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Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Cal Wright wrote:Show me your evidence it was 'cloth'

Show that it wasn't, but this time without using that novelisation quote.

Why? Because it's devestating to your argument?

Guantlet-Protected. That glove seems to be something special if it's to protect Vader. Everyone keeps screaming 'it's just a glove!!!' Fine, think it's just a glove. For some reason there's this brain bug that a glove can't protect. When you get the chance, either go online, or go to a motorcycle store, and ask them if the gloves there actually protect. Then reconsider what your saying about it being 'just a glove.'

ANH Novelization, page 10.

Metal-clad fingers contracted.

Whatever, Cal. You're overruled by overriding evidence and logic of opinion, anyway.

Spice Runner wrote:Regardless of option A or B, the fact that Vader was cremated in his suit in ROTJ is proof that his suit cannot even resist fire and therefore obviously cannot block blaster bolts. Luke was not stupid, if Vader's suit could not be taken off and it was blaster/fire proof he would have thrown him into a star or something.

So your claim is that Vader's armor did not protect his body against cremation. Is there any evidence of the condition of Vader's body after the funeral pyre burned out?

Yeah, that it's not there.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yeah, that it's not there.

Neither was Ben Kenobi's, or Yoda's after they died. With this in mind the Cremation of Vader was symbolic in nature.

Then why the fuck did you ask?

Fuck, I'm getting sick of this bullshit. I'm sick of Cal and I'm getting fucking sick of you...

Then shut the fuck up already. You have got to be the biggest fuck nut on this board, and your posts in this whole thread prove it.

Spank me gently wrote:You're overruled by overriding evidence and logic of opinion, anyway

WHAT over riding evidence?!? The only evidence higher then my novel quote is the movie. Guess what you fucktard cockmonkey? It don't say shit to the contrary. What the hell is logic of opinion anyways? Everyone's fucking saying it so logically I'm wrong?

I don't get it? Everyone's insisting that he just had to use the Force in order to deflect those bolts. Do they surround thier lightsabre's when they deflect bolts with the Force? We've seen evidence of materials in the Star Wars universe being quite resiliant and this is just another case.

Cal Wright wrote:WHAT over riding evidence?!? The only evidence higher then my novel quote is the movie. Guess what you fucktard cockmonkey? It don't say shit to the contrary. What the hell is logic of opinion anyways? Everyone's fucking saying it so logically I'm wrong?

I don't get it? Everyone's insisting that he just had to use the Force in order to deflect those bolts. Do they surround thier lightsabre's when they deflect bolts with the Force? We've seen evidence of materials in the Star Wars universe being quite resiliant and this is just another case.

Wayne Poe has a rather good page on the subject.

Yeah, how can a material do that, Cal, let alone simply have a blaster bolt redirected into a wall?

Hey, here's a new invention Spanker, solar panels. You know, those damned energy absorbing panels that absorb solar energy.

Try again. That's not even close to having anything close to the same operation. Jesus, before I would have at least given you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't just throw out a stupid guess.

Cal Wright wrote: In regards to your pyre statment, don't forget that if the entire suit was completely burned, then that means that a lightsabre isn't as effective as fire since the shoulder pads helped deflect Luke's hit.

You have a valid point there. I cannot account for why Vaders armor blocked Lukes saber, and yet Luke burned the suit afterwards.

It may be that Vader was using the force to deflect the energy of the lightsaber, however I have not seen any proof of this. I am only speculating here. But I would assume that if Vader could use the force to absorb/deflect blaster bolt energy he could do the same to a lightsaber.

Steven Snyder wrote: So your claim is that Vader's armor did not protect his body against cremation. Is there any evidence of the condition of Vader's body after the funeral pyre burned out?

Anakin's spirit appearing next to Ben and Yodas during the celebration is would seem to indicate that his body dissapeared. The issue is what happened to the suit. I have not seen any sources that indicate what happened to it.

My guess is that if Luke had the suit lit on a pyre it would seem that he meant to burn it to erase the last remnants of Darth Vader.

Actually, Luke's sabre only nicked Vader's shoulder armour. The armour was dense enough and Luke's blow light enough that it didn't do that serious of damage, other than perhaps wounding Vader's pride and pissing him off.

Might that have been only a nick because Vader used the force to deflect the lightsaber?

In other words had a non-force user been wearing the exact same suit and been hit with a lightsaber in the exact same spot it would have sliced through like butter.

No, lightsabres require more effort to cut through denser materials, because the blades are massless, so the momentum depends entirely on how hard the weilder swings. Vader wasn't using the Force, Luke just made a weak hit against very dense armour.

Ok, so then Vader had vital parts of his suit that were covered with dense armor such as the the shoulders, groin etc.. However his gloved hands had no such armor, therefore he was using the force to absorb/deflect the blaster bolts that Han shot at him. When Luke finally burned Vaders suit at the pyre he must have removed those densely armored parts before lighting the pyre.

Thats the only conclusion that makes sense to me. Let me know if I've missed something.

They're still on him when Luke starts the pyre.

I said that they were dense, not that they were fireproof. Please pay attention.

err...pardon my ignorance but how would that work exactly. How could it block the energy of a lightsaber and yet be flammable?

Wait, according to SW.com's Databank, which corresponds to the rest of the EU, Vader's shoulder and shin armour is durasteel. No special mention of his gloves.

Ok, then those armored parts are all that remained after Vaders suit was burned.

Probably. It's possible that Luke may have destroyed or burried them somehow afterwards.

Cal Wright wrote:Then shut the fuck up already. You have got to be the biggest fuck nut on this board, and your posts in this whole thread prove it.

Spank me gently wrote:You're overruled by overriding evidence and logic of opinion, anyway

WHAT over riding evidence?!? The only evidence higher then my novel quote is the movie. Guess what you fucktard cockmonkey? It don't say shit to the contrary. What the hell is logic of opinion anyways? Everyone's fucking saying it so logically I'm wrong?

I don't get it? Everyone's insisting that he just had to use the Force in order to deflect those bolts. Do they surround thier lightsabre's when they deflect bolts with the Force? We've seen evidence of materials in the Star Wars universe being quite resiliant and this is just another case.

We've never seen CLOTH fucking DEFLECT blaster shots.

Or are you just being intentionally dense to propagate an argument which is on the level of Darkstar ignorance of Vader's fucking spine?

You keep screaming "It's the glove!!!!" yet, when the very fucking Novel doesn't go anymore then the vauge "Protected" you leap to the conclusion of the glove alone, provide no supporting evidence and then retort "How can it be the Force?"

And the lightsaber is a bullshit analogy and you know it or are just being a dick so you don't have to admit you're keep spouting this shit to not go "oops."

Spice Runner wrote:

Cal Wright wrote: In regards to your pyre statment, don't forget that if the entire suit was completely burned, then that means that a lightsabre isn't as effective as fire since the shoulder pads helped deflect Luke's hit.

You have a valid point there. I cannot account for why Vaders armor blocked Lukes saber, and yet Luke burned the suit afterwards.

It may be that Vader was using the force to deflect the energy of the lightsaber, however I have not seen any proof of this. I am only speculating here. But I would assume that if Vader could use the force to absorb/deflect blaster bolt energy he could do the same to a lightsaber.

Steven Snyder wrote: So your claim is that Vader's armor did not protect his body against cremation. Is there any evidence of the condition of Vader's body after the funeral pyre burned out?

Anakin's spirit appearing next to Ben and Yodas during the celebration is would seem to indicate that his body dissapeared. The issue is what happened to the suit. I have not seen any sources that indicate what happened to it.

My guess is that if Luke had the suit lit on a pyre it would seem that he meant to burn it to erase the last remnants of Darth Vader.

Actually, it looks as if this isn't the case. I remember getting pissed off at the Jedi Council on sw.com when they stated that Vader did in fact dissappear. Which doesn't happen. Obi Wan goes instantly, and Yoda is near instant. Qui Gon however does not vanish, and if what's described in the Making of RotS book, Qui Gon is going to appear as a spirit and teach Yoda and Obi Wan. (Don't look at me, that's how it was explained in there, and I personally think it will explain quite a number of things.) Don't forget, that while you see the suit on the pyre, it's also holding it's shape. For the forearms and the legs I could understand why, since he's cybernetic. The helmet is self explanatory, but the the abdominal region would need support. This also would be why Luke is burning him like this. Burning the body, and the only image he knew of his father, as Vader.

The only evidence of anything after the camera pans away is in the Jedi Academy Trilogy by *shudders* KJA. In which Kyp goes to Endor and lands at the sight of the pyre. I think there he mentions the ashes.

Ghost Rider wrote:

Cal Wright wrote:Then shut the fuck up already. You have got to be the biggest fuck nut on this board, and your posts in this whole thread prove it.

Spank me gently wrote:You're overruled by overriding evidence and logic of opinion, anyway

WHAT over riding evidence?!? The only evidence higher then my novel quote is the movie. Guess what you fucktard cockmonkey? It don't say shit to the contrary. What the hell is logic of opinion anyways? Everyone's fucking saying it so logically I'm wrong?

I don't get it? Everyone's insisting that he just had to use the Force in order to deflect those bolts. Do they surround thier lightsabre's when they deflect bolts with the Force? We've seen evidence of materials in the Star Wars universe being quite resiliant and this is just another case.

We've never seen CLOTH fucking DEFLECT blaster shots.

Or are you just being intentionally dense to propagate an argument which is on the level of Darkstar ignorance of Vader's fucking spine?

You keep screaming "It's the glove!!!!" yet, when the very fucking Novel doesn't go anymore then the vauge "Protected" you leap to the conclusion of the glove alone, provide no supporting evidence and then retort "How can it be the Force?"

And the lightsaber is a bullshit analogy and you know it or are just being a dick so you don't have to admit you're keep spouting this shit to not go "oops."

First of all, you keep claiming 'CLOTH' while I'm claiming 'PROTECTED'. I'm supported, your not. Big difference. Not only are you saying it's 'cloth' your saying we've never seen 'cloth' deflect bolts. However, if it is as your saying, 'cloth' then it's deflecting the bolts on screen, and in the novel.

I love how you throw back the 'It's the glove' and say I don't have any supporting evidence. Hello?!? Like I've explained, and if you would please read the posts, the movie shows Vader absorbing and/or deflecting blaster bolts. Novel states Vader deflecting blaster bolts. Funny, that's what supports my argument. The two highest forms of canon. You on the other hand, have nothing supporting your argument of the glove merely being 'cloth' nor anything that states he used the Force to deflect the bolts.

Hmm, Cal 2, Ghost 0. Concession (drum roll please) accepted.