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There was no history between Kirk and Bateson, AFAIK. Bateson is a Starfleet captain from the era between TOS and TNG (when the officers wore maroon jackets, like in the movies). His ship got stuck in some temporal loop for decades and didn't get out until the Enterprise D also got stuck and they both got out.

Sidewinder wrote:

and because they gave him new ship is a little to stupid.

Kirk stole his old ship, for a personal reason at that. Bateson couldn't 'steal' his ship, they scapped it. In Bateson's view, it was only a decade or two old, while the beuracracy thought it was over a hundred.

Sorry, I haven't seen those episodes. What's the history between Kirk and Bateson?

It's a compariaon/contrast, not a realtionship

Kirk wanted his ship and stole the E-Nil in ST3
Bateson wanted his ship but could not steal it

Darth Fanboy wrote:Fuckin A Awesome, first Mark finishes a new Manifest Destiny II and now this, still very much enjoying this story.

MD 2? Where?

Sidewinder wrote:

and because they gave him new ship is a little to stupid.

Kirk stole his old ship, for a personal reason at that. Bateson couldn't 'steal' his ship, they scapped it. In Bateson's view, it was only a decade or two old, while the beuracracy thought it was over a hundred.

Sorry, I haven't seen those episodes. What's the history between Kirk and Bateson?

Hmmm, I wasn't clear. I meant, Kirk stole Kirks ship when he felt rebelious. AFAIK, Kirk and Baetson, while roughly the same time period, never crossed paths.

Ender wrote:

Darth Fanboy wrote:Fuckin A Awesome, first Mark finishes a new Manifest Destiny II and now this, still very much enjoying this story.

MD 2? Where?

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=58650

Where have you been man? Seriously, once you have finished reading this fine work, you MUST read MD II

Ender wrote:

Darth Fanboy wrote:Fuckin A Awesome, first Mark finishes a new Manifest Destiny II and now this, still very much enjoying this story.

MD 2? Where?

Keep this out of someone else's story please guys.

Great read Knife. Very Clancy feel to it for me (and I haven't really read any Clancy. Must be the movies I'm vibing)

Variable, over.

Knife, a question, where you get your info on the Angosians? Or are they your creation?

EDIT:

Question answered, thanks kind sir!

Darth Fanboy wrote:Knife, a question, where you get your info on the Angosians? Or are they your creation?

The Angosians were featured on the TNG episode 'The Hunted'. Basically, the Angosians wanted Fed membership, anyways they just had a war a bit ago and they breed/genetically produce super soldiers. Unfortunately, when the war was done, the super soldiers were kept off planet in 'penal colony' type thingy.

Obviously, the soldiers didn't like that. Danar, who I reference as the Chief Instructor of my Marines, was the soldier who got to Enterprise and created much havoc until the whole shabang came out in the open. Angosia didn't get Fed membership then.

Here's the ST.com link;

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/s ... 68424.html

Mark S wrote:

Ender wrote:

Darth Fanboy wrote:Fuckin A Awesome, first Mark finishes a new Manifest Destiny II and now this, still very much enjoying this story.

MD 2? Where?

Keep this out of someone else's story please guys.

Great read Knife. Very Clancy feel to it for me (and I haven't really read any Clancy. Must be the movies I'm vibing)

Variable, over.

Well, I'm not the first to totally abhore Star Treks depiction of military matters.

Nice going so far.

Knife, just wondering ... what for?

I've got to repeat DF's comment: Effin' A, man. I was just thinking about a scenario like this, too, and lo, there be this piece.

I much eagerly await the next chapter.

Edward Yee wrote:Knife, just wondering ... what for?

Chapter 7

All men should have a drop of treason in their veins, if nations are not to go soft like so many sleepy pears.
--Rebecca West



SS Free Enterprise.
In orbit above Helena IV.

Lt. Steven Decker led his Marines through the Jefferies Tubes that criss-crossed the interior of the ship. He had wanted to go with Hathaway in the initial mission when the plan was originally proposed, but the leader of the Z-teams needed a good man to lead an assault on the Engineering Room and Decker was the man.

Decker had trained with Hathaway on Angosia and had fought many battles along side the young Lieutenant during the Dominion war. If it needed to be done, Dan Hathaway would fine a way and when Dan Hathaway needed a good officer in the field, he always turned to Steve Decker.

Lt. Decker figured that he was as close to a friend as Hathaway had. Most people found Hathaway distant, emotionally that is. Quiet and reserved. Decker just understood that Hathaway did not feel the need to talk unless something important needed to be said.

Like Hathaway, Decker had been stunned and later angry when Starfleet decommissioned the Z-teams after the war. They had done their duty, and done it well. Surely the Federation would need them again. With all the talk of peace and love the council spewed, there always seemed to be a war, or a battle, or a situation that needed a resolution. The Z-teams were perfect and yet, the politicians wanted them to go away.

Decker felt the warm tingle of rage in his belly as he remembered the dark days after the war, where everything he’d worked for was taken from him. The men and women who he’d bonded with and shared battle with were reassigned to mundane duties fit for the shippies and not battle hardened Marines.

He held on to that rage, let it warm his whole body as he and the four troopers behind him moved in to position next to the hatch that lead to his target. He didn’t bother speaking commands; his Marines knew what to do and were only waiting for his hand signal to send them into action.

Lt. Decker didn’t let them wait long, making a fist with his left hand, he motioned them to halt, then pointed to two Marines and then at last pointed to the hatch. With precision movements, two of his Marines moved to the hatch and opened it. Tagowa covered her partner as he slid down the ladder then she slid after him letting Decker cover her.

Across the way, four more Marines were exiting a Jefferies tube on the opposite wall and soon the whole squad stood in the Engineering Room and shouts of ‘clear’ rang from all corners.

Scattered across the room, various Starfleet personnel were lying on the floor, most in very uncomfortable positions as their stunned bodies fell from phaser blasts. But standing next to the Chief Engineering Post was still a shippie who wasn’t stunned yet. The old man was nervous and sweating buckets down his bald head, but even more interesting was that both hands were full, one with a plasma cutter and the other with some wire or ODN cable, Decker wasn’t sure.

He moved up behind Tagowa who was screaming at the man to get down and he wouldn’t get hurt but the old man in the Commander’s uniform wouldn’t and kept babbling about some techno thing and if he was shot he’d cut it.

Decker moved up next to his Marine and had his phaser rifle in the high ready position. At this range, he hardly needed the scope or sighting system to hit the Engineer, but years of practice and combat made sighting in the weapon more habit than breathing.

He motioned for Tagowa to be quiet and said to the Starfleet shippie; “Lay down on the floor Commander. No one will harm you if you comply.”

The sweating man replied, “Fool. This is a plasma cutter and this is the main power cable to the anti matter containment in the core.” He held up each slightly as he spoke.

“If you don’t get the hell out of here, I’ll cut it and five minutes later, we all go boom.” He threatened.

Decker was watching the man closely as he spoke. He was nervous, scared even, but he also was convinced in his actions. Decker could not talk him out of it if he had hours, and the Lt. didn’t have hours.

Chief Engineer Hanson began his threat again, “You and all of you traitors get the hell out of my Engine Room, or I’ll cut this….” He began to lift the cable again in a threatening motion.

As soon as the cable was six inches away from the torch, Decker shot the man with his phaser rifle. The full power blast hit the Engineer dead center in his chest and Decker and his troops watched the NDF reaction eat through the mans body until seconds later there was nothing left. The plasma torches toppled to the ground and Tagowa picked it up, the cable the Engineer was using as a threat simply sagged to the floor.

“I only needed to move my finger a quarter of an inch; you needed to move your hand six inches. You loose, old man.” Decker muttered at the empty space where the man had died in.

Lt. Decker turned his attention to the rest of the Engineering Room as his Marines spread out and accomplished their various tasks. Soon, he received a signal and he opened the locked doors and a stream of rebel shippies flooded into the room to take control from the soldiers.

Decker was just about to pull his troops back to a secondary position and to get out of the shippies way when the young Commander who was to be in charge of the Room motioned him aside by another control station.

“Was anyone over here when you got here?” He asked, seriously and, Decker thought, a bit frantic.

“No.” He said simply. “Why?”

“This station is still active. They’ve rigged themselves into an ODN line.” The Commander said as he was studying the display. “I don’t get it though. This is the Deflector control. What the hell would the be….” He slowed down as information poured across the screen.

Decker read the data scroll and immediately activated his comm. “Lt. Hathaway, this is Decker. We have a problem sir. They got a message out on the Deflector.”

*************************************************************

Around every planetary system there is a cloud of debris. Rocks and ice that are little more than leftovers from when the system was formed, they were not dense, nor particularly dangerous, but once in a while you could find a large chunk of ice floating out past the planets. A comet waiting to happen, if gravity would just give it the right tug.

Behind just such a piece of ice and rock hung the USS Titan, the sleek ship tucked itself right up against the would-be comet to shield itself from any sensors in the Helena IV system. Its running lights off and its portholes dark. The ship was hiding.

On the bridge, Captain William T. Riker paced his bridge which had the effect of making the rest of his command staff just as nervous as he was. The lights were dark, a mere red glare from the emergency lights giving off just enough illumination for the crew to work by, and most of the ships systems were running on minimal power to further keep the presence of the Titan secret.

“Sir,” A loud male voice sounded through the quiet bridge as Lt. Commander Gutierrez spoke from the tactical station behind where his captain paced. “I’m picking up a faint subspace pulse from the Helena system.” He reported.

Riker was there almost immediately, his large frame almost squeezing out the tactical officer from his own station. “A pulse?” Asked the Captain.

Gutierrez response, “Yes sir. I’m having difficulty picking it up. I’ve boosted it through the subspace comm. systems. There is no data encrypted on it, just the same three pulses at different intervals. Three short pulses, then three long ones, then three more short. It recycles and repeats, sir.”

There was a twinkle in Riker’s eye as a sly smile spread across his face, “Cleaver girl, Shelby.” He looked back up to his tactical officer. “Three short, three long, three short. Old Morse code. No time to explain, but it’s an SOS from the Enterprise.”

He jumped back down to where his command chair was and started issuing orders, “Red Alert, power up all systems, we’re going in.” He commanded and immediately a blaring alarm sounded through out the ship.

*************************************************************

With a tingling sensation and the familiar blue blur, Ambassador Picard came out of the transporter beam and materialized onto the deck of his old ship. Except, instead of a friendly smile from a Starfleet officer, he was greeted with a grim frown from a man in an old Starfleet uniform. A traitor to Picard’s nation, though Picard had never met him.

The Ambassador heard Admiral Leyton’s voice from beside him scold the transporter operator on his demander, Leyton was telling him, “Ambassador Picard is our guest, Lieutenant. We wouldn’t want him to feel, unwelcome.”

Leyton motioned for Picard to follow him and the two men walked out of the transporter room and through the miles of corridor that made up the interior of a Sovereign class ship. Picard didn’t talk to him, didn’t respond to the occasional conversation Leyton tried to start. The man was hopeless and intent on his war. Nothing Picard could say would change that.

The two reached the bridge and the silence between the men was replaced by the hustle and bustle of the command deck. The five department heads that represented the various functions on the bridge were calling off status reports and following check lists as the large ship was brought back to life. Her main power was brought back on line and various ship systems were being turned back on or rebooted.

Erika Benteen saw her mentor walk on to the bridge and could not help but smile to her self. ‘The old man was a genius’ she thought. Only he could come up with such a plan, to steal a starship right out from under its crew. And if the fools at the Council thought this was a good trick, just let them wait until his next one.

Noting the look in Benteen’s eyes, Picard turned and spoke to Leyton for the fist time since the surface, “Your lackeys really do have an affection for you. I wonder, Admiral, is it a cult of personality you have fostered here?”

Leyton spared a smug look for Picard, “Jean-Luc, I’m hurt. While I will admit a certain egotistical pleasure of being the leader of such an endeavor, I’m doing this for the Federation. All these men and women are doing it for the Federation.” He smiled, “I’m charming, though not as charming as you, Jean-Luc, but I couldn’t hoodwink all these people into something like this.

They’re here because what I said was true, and they know it. Most of the people that signed up with me didn’t need convincing Picard. I did not sway very many, nor did I need to. The Federation is broke and I am not the only one who sees it.”

Leyton took Picard by the shoulder and steered him off to one of the alcoves on the bridge, “You might want to believe that I am some evil genius who has seduced and tricked people into fighting a war for me. You won’t be the last in this fight. But if you open your eyes to the truth, the truth that these people are patriots and it is the Federation that has let her people down, not the other way around, you’ll understand the motivation behind these people and I assure you, it is not me.”

Admiral Leyton’s monologue was disturbed by an alarm that went off at the con. Lt. Perim’s hands danced across the consol investigating the alarm. When the beautiful Trill woman looked up at her Captain, concern was in her voice. “Captain, I’ve got a warp signature moving in towards us. ETA, one minute.”

“Damn,” Benteen swore. “That was too quick. Some one must have been waiting for Shelly’s little signal.” She said mostly to herself, and then looked up at the Admiral.

“Sir, the Free Enterprise isn’t ready yet. We have partial main power to most systems but not enough to go into battle. I suggest you transfer your flag to the Rebel Spirit.” She said.

Leyton’s eyes hardened, “No, Erika. I’ll stay here. Order the Spirit to engage the newcomer. Bateson should be able to buy you enough time to get this old girl moving again.”

Benteen replied to her superior, “Understood, Admiral.” Then looked over to Kell Perim, “Order Rebel Spirit to engage the incoming ship.”

What class is the Titan?

Zed Snardbody wrote:What class is the Titan?

Supposedly a 'Luna class', though nothing cannon. The Luna comes from a series of books coming out highlighting Riker in em. Supposedly the Luna is a large scale survey ship, so that's how I'm going to treat her. A Nova the size of an Intrepid, I suppose.

Same deal say's she's more sensors and labs than phasers.

Read Chapter seven. Although you incorrectly named William Riker as

Captain John T. Riker

I like the touch of using familliar faces in the UFFP, Kell's the helm officers from Insurrection, yes?

Love the term "shippies", also eagerly anticipating the upoming space battle. Here's hoping Slick Willie Riker gets his ass handed to him. *raises glass*

Excellent work with the Z Teams also.

Pretty good, although I'm having trouble thinking of Leyton as a person as a charismatic person that you are trying to protray him as. In "Paradise Lost", my impression was that Leyton used his authority as Admiral rather than inspiring speeches to rile up the troops. Leyton couldn't even convince the Lakota's Commander, who was Leyton's personal friend and served under him, to open fire on the Defiant with photon torpedoes. You probably know this better than I do, but Starfleeters would have serious doubts if ordered to fire on other Starfleeters, just like the real military would question orders if they were ordered to fire on their own units. Either Leyton has placed his handpicked men on the bridge of the Rebel Spirit and somehow he got resources he didn't in Paradise Lost (he seemed a very distant and not very likeable fellow), or things are so bad that active members of the military would willingly fire on their brothers in arms.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want to see more portrayal of the rot and decay of the Federation. For the rebellion to have enough support to become a threat, there has to be some kind of general discontent among the ordinary citizenery. The Federation has held together for pretty long. I would think the Dominion would be the straw that broke the camel's back, if you want to have an economic reason why the Federation would be going downhill. Maybe the Dominion War really stripped worlds of resources and pushed the Federation to the limit. Maybe the Federation took "extraordinary measures" in the war, for example appropriating member world's resources and conscripting citizenery or grave violations of the Federation Charter.

Let's face it, although normally unheard of, disbanding military units isn't enough to cause a rebellion. There has to be something more . Another angle is the holoslaves like EMH Mk. I who mine dilithium, which would be direct violations of the Federation Charter's spirit, although not literally.

Brian

Actually, Leyton isn't using any Charisma. He's doesn't need any. He's just pointed out to like minded people the problems that exist in the Federation, and that they need to be corrected.

As to the Z-teams, the Feddies allowed Hathaway to keep in touch with his mean. It's easy to send messages between them, and then they just jump ship and meet up. It's not that hard.

Crazedwraith wrote:Read Chapter seven. Although you incorrectly named William Riker as

Captain John T. Riker

I like the touch of using familliar faces in the UFFP, Kell's the helm officers from Insurrection, yes?

I can't believe I did that! I must have been thining Jonathon Franks when I wrote it. Bahh!

And yes, thats Kell from Inserection. One of the motivating factos of me writing this fic, is that TNG and on ward was so full of excelent and story worthy secondary and background characters, that it's amazing that some haven't been used in movies or new shows, ect.

Darth Fanboy wrote:Love the term "shippies", also eagerly anticipating the upoming space battle. Here's hoping Slick Willie Riker gets his ass handed to him. *raises glass*

Yeah, well RL Marines and seamen have their little rivalries going on, I see no reason why future people in simular billets wouldn't either. The Marines would be disdainful of the Navy for any attempt of being tactical in a ground fight and no crewman would want a jarhead next to his complicated computer or buttons and switches.

Excellent work with the Z Teams also.

*shrug* Thanks. Basic small unit tactics driving them, amazing that the Feds didn't have anything like it before.

Figured your's rated it's own post;

brianeyci wrote:Pretty good, although I'm having trouble thinking of Leyton as a person as a charismatic person that you are trying to protray him as. In "Paradise Lost", my impression was that Leyton used his authority as Admiral rather than inspiring speeches to rile up the troops.

The only one Leyton has given a speach to so far is Picard. As was mentioned in the last chapter, Leyton really didn't have to go out on a stump and preach the word, there were already scores of people ready to 'do something' but just needed a leader or a cause.

Leyton couldn't even convince the Lakota's Commander, who was Leyton's personal friend and served under him, to open fire on the Defiant with photon torpedoes.

Well, to be fair, that was before a horrible war and no one knew how bad a war with the Dominion would be, nor did they necessarily know that they were going to go to war. Leyton's coup was a preemptive thing which caused a moral dilema.

In my world, some people have seen the truth, know the Fed is broken and thus, while some acts like orbital bombardment and shit would be unethical, there is little moral problems.

You probably know this better than I do, but Starfleeters would have serious doubts if ordered to fire on other Starfleeters, just like the real military would question orders if they were ordered to fire on their own units.

We've seen Fed ships fire on Fed ships enough that I see it happening on any capable Captain's ship. Cap'n say's fire, I fire. That's not the problem, the problem you should be asking your self is the repercussions of those actions once people get the time and perspective to think about them.

Either Leyton has placed his handpicked men on the bridge of the Rebel Spirit and somehow he got resources he didn't in Paradise Lost (he seemed a very distant and not very likeable fellow), or things are so bad that active members of the military would willingly fire on their brothers in arms.

Baetson and crew are out of time, sure they've been in the 24th centuary for ~10 years, but they've grown up on Kirks Fed, not necessarily this one. One could imagine that their 'loyalty' goes as far as 'well it's the Fed, not my Fed, but the only Fed around. Better than the Klingon's' type mentality.

Fed rules would not let Bateson go back to 'his' Federation, so maybe when Leyton gave him a chance to turn 'this' Federation into something closer to Bateson's, it was enough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want to see more portrayal of the rot and decay of the Federation. For the rebellion to have enough support to become a threat, there has to be some kind of general discontent among the ordinary citizenery.

I thought I'd gone over that enough in the first few chapters. For all the Kum-by-ya crap the Council spews, how many brutal wars have been fought in the last 20 years? Between the Borg, the Cardassians, the Klingons and the Romulans, now the Dominion, the Federation has been through one war after another almost continuously.

But, instead of having a capable and standing military, they want to explore. "Doesn't any one remember when we used to be explorers?" Said Picard. In the middle of a fucking war????? I gotta believe that some in the 'quasi' military would start getting pissed off about that. How many have to die in an 'exploration' cruiser before we get some combat craft? How many redshirts have to die before we get a dedicated infantry?

How many times do we have to fight the exact same mother fuckers before we bitch slap em and take away their ability to wage war? We won the war, why are we giving away planets and systems? Why are we abondoning people in those systems and when they rebel against their new masters, why are we treating them as our criminals?

Why is there a Starfleet uniform in every major commision, bussiness, institute, and organization? Why does the Council have a subcomittee on every facet of life?

Oh, I see plenty in the Fed that would raise the ire of lots of people.

The Federation has held together for pretty long. I would think the Dominion would be the straw that broke the camel's back, if you want to have an economic reason why the Federation would be going downhill. Maybe the Dominion War really stripped worlds of resources and pushed the Federation to the limit. Maybe the Federation took "extraordinary measures" in the war, for example appropriating member world's resources and conscripting citizenery or grave violations of the Federation Charter.

There are enough reasons that I don't have to make some up, I think.

Let's face it, although normally unheard of, disbanding military units isn't enough to cause a rebellion. There has to be something more . Another angle is the holoslaves like EMH Mk. I who mine dilithium, which would be direct violations of the Federation Charter's spirit, although not literally.

Brian

People with military training would be some of the first to be recruited into shit like this.

Knife wrote:Figured your's rated it's own post;

Thanks

The only one Leyton has given a speach to so far is Picard. As was mentioned in the last chapter, Leyton really didn't have to go out on a stump and preach the word, there were already scores of people ready to 'do something' but just needed a leader or a cause.

Yes, I understand that. However Leyton seems to have more resources than when he tried in PL.

Well, to be fair, that was before a horrible war and no one knew how bad a war with the Dominion would be, nor did they necessarily know that they were going to go to war. Leyton's coup was a preemptive thing which caused a moral dilema.

In my world, some people have seen the truth, know the Fed is broken and thus, while some acts like orbital bombardment and shit would be unethical, there is little moral problems.

General Order 24 is Orbital Bombardment, so it exists in Starfleet. Starfleet controls the only long range communications equipment in the Federation (subspace relay network), so if they wanted to, they could control information quite effectively. I believe there is evidence of this from an episode where there was a planetwide plague, but the episode name escapes me right now.

We've seen Fed ships fire on Fed ships enough that I see it happening on any capable Captain's ship. Cap'n say's fire, I fire. That's not the problem, the problem you should be asking your self is the repercussions of those actions once people get the time and perspective to think about them.

Agreed, obey orders first, ask questions later. But, when push comes to shove, like using quantum torpedoes in Paradise Lost and actually killing, there's a period for thought.

Baetson and crew are out of time, sure they've been in the 24th centuary for ~10 years, but they've grown up on Kirks Fed, not necessarily this one. One could imagine that their 'loyalty' goes as far as 'well it's the Fed, not my Fed, but the only Fed around. Better than the Klingon's' type mentality.

Fed rules would not let Bateson go back to 'his' Federation, so maybe when Leyton gave him a chance to turn 'this' Federation into something closer to Bateson's, it was enough.

That's cool, but one would think that as soon as Bateson had the chance, he would use Spock's slingshot technique to go back to his own time. Maybe that's classified information though, something that Leyton has access too, and has promised Bateson.

I thought I'd gone over that enough in the first few chapters. For all the Kum-by-ya crap the Council spews, how many brutal wars have been fought in the last 20 years? Between the Borg, the Cardassians, the Klingons and the Romulans, now the Dominion, the Federation has been through one war after another almost continuously.

The Borg was one ship that went after Earth, not a Federation-wide threat. They had the potential to be a Federation-wide threat, but ended up being pansies. I always got the impression that the Cardassians were a poor people with a really tough military. The Cardassians lost, but were able to negotiate a settlement cause of the Federation's pacifist policy. There was never any significant war with the Klingons until the Dominion War story arc in DS9, and the Romulans were isolationist and never declared war on the Federation. I'm sorry, but the idea that there were many "brutal wars" is not true.

However, I would think that one brutal war would be enough for most people to get pissed off. The only problem is that we don't see casualties on a planetary scale in the Dominion War. If the Federation has two trillion citizens, and assuming each Starfleet vessel has 1000 personnel, that is not too many casualties. And, most of the casualties would be humans, since Starfleet is mostly humans. I would see a lot of humans getting pissed off at constantly bearing the brunt of wars, while the aliens are content with using humans as meat shields in wars and want to preserve the status quo. So maybe the rebellion is mostly humans/Starfleet and Maquis.

But, instead of having a capable and standing military, they want to explore. "Doesn't any one remember when we used to be explorers?" Said Picard. In the middle of a fucking war????? I gotta believe that some in the 'quasi' military would start getting pissed off about that. How many have to die in an 'exploration' cruiser before we get some combat craft? How many redshirts have to die before we get a dedicated infantry?

Well to be fair a battlecruiser is a battlercruiser, even if it's called a fruitcake. And the Federation did make changes, like get families off ships, when the shit hit the fan in the Dominion War. Another example are of the Federation introducing a real assault rifle in the Type-IIIa's. Maybe you should illustrate how changes went too slow, or were to gradual, for the liking of the rebellion. Like, mentioning legislation in the Federation Council being held up by pacifists or something.

How many times do we have to fight the exact same mother fuckers before we bitch slap em and take away their ability to wage war? We won the war, why are we giving away planets and systems? Why are we abondoning people in those systems and when they rebel against their new masters, why are we treating them as our criminals?

This is good. There should be more Maquis element in the rebellion. The Maquis are already established canon, and we know they were supplied by sympathetic Starfleet personnel. They were wiped out by the Dominion -- but were they? Maybe some survived to continue the fight and hook up with Leyton.

Why is there a Starfleet uniform in every major commision, bussiness, institute, and organization? Why does the Council have a subcomittee on every facet of life?

Again to be fair, businesses like Sisko's dad's restaurant weren't run by Starfleet, the Federation Science Council approving research is probably akin to giving a grant rather than actually requiring their approval to do research because there's the Vulcan Science Council as well, and in Voyager we see an Arbiter who is not wearing a Starfleet Uniform IIRC when he rules on the Doctor's rights.

However, you're right, Starfleet does have an incredible amount of influence, and there is a lot of potential for abuse.

Oh, I see plenty in the Fed that would raise the ire of lots of people.

I don't disagree with this at all. The lack of a free economy should piss enough people off. I just want to see more pissed off people

The Federation has held together for pretty long. I would think the Dominion would be the straw that broke the camel's back, if you want to have an economic reason why the Federation would be going downhill. Maybe the Dominion War really stripped worlds of resources and pushed the Federation to the limit. Maybe the Federation took "extraordinary measures" in the war, for example appropriating member world's resources and conscripting citizenery or grave violations of the Federation Charter.

There are enough reasons that I don't have to make some up, I think.

No you don't, but the question is how the Federation held together with these policies for I would presume nearly half a century if not more. There should be something that is a Duke Ferdinand that caused this, maybe the Betazed debacle, maybe something else.

Let's face it, although normally unheard of, disbanding military units isn't enough to cause a rebellion. There has to be something more . Another angle is the holoslaves like EMH Mk. I who mine dilithium, which would be direct violations of the Federation Charter's spirit, although not literally.

Brian

People with military training would be some of the first to be recruited into shit like this.

Obviously, but I was suggesting more inspiration for the rebellion, like "Free the holoslaves" or something along those lines.

Brian

A good story so far-- thanks for clearing up the confusion regarding Kirk and Bateson. However, I hope the Titan isn't the ONLY ship stationed in the area to backup the Enterprise-- I suggest a couple of warships, like Defiant or Akira class ships-- unless you have a character mention this as proof of the pacifist faction's stupidity or arrogance.

brianeyci wrote:The Maquis are already established canon, and we know they were supplied by sympathetic Starfleet personnel. They were wiped out by the Dominion -- but were they? Maybe some survived to continue the fight and hook up with Leyton.

The question, "What happened to the Maquis?" was asked in an issue of 'Star Trek' magazine. The person who answered readers' mail mentioned a novel, which stated that surviving Maquis were offered a full pardon in exchange for their aid in the Dominion War-- although the person admits it's not canon, he/she believed it was a reasonable possibility.

By the way, this topic-- http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=60396 -- mentioned suppressed racial tension within the Federation, e.g., between Vulcans and humans. Is this conflict going to be brought up in the story?

brianeyci wrote:Yes, I understand that. However Leyton seems to have more resources than when he tried in PL.

So far, all Leyton's done is gather a few ships and raid another ship. Hell, there's even a bit a presedent for that too. The story arc in TNG with the little aliens who take control of people and they have their antenea sticking out of peoples necks.

In that two parter, a ship captain called together three other ships, Enterprise included, and had a pow-wow about how 'something wasn't right with the Admiralty' or some such.

General Order 24 is Orbital Bombardment, so it exists in Starfleet. Starfleet controls the only long range communications equipment in the Federation (subspace relay network), so if they wanted to, they could control information quite effectively. I believe there is evidence of this from an episode where there was a planetwide plague, but the episode name escapes me right now.

Obviously orbital bombardment exsists, I meant like orbital bombardment to kill one guy-type ethical problems. There is enough starfleet v starfleet established in the cannon that what has happened so far isn't that far out there.

Agreed, obey orders first, ask questions later. But, when push comes to shove, like using quantum torpedoes in Paradise Lost and actually killing, there's a period for thought.

That was actually destroying a starfleet ship. So far in my story, they've stunned a couple people and threatened to 'space' more if they didn't surrender. Well, ok, the Chief Engineer got it, but he had the preverbial 'trigger' in his hand. That's not a moral dilemea, it's self preservation.

That's cool, but one would think that as soon as Bateson had the chance, he would use Spock's slingshot technique to go back to his own time. Maybe that's classified information though, something that Leyton has access too, and has promised Bateson.

*sigh* I'd figure that'll be a horrible plot device. It's better to have a pissed off participant who wants to go home but can't and he even knows he can't so that just makes him more pissed. I think it's a worth character development to see it unfold.

The Borg was one ship that went after Earth, not a Federation-wide threat. They had the potential to be a Federation-wide threat, but ended up being pansies. I always got the impression that the Cardassians were a poor people with a really tough military. The Cardassians lost, but were able to negotiate a settlement cause of the Federation's pacifist policy. There was never any significant war with the Klingons until the Dominion War story arc in DS9, and the Romulans were isolationist and never declared war on the Federation. I'm sorry, but the idea that there were many "brutal wars" is not true.

With out running through and noting the specific episodes, the Borg have wiped out atleast one planet, IIRC a couple other colonies have bit it hard under them. They've attacked earth twice, wiping out an entire fleet the first time, and Federation assests more than enough to justify them being a grade A threat. Really, durring TNG nothing visibly happened that showed Starfleet responding to the threat.

The Feds have been at war with the Cardassians twice in the last 15 years (in universe). The first time, the Feds won and still had plenty of boarder skirmishes that resulted in the Federation giving up territory in a classic 'appeasment' like approach.

There have been numerous skirmishes with the Klingons as well, especially with the lead up to the Dominion war. Hell, the Klingons invaded a key Federation outpost for christs sake.

The Romulans have had various skirmishes too, including kidnapping and blatent violation of the neutral zone, not to mention the attempted invasion of a key Federation memeber planet. Sorry, not the peaceful quadrant your thinking.

There has been nothing but threat after threat and out right acts of war against the Federation of 20 years and they've responded to each with lackluster action. Those tasked with protecting the Federation should be getting pissed when they keep getting science ships and called to repell this invasion or stop that incursion, ect.

However, I would think that one brutal war would be enough for most people to get pissed off. The only problem is that we don't see casualties on a planetary scale in the Dominion War. If the Federation has two trillion citizens, and assuming each Starfleet vessel has 1000 personnel, that is not too many casualties. And, most of the casualties would be humans, since Starfleet is mostly humans. I would see a lot of humans getting pissed off at constantly bearing the brunt of wars, while the aliens are content with using humans as meat shields in wars and want to preserve the status quo. So maybe the rebellion is mostly humans/Starfleet and Maquis.

I've always figured that I'll bring elements of the Marqi into it. But I didn't think I'd have to introduce everything in the first few chapters. Relax, man. I do have a plan.

Well to be fair a battlecruiser is a battlercruiser, even if it's called a fruitcake. And the Federation did make changes, like get families off ships, when the shit hit the fan in the Dominion War. Another example are of the Federation introducing a real assault rifle in the Type-IIIa's. Maybe you should illustrate how changes went too slow, or were to gradual, for the liking of the rebellion. Like, mentioning legislation in the Federation Council being held up by pacifists or something.

A battlecruiser that has too many science labs and not enough power generators isn't a battle cruiser.

Again to be fair, businesses like Sisko's dad's restaurant weren't run by Starfleet, the Federation Science Council approving research is probably akin to giving a grant rather than actually requiring their approval to do research because there's the Vulcan Science Council as well, and in Voyager we see an Arbiter who is not wearing a Starfleet Uniform IIRC when he rules on the Doctor's rights.

However, you're right, Starfleet does have an incredible amount of influence, and there is a lot of potential for abuse.

No you don't, but the question is how the Federation held together with these policies for I would presume nearly half a century if not more. There should be something that is a Duke Ferdinand that caused this, maybe the Betazed debacle, maybe something else.

I planned on a more political skewed part later on. Perhaps that is what your missing.

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