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actually I like EE except for rhe magic units...

I like manuals, even if they are just for somethig to read on the bus home after buying the game.

The sad thing is though, i've seen manuals get samller and smaller, up to HL2 which didn't have manual and i haven't yet seen a drop in price.

Just recently i got the collectors edition of Sid meirs Pirates. It cost about the same as a regular new game. It had a nice manual that told you how to play which is good since there's no tutorial that i know of and also had little snippets that were both funny and infrmative.
But that's not all. It also came with a t-sirt, a poster/map of the caribbean, a making of DVD and the origional pirates game! All that and i even used the cardboard box to transport all my reference sheets, counters nd suff i use for Games Workshop games.

And it cost as much as a regular game that comes with something that could bairly be passed as a manual in the old days and a catalogue of other games by the developer inside a small DVD like case.

Until we see a drop in prices for the DVD-cased games then i'll be happy buying my card board boxed, massive manual games!

Cant remember what issue the article was in. Id have to say it was a 2002 issue i think. Cant really remember, but i remember copying thee article to wordpad and saving it(which i dont have anymore).

Screw the manual issue. Because obviously im the only who seems to be able to play a game without having to look at a manual for help. Ive never looked at a manual for help, ive looked at them just for maybe the story or whatnot but never anything that is helpful in a game.

And while you guys are going on like legalistic lawyers about what i said i still dont see anyone agreeing about games would be cheaper though without boxes and cd cases and some other things.

Really i origianly was going to keep the topic about expensive games and how could companies make them cheaper.

Assassin X wrote:Screw the manual issue. Because obviously im the only who seems to be able to play a game without having to look at a manual for help.

It's obvious you've never met Aces of the Pacific and it's magnificient manual. Or read Wing Commander I's magnificient TIGERS CLAW magazine,
or looked through the ship statistic sheet for Wing Commander 2, or read
the fluff in Wing Commander Prophecy on the TCS Midway...

MKSheppard wrote:

Assassin X wrote:Screw the manual issue. Because obviously im the only who seems to be able to play a game without having to look at a manual for help.

It's obvious you've never met Aces of the Pacific and it's magnificient manual. Or read Wing Commander I's magnificient TIGERS CLAW magazine,
or looked through the ship statistic sheet for Wing Commander 2, or read
the fluff in Wing Commander Prophecy on the TCS Midway...

See, Shep. The problem with this guy is because his kind of games don't require manual, then other games don't need manual as well. Now I would really love to see him playing LOMAC without reading the manual.....

PS: let me know if you plan to sell the Tiger Claw Magazine

Assassin X wrote:Screw the manual issue. Because obviously im the only who seems to be able to play a game without having to look at a manual for help. Ive never looked at a manual for help, ive looked at them just for maybe the story or whatnot but never anything that is helpful in a game.

You're a dumbass. As KAN has repeatedly said to you, just because your games don't require one, doesn't mean none of the other games need manuals as well.

But yes, drop the manual issue. Please.

And while you guys are going on like legalistic lawyers about what i said i still dont see anyone agreeing about games would be cheaper though without boxes and cd cases and some other things.

And again, what are the "other things"? How the hell are we supposed to agree or disagree with you when you don't even give us the info we need?

Oh, and yes, I did agree with you about games being cheaper without the box, cd case, and manual. I said it would drop the price a whole 10 dollars. If that. Would I want to buy a game without those things? No.

Really i origianly was going to keep the topic about expensive games and how could companies make them cheaper.

Really? Let's take a look:

Ok two part topic!

Part 1- Are manuals useless?:
I think they are. Most people say they use they can see what buttons they need to use. Well you can see that in the game options! Ive never used a game manual, except for SW:Galaxies and thats it. Other then that i never use them unless i get bored and look at there cool pictures.

Part 2- Reason games are expensive!:
A few years ago i broke down how much games cost but turns out PC Gamer did the same thing.

Our games would be dirt cheap if it wast for all the extra money being spent on them.

Really looks like the manual was a whole "side issue that wasn't important."

10 dollars is excessive, IMHO. I'd say 5. Maybe.
Let's say the box is 1 buck, so is the jewel case (yeah right), and the manual is another three. That brings the price down from 50 to 45 bucks...for the naked CD!!! So, let's go up a buck again for a DVD case, unless you want to sell the game purely in the paper sleeve ...

KAN, here is also another factor to be added.

4 out of 5 games do not break even, as Spector said, how could they be worse off listening to the creative people, except... for each one that goes big, they coup Millions.

Also, while talking to a casual game company(where I'll be playtesting the Xbox 2 apprently), lets say RollerCoaster tycoon did well in the PC market, that means it sold roughly a million copies.

A good selling casual(or mass market RETAIL game) sells 10-100 Million copies, hard numbers, and they cost FAR less to produce.

Its just not in the financial cards for publishers to do it, and I can't fault them for that.

Where we CAN find fault in the publishers view, is the retail market, the one where games allready cost millions, Pub's should jump at cost savers such as Spore, where the deal won't be art, but programming, and you don't need as many people for that.