whacked by a Wookiee will mess you up. Period.

2.) There were shots fired in the Falcon; those stormtroopers weren't just whacked on the head.

3.) They were still moving and fighting after having those bigass rocks dumped on their heads. An unarmored human would have a broken neck and fractured/splattered skull from a stone that size dropped from that height. The armor did a damned good job of absorbing KE there.

2) Were the shots fired against the ST's or the Tech crew I can't remember?
3) Yeah about that, the armor does not have any type of neck support or reinforcement that I'm aware of... How did they not have broken necks? No matter how much energy was actually absorbed the sharp jolt of the rock hitting their head/upper body should'a snapped their necks.

Saethar

saethar wrote:Both were shot in the chest/gut (main body mass area) by storm trooper blaster rifles.

The human torso is a pretty big target, with a number of vital organs of different values when it comes to mortal wounds.

I personally would always prefer the armor, just like modern soldiers, and even most modern cops (maybe this is a US only thing?) wear their BPV and khevlar vests/helmets. My arguement is just that the ST armor is not as effective as some here believe it to be, not that it is worthless (much like the ST's themselves).

If I'm not mistaken, and I very much doubt that I am on this, the statement that each suit of Stormtrooper armour is valued at around the same as a cheap SW spacecraft is an officially stated fact, not a belief. It's even explicitly stated in the SW Visual Dictionary that these armour are made to the "highest standards in the Empire".

The bit below does throw a wrench in the "immune to stun shots" part... Cause the ST armor worn by Luke & Han did not have any blaster markers on them which would mean they had to be stunned.

Unless we have good reason to chuck out the evidence that Stormtrooper armour makes the wearer immune to stun (fair bit of "Tatooine Ghost" storyline does hinge on this), the best and the only proper thing to do is to attempt to rationalise this. But really, the answer is simple: Immune actually means immune in practically all situations, but a point blank stun shot to the neck (protected only by the bodysuit) will still work (but only to a degree, perhaps).

3) Yeah about that, the armor does not have any type of neck support or reinforcement that I'm aware of... How did they not have broken necks? No matter how much energy was actually absorbed the sharp jolt of the rock hitting their head/upper body should'a snapped their necks.

Perhaps the bodysuit is not just an inert covering?

Lord of the Farce wrote:If I'm not mistaken, and I very much doubt that I am on this, the statement that each suit of Stormtrooper armour is valued at around the same as a cheap SW spacecraft is an officially stated fact, not a belief. It's even explicitly stated in the SW Visual Dictionary that these armour are made to the "highest standards in the Empire".

The entire point of this thread is that the "highest standards in the Empire" basicly suck, ie we are talking about TIE's and got side tracked about ST armor. Oh and the "expense" associated with the ST armor is more likely to be because of the "add-ons" not the armor it self. For example they are built in comms, targeting enhancers , full enviro systems, etc... That would cost WAY more than the armor it self any day.

Lord of the Farce wrote:Unless we have good reason to chuck out the evidence that Stormtrooper armour makes the wearer immune to stun (fair bit of "Tatooine Ghost" storyline does hinge on this), the best and the only proper thing to do is to attempt to rationalise this. But really, the answer is simple: Immune actually means immune in practically all situations, but a point blank stun shot to the neck (protected only by the bodysuit) will still work (but only to a degree, perhaps).

Yes, and the clone wars was about crazy wacked out clones (book, Zahn) not about a clone army built by the Republic (movie, Lucas).
I think not. Just because an author gets it in their head that something is so does not make it so no matter how much they want it to be. There's never been anything in the movies, or novelizations to support this idea that ST armor protects against stun bolts.

Lord of the Farce wrote:Perhaps the bodysuit is not just an inert covering?

It would be a fully enviro covering at best, but that doesn't change that the neck portion had no built in support system to protect from that type of attack.

Saethar

saethar wrote:The entire point of this thread is that the "highest standards in the Empire" basicly suck, ie we are talking about TIE's and got side tracked about ST armor. Oh and the "expense" associated with the ST armor is more likely to be because of the "add-ons" not the armor it self. For example they are built in comms, targeting enhancers , full enviro systems, etc... That would cost WAY more than the armor it self any day.

Unless you have some sort of evidence that shows that Stormtrooper armour (and specialised variants) comes nowhere close to the best that is available in galactic standards (for it's class, since it is obviously not comparable to powered units like Spacetrooper and Darktrooper armour), EU descriptions of TIE fighters remain the exception.

Yes, and the clone wars was about crazy wacked out clones (book, Zahn) not about a clone army built by the Republic (movie, Lucas).
I think not. Just because an author gets it in their head that something is so does not make it so no matter how much they want it to be. There's never been anything in the movies, or novelizations to support this idea that ST armor protects against stun bolts.

Sorry, but unless something in G-canon (by the new classification) or other C-canon contradicts it, there is no reason to chuck it out if it can be easily rationalised.

It would be a fully enviro covering at best, but that doesn't change that the neck portion had no built in support system to protect from that type of attack.

Or maybe it's designed to harden up if the amount of force applied to it goes above a certain tolerance.

saethar wrote: Yes, and the clone wars was about crazy wacked out clones (book, Zahn) not about a clone army built by the Republic (movie, Lucas).
I think not. Just because an author gets it in their head that something is so does not make it so no matter how much they want it to be. There's never been anything in the movies, or novelizations to support this idea that ST armor protects against stun bolts.

Actually, that's not totally true. The Clone Wars was a backlash against clones that went mad, and were supposedly utilised by dark jedi to devastate the Republic. We have to wait till ROTS come out, because so far, the EU has only started scratching the begining of the Clone Wars campaign, but even so, it has already had at least 2 Jedi that went mad or turned(Clone Wars, Galactic Campaigns, Shatterpoint)


If clone casualties increase significantly, its possible that accelerated cloning techniques, using months instead of Karrde a year as well as flash learning, as opposed to the Kamino 9 years of training may still result in "mad" clones following dark jedi about. This may have been the history that's force-fed to the general public.

The Clone wars as presented by Zahn was the result of GL playing the cards to close to the chest (assuming of course that GL knew what the clone wars were before AOTC). He didn't tell anyone what the clone wars were - or even that the Clone Wars is what was ultimately responsible for the end of the Republic. As a result we get an entire chunk of EU that will not easily intergrate with the new G Level canon (am I right that all three sources you listed are C Level?).

Saethar

Mass-production of Jango clones or extra clones from other manufacturers and sources must be encorporated by six months or so after Geonosis at least; there are enormous droid armies and the extrapolated number of Clonetrooper casualties exceeds the original quantity ready for deployment.

saethar wrote:The Clone wars as presented by Zahn was the result of GL playing the cards to close to the chest (assuming of course that GL knew what the clone wars were before AOTC). He didn't tell anyone what the clone wars were - or even that the Clone Wars is what was ultimately responsible for the end of the Republic. As a result we get an entire chunk of EU that will not easily intergrate with the new G Level canon (am I right that all three sources you listed are C Level?).

Saethar

No. Actually, I phrased it wrongly. It should have been Clone Wars:Galactic Campaigns(the computer game) as well as Shatterpoint, the novel.