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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote: You're right, you will be goddamned. You'll also be dead if you resist. Even if a significant portion of the citizens rebel, which they never would, we'd be looking at a horrible civil war which the military would ultimately win, making all the death and destruction for naught. I don't want to leave this country any more than someone else, but I'm not sticking around for that shit.

Like I said, Don't let the fucking door hit you in the ass you
fucking cocksmoking weasel. You aren't willing to stand up and
FIGHT for your rights, then you don't fucking DESERVE them.
I suggest you move to Britain, where the Government there will
track your every move with a camera.

Freedom is NOT free.

As for the Military, I see you conviently leave out the fact that a massive
majority of the Military defected the last time we did this sort of stuff..

Does the Name Robert E. Lee mean anything to you?

He resigned his comission in the US Army because he couldn't fight
against his home state of Virginia.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Face it, citizens can't fight the government and live to tell about it, and you're no exception.

Then why couldn't the Feds find those Jamaician assholes for 20 days
of terror and sniping in the DC Area, until said Jamacian assholes
GAVE THEMSELVES UP ON A PLATTER?

MKSheppard wrote:

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Face it, citizens can't fight the government and live to tell about it, and you're no exception.

Then why couldn't the Feds find those Jamaician assholes for 20 days
of terror and sniping in the DC Area, until said Jamacian assholes
GAVE THEMSELVES UP ON A PLATTER?

Shep, any reason why they are JAMAICAN assholes and not just assholes??

Stravo wrote: Shep, any reason why they are JAMAICAN assholes and not just assholes??

They ARE illegal Jamaican assholes who got into this country illegally, and
then managed to evade deportation. The 17 year old kid's mother just
got her deportation papers from the US today

The Dark wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Shinova wrote:What does the line in latin say?

"Science is Potential"?

I looked it up; it means "Knowledge is Power." Kinda frightening.

IIRC, Echelon is for overseas, Carnivore was the proposed domestic version of Echelon.

As did I. Except I have had latin lessons unlike whatever image-consultant-with-a-dictionary made that.

They have got their gammar wrong.

it should be "knowlege power is" with the verb at the end, as opposed to a simple english translation. I fear you may be getting a dud intelligence service.

The ususal word order in english broadly follows the lines of;
Subject Verb Object

Whereas in latin (proper latin not vomit upon crappo latin that they seem to use) it is

Subject (adjective) Object (Adverbs and Prepositions) VERB

e.g.

Carthagano Delenda est
Carthenge is Destroyed
not
Carthagano est Delenda

The question is, do you want these incompetent fuckers being able to spy on you?

MKSheppard wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Is the US allowed to use NBCs against its own citizens?

Don't be absurd. That would be the start of the 2nd American Revolution,
with the SOUTH leading the way, HURRAH HURRAH.

We now have the majority of the troops THIS time around

Correct me If i'm wrong, but don't they have the heavy industry and the money?

NecronLord wrote: Correct me If i'm wrong, but don't they have the heavy industry and the money?

Look at all the decaying factories in Detroit and then go take a look at
all those Honda/BMW/ETC plants down south....

StimNeuro wrote:According to US law, it is illegal to spy on your own citizens. That is what Echelon is for. America spies on the UK, using Echelon, and the UK spies on America. America and the UK exchange information. Canada, Australia, and a few other countries are also involved. What is really funny is that Matt Drudge had Bob Barr on Fox News (3-4 years ago, I think) to discuss Echelon. Right when Barr was getting to the details, the satelite hookup between Drudge and Barr died.

Figures...

MKSheppard wrote:Like I said, Don't let the fucking door hit you in the ass you fucking cocksmoking weasel. You aren't willing to stand up and FIGHT for your rights, then you don't fucking DESERVE them.

Excellent. So when can I expect to see you and the other NRA members rise up and fight? After all, the government has already neutralized the constitutional rights to fair trial, due process, and privacy. Should we be expecting The Revolution soon?

Or are you guys just blowing a lot of hot air, sitting here meekly in the pot and slowly boiling like the frog, just like the rest of us?

As for the Military, I see you conviently leave out the fact that a massive majority of the Military defected the last time we did this sort of stuff.. Does the Name Robert E. Lee mean anything to you?

He resigned his comission in the US Army because he couldn't fight
against his home state of Virginia.

Hmmm ... I may not be an American history expert, but didn't the South lose?

Hmmm ... I may not be an American history expert, but didn't the South lose?

Yeah, but unfortunately they got their revenge with The Dukes of Hazard and the ascendance of Country Music. Damn the South!!

Darth Wong wrote: Excellent. So when can I expect to see you and the other NRA members rise up and fight? After all, the government has already neutralized the constitutional rights to fair trial, due process, and privacy. Should we be expecting The Revolution soon?

No, but welcome to the pot

When the Rebellion does come, it IS going to be bloody and violent,
what with the tearing and gnashing of teeth etc etc etc.

After all, we wouldn't be America without an occasional Armed Rebellion
every hundred years or so...

Seriously, the Rebellion will come when the following happens:

The Cost of Compliance to the Government outweighs the Cost of
Shooting them all

Hmmm ... I may not be an American history expert, but didn't the South lose?

The South won in the end. We control American Politics, have most
of the military bases, and of course, COUNTRY MUSIC!!!

NecronLord wrote:

The Dark wrote: As did I. Except I have had latin lessons unlike whatever image-consultant-with-a-dictionary made that.

They have got their gammar wrong.

it should be "knowlege power is" with the verb at the end, as opposed to a simple english translation. I fear you may be getting a dud intelligence service.

The ususal word order in english broadly follows the lines of;
Subject Verb Object

Whereas in latin (proper latin not vomit upon crappo latin that they seem to use) it is

Subject (adjective) Object (Adverbs and Prepositions) VERB

e.g.

Carthagano Delenda est
Carthenge is Destroyed
not
Carthagano est Delenda

The question is, do you want these incompetent fuckers being able to spy on you?

You are correct,but not putting the verb at the end of the sentence is not generally considered a true mistake.However if you write latin in that manner the ghost of Cicero will come after you,that is for sure

--I've been bitching about the larger problem this development stems from since age 8 or so and guess what? I've been met amost entirely by AMBIVALENCE! I complained about this new project to practially everyone in my lab and not a single one of them are going to do anything constructive (and all of them are strongly opposed to it). When are you people going to actually do something about this situation? The closest thing to John Seridan is Al Gore and somehow I don't think he will be able to rise to the occasion (though that doesn't mean I won't lend my support). It is far past time to make a stand or come up with plan B.
-As I see it we need to organize and build secure communication systems (I know how to do both). When that is done we can assess what our chances of stopping the current progression are and either stand and fight or go with plan B (wait out the storm).

MKSheppard wrote:No, but welcome to the pot

When the Rebellion does come, it IS going to be bloody and violent,
what with the tearing and gnashing of teeth etc etc etc.

After all, we wouldn't be America without an occasional Armed Rebellion
every hundred years or so...

Seriously, the Rebellion will come when the following happens:

The Cost of Compliance to the Government outweighs the Cost of
Shooting them all

That's where our disagreement is. I will take up arms when the cost of compliance outweighs the cost of being killed. Since I don't believe in an afterlife, that would take some serious shit, a lot more than allegiance to some esoteric nation.

Thankfully, I doubt either you or I will have to follow through anytime soon. There are two reasons Bush is unlikely to be re-elected.

1. America has been digging itself into monster credit card debt to spend ourselves out of the recession. It's likely that this will bring our economy crashing down around our heads.

2. The war in Iraq is likely to spin out of control. The people in charge of planning it are fucking morons, and there are a lot of unpredictable variables that are not being taken into account.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote: 1. America has been digging itself into monster credit card debt to spend ourselves out of the recession. It's likely that this will bring our economy crashing down around our heads.

They've been predicting this since the 1970s, try again.

2. The war in Iraq is likely to spin out of control. The people in charge of planning it are fucking morons, and there are a lot of unpredictable variables that are not being taken into account.

How? We splattered them the first time around, and wasnt the war
in Afghanistan supposed to become a quagmire, but we blew the fuck
out of the Taliban in mere WEEKS?

MKSheppard wrote:How? We splattered them the first time around, and wasnt the war
in Afghanistan supposed to become a quagmire, but we blew the fuck
out of the Taliban in mere WEEKS?

Even the Soviets conquered Afghanistan in few weeks.The hard part came after,when they tried to keep it under control.Since you have left the majority of the country in a state of anarchy you have not faced the same problem.

Admiral Piett wrote: Even the Soviets conquered Afghanistan in few weeks.The hard part came after,when they tried to keep it under control.Since you have left the majority of the country in a state of anarchy you have not faced the same problem.

I don't see massive numbers of body bags being shipped out of Afghanistan
like the doomsayers kept saying would happen....

MKSheppard wrote:

Stravo wrote: Shep, any reason why they are JAMAICAN assholes and not just assholes??

They ARE illegal Jamaican assholes who got into this country illegally, and
then managed to evade deportation. The 17 year old kid's mother just
got her deportation papers from the US today

Then how come the sniper himself was in the US military, and participated in Desert Storm?

Admiral Piett wrote:

NecronLord wrote:

The Dark wrote: As did I. Except I have had latin lessons unlike whatever image-consultant-with-a-dictionary made that.

They have got their gammar wrong.

it should be "knowlege power is" with the verb at the end, as opposed to a simple english translation. I fear you may be getting a dud intelligence service.

The ususal word order in english broadly follows the lines of;
Subject Verb Object

Whereas in latin (proper latin not vomit upon crappo latin that they seem to use) it is

Subject (adjective) Object (Adverbs and Prepositions) VERB

e.g.

Carthagano Delenda est
Carthenge is Destroyed
not
Carthagano est Delenda

The question is, do you want these incompetent fuckers being able to spy on you?

You are correct,but not putting the verb at the end of the sentence is not generally considered a true mistake. However if you write latin in that manner the ghost of Cicero will come after you,that is for sure

OK I'm a latin grammer Nazi (though Fascist would be a better term[edit, oh crap you're Italian aren't you? It wasn't a personal comment]) I admit it. I still spit on their mistake. Admittedly there are some ways of getting round it. e.g. they could claim they are using medevil christian (i.e. corrupted) latin, but I think the statement they are trying to make is "Behold Bush and Cheny, weilders of imperium!"

MKSheppard wrote: I don't see massive numbers of body bags being shipped out of Afghanistan
like the doomsayers kept saying would happen....

Well,if you decide that the country must be pacified and order restored that is what probably will happen as soon as you start to put garrisons everywhere instead of limiting yourself to control Kabul and few others areas.

Admiral Piett wrote: Well,if you decide that the country must be pacified and order restored that is what probably will happen as soon as you start to put garrisons everywhere instead of limiting yourself to control Kabul and few others areas.

Why bother controlling Afghanistan? We got our objective: Remove the Taliban
from the place.

The average american is fucking stupid. Things like this make me feel like shooting myself. Then again if there is a revolution in 30+ years might as well take others down with me.

MKSheppard wrote:Why bother controlling Afghanistan? We got our objective: Remove the Taliban from the place.

Seems like everyone forgot about the "set up fair democratic government" objective Oh wait, that was never a real objective, just bullshit propaganda. And what about the "capture/kill Osama bin Laden" objective? Seems like everyone conveniently forgot about that now that it's clear we fucked that one up.

MKSheppard wrote:

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote: 1. America has been digging itself into monster credit card debt to spend ourselves out of the recession. It's likely that this will bring our economy crashing down around our heads.

They've been predicting this since the 1970s, try again.

This recession is unique in the magnatude of the spending. The fact that it's been predicted and before and didn't happen is irrelevant.

2. The war in Iraq is likely to spin out of control. The people in charge of planning it are fucking morons, and there are a lot of unpredictable variables that are not being taken into account.

How? We splattered them the first time around, and wasnt the war
in Afghanistan supposed to become a quagmire, but we blew the fuck
out of the Taliban in mere WEEKS?[/quote]
1. The first war was fought in open desert. This will be urban fighting. That means all those pretty tanks and a-10s will just be sitting there with their thumbs jammed up their asses. America has gotten nice and used to very low casuality fighting, and I wonder what will happen to public opinion when our sons and daughters start dying by the thousands in room to room operations.

2. The Kurds have publicly stated that they intend to seize control of 60 to 70 oil refineries as soon as the fighting begins. We have no plan for how to deal with that. I shit you not. The planners have not decided whether to befriend them, attack them, or ignore them. When they decide after the fact, it will probably be a hasty and panicked decision that could prove disastrous.

3. The committee has made no contingency plans at all. If 300,000 troops aren't enough, they have no idea what to do. If they decide to implement a draft, it will cause some serious fucking shit to go down.

4. Saddam has ordered 1.3 million antidotes for chemical weapons. This tells me that he plans to innoculate his troops and turn Baghdad into a biohazard zone.

5. Eventually the international community may or may not realize that Saddam didn't do anything and wasn't intending to, runs a secular government, and the only reason America is attacking is that we're greedy for his oil.

P.S. Don't think I'm a Saddam supporter, I'm not. He's fucking scum of the Earth who would kill a million people to make another million dollars, and his atrocity list includes using mustard gas on Kurdish civilians.

Oh btw, quick factoid for all the people who have bought into this bullshit that attacking Iraq is part of the "War on Terrorism". Before Desert Storm, Al Qaeda went to the Saudi government and asked them not to let the American troops in, because they wanted to be the ones to kick Iraq out of Kuwait. Al Qaeda and Iraq hate each others' fucking guts, and the White House propaganda people know that damn good and well. Fucking liars.