StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I'm having visions of people bitching about how the engagement ranges were into the hundreds of metres during a lot of the opening battle and how this is indicative of SW engagement ranges being crap.

Can we get something straight in my mind - the ranges were that fucking tight, because the Republic forces were trying to prevent ANY seperatist ships from escaping the battle and a hyperspace jump "run up" in those kind of tight quarters would have been suicide for any ship there?

weemadando wrote:I'm having visions of people bitching about how the engagement ranges were into the hundreds of metres during a lot of the opening battle and how this is indicative of SW engagement ranges being crap.

Can we get something straight in my mind - the ranges were that fucking tight, because the Republic forces were trying to prevent ANY seperatist ships from escaping the battle and a hyperspace jump "run up" in those kind of tight quarters would have been suicide for any ship there?

Aw, but when have conventions like this "plot" thing ever mattered to these people.?

NecronLord wrote:What the fuck were those spent shell like things that came out of the back of the seperatist guns?

Primary beam projectors! They pumped so much energy into each shot, it burned out the projector, a la the Lensman series.

Not to put down SW armour or anything, but whats the deal with fire killing SBD's?

I can only assume it was intense heat given the oil or other hydrocarbon like substance Artoo doused them in.

Laird wrote:Not to put down SW armour or anything, but whats the deal with fire killing SBD's?

They obviously have vulnerable parts; having a big piece of armour on your chest does not make you invincible.

Stick one of those ferrocrete containers they use to carry nuke waste around in a pool of burning oil and it'll soon fail. Heat tolerance can vary compared to being able to take large blows.

Laird wrote:Not to put down SW armour or anything, but whats the deal with fire killing SBD's?

It is actually rather simple. They have armor, but flammable lubricants have a nasty tendency to get into places you dont want them.. the armor isnt all covering, and they have to have some sort of delicat inner workings...

Laird wrote:Not to put down SW armour or anything, but whats the deal with fire killing SBD's?

Quick real-world example. The twin towers. Big, concrete and steel things which could, in theory, withstand hurricane force winds. Yet, spray highly flammable liquids all over some of their inner supports and set it on fire, and the towers collapse under their own weight.

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:

Laird wrote:Not to put down SW armour or anything, but whats the deal with fire killing SBD's?

Quick real-world example. The twin towers. Big, concrete and steel things which could, in theory, withstand hurricane force winds. Yet, spray highly flammable liquids all over some of their inner supports and set it on fire, and the towers collapse under their own weight.

The problem with this analogy is that the SBD frames would be under comparatively little stress, and should easily be able to hold up even if the strength of their load-bearing parts were substantially reduced. Obviously, they had parts that did not react well to high-temperatures, and were not completely protected by their armor.

So SBDs were not designed wth napalm in mind.

- Super Battle Droids are immensely strong. One easily hefted R2-D2. (I presume he is a rather heavy object.)

- Battle Droids mimic human soldiers in that they banter amongst one another. They can also display independent thought indicative of personality or tendency, such as when one tramps off toward R2-D2 in the hangar bay of the Invisible Hand but is called back by another more attuned to the task of searching the Jedi fighter.

- Battle Droids can be drawn off task to watch fights in which they are not participants. Some in fact “rooted” for Obi Wan’s assailants on the Invisible Hand and had to be called back to work.

Gandalf wrote:I think you've misinterpreted me.

At some point, the clones are taught the rules/regulations/orders. Why weren't people reviewing the curriculum?

The new clones aren't taught for real for one. They're popped straight out of the vat, uploaded with memories and instincts, and deployed. Its all handled by computers somewhere.

NecronLord wrote:What the fuck were those spent shell like things that came out of the back of the seperatist guns?

ICS labels those slots the guns were firing out of to be torpedo launchers. The SW ICS and TPM ICS clearly shows firing "cylinders" of sorts for firing torpedoes. And they cannot be a simple reusable mechanism, as the Y-Wing has seperate cylinders for each torpedo. Presumably, the large ones on the Invisible Hand eject the cylinder after each firing sequence for simplicity.

Darth Wong wrote:So SBDs were not designed wth napalm in mind.

A vulnerability that probably would've been exploited if the Clone Wars had been anything but a sham.

Interesting to ponder in the light of Palpatine's propensity for deep planning. So even if the CIS leadership had gone rogue on him and brought things to a real fight, the primary infantry unit of the CIS had a glaring vulnerability to be exploited.

weemadando wrote: Can we get something straight in my mind - the ranges were that fucking tight, because the Republic forces were trying to prevent ANY seperatist ships from escaping the battle and a hyperspace jump "run up" in those kind of tight quarters would have been suicide for any ship there?

The novelization refers to ships in others path to prevent a run up to hyperspace, specifically the Invisible Hand. However, the novelization also gives engagement ranges of hundreds of kms as well- clearly the entire battle wasn't fought at the range we saw Obi-Wan/ Anakin flying past.

Gandalf wrote:What was with General Order 66? It evidently was already being taught to the clones, how many people would have known of such an order being there?
I figured that since the clones were officially meant to be backup for the Jedi, such an order would raise concern.
Anyone?

The clones spend hours upon hours of the younger parts of their lives (probably hours a day for years, between the ages of 2-6 years old, the equivalent of a normal child's 4-12 years) hooked up to those holographic learning computer thingies. With hours of curriculum being drilled into their heads, it's possible to slip in some side "programming" subliminally or somesuch, alongside their programming for with their absolute loyalty to the Republic.

Perhaps no one, aside from the Kaminoans (who were probably paid to do it), had the time to review the clones' hours upon hours of programming. Even the Kaminoans might have overlooked it.. with at least 66 "General Orders" (there are probably over a hundred, or more), they might not even have seen it as unusual.. just a standard contingency in case of insurgency.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Makes me wonder if one technology that fell somewhat was the hyperdrive when the Empire came about. I always recall Lucas saying it was like the fall of Rome when the Empire came into being and a lot of tech was lost, but also some new stuff came about (namely weapons since it was one big civil war).
They may all have had .5 class hyperdrives on gov't vessels then.

Is it possible that there are only a small number of large manufacturing facilities necessary for the production and maintenance of the top end of high-performance hyperdrives, thus allowing the Galactic Empire to control the access of the general populace to such equipment?


As for the issue with the Invisible Hand's hangar shields..
In Republic Commando, one of the missions revolved around preventing Trade Federation droids from boarding a derelict Acclamator. Delta Squad caused the shields to become impassible by destroying the shield "regulators".. I suppose as a safety measure, this causes them to power up to capacity (and becoming "solid") rather than shutting off and venting the hangar bay's atmosphere into space.

Atmospheric containment shields can therefore presumably be set voluntarily to behave "solid", necessitating the destruction of the generators.
I suppose the atmospheric containment shields are not considered a real defensive measure by the engineers who designed the Invisible Hand, and left them exposed on the hull.


Lastly, Artoo kicks ass like nobody's business. He seriously owns... possibly taking the "badass muthafucka" title away from Mace. Sidious is just lucky he didn't run into Artoo.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Stick one of those ferrocrete containers they use to carry nuke waste around in a pool of burning oil and it'll soon fail. Heat tolerance can vary compared to being able to take large blows.

Err, I thought one of the tests they subjected those suckers to was suspending them above a pool of burning jet fuel for several minutes.

Firefox wrote:On another subject, is it remotely possible that Tantive IV retained the hangar bay in ANH, and that was how the Imperials gained entry?

The Imperials gained entry by using a TIE boarding craft and cutting through the hatch on the docking ring on the side of the ship.

Just watched the film last night, WOW! Really nicely done.

Don't get the deal with General G. though, I thought he was kind of silly. Especially when we just started twirling his lightsabers to and fro prior to engaging Obi-Wan.

Also, just wondering how Anakin and wife afforded such an awesome penthouse, I thought the Jedi needed not for money.

On the tech side, I was fairly impressed with the wookie machines.

I thought the creation of Vader could have shown a little more detail then, insert A leg into B stump, but I digress, great film.

And in my opinion, the NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO was perfect, it completed his journey to the dark side, as was evident by the emperor's smile and his incredible power to shake the very planet.

9.0 out of 10, minus 1 point for the beginning of the film, the pacing was a little off.

Darth Mortis wrote:Don't get the deal with General G. though, I thought he was kind of silly. Especially when we just started twirling his lightsabers to and fro prior to engaging Obi-Wan.

Seemed like an attempt at a decent defensive measure, considering he's not a Force adept.

Also, just wondering how Anakin and wife afforded such an awesome penthouse, I thought the Jedi needed not for money.

Padme's a senator. Enough said.

Another thought back on the T4 hangar bay. Are there any ventral shots of the original model? Even though it wasn't mentioned in the OTICS, I can't help but wonder if it was still there, post-refit.

Firefox wrote:

Darth Mortis wrote:Don't get the deal with General G. though, I thought he was kind of silly. Especially when we just started twirling his lightsabers to and fro prior to engaging Obi-Wan.

Seemed like an attempt at a decent defensive measure, considering he's not a Force adept.

Also, just wondering how Anakin and wife afforded such an awesome penthouse, I thought the Jedi needed not for money.

Padme's a senator. Enough said.

Another thought back on the T4 hangar bay. Are there any ventral shots of the original model? Even though it wasn't mentioned in the OTICS, I can't help but wonder if it was still there, post-refit.

I concede point #2, D'oh.

However, on point 1, what was defensive about swing and hitting the floor on both sides of him when they weren't even engaged? He looked like a pissed off 2 year old.


Oh, another point, I thought Sidious's power display in the senate chamber was awesome, just flinging huge seating chambers at will, totally awesome IMHO.

Darth Mortis wrote:However, on point 1, what was defensive about swing and hitting the floor on both sides of him when they weren't even engaged? He looked like a pissed off 2 year old.

It may have also been to keep Obi-Wan away. Would you want to approach a guy twirling a pair of sabers, while treading molten flooring?

Darth Mortis wrote:

Firefox wrote:

Darth Mortis wrote:Don't get the deal with General G. though, I thought he was kind of silly. Especially when we just started twirling his lightsabers to and fro prior to engaging Obi-Wan.

Seemed like an attempt at a decent defensive measure, considering he's not a Force adept.

Also, just wondering how Anakin and wife afforded such an awesome penthouse, I thought the Jedi needed not for money.

Padme's a senator. Enough said.

Another thought back on the T4 hangar bay. Are there any ventral shots of the original model? Even though it wasn't mentioned in the OTICS, I can't help but wonder if it was still there, post-refit.

I concede point #2, D'oh.

However, on point 1, what was defensive about swing and hitting the floor on both sides of him when they weren't even engaged? He looked like a pissed off 2 year old.

Because charging into something like that would be akin to walking headfirst into a blender. And against less experienced opponents, it provides certain psychological advantages. (Some might be stupid enough to try to watch all four blades, or focus on the two that are moving, and not pay enough attention to the other two.)

Firefox wrote:

Darth Mortis wrote:However, on point 1, what was defensive about swing and hitting the floor on both sides of him when they weren't even engaged? He looked like a pissed off 2 year old.

It may have also been to keep Obi-Wan away. Would you want to approach a guy twirling a pair of sabers, while treading molten flooring?

I did not see Obi-Wan looking to concerned, I wouldn't do it, but then again, I'm no Jedi.

This is the same man who surfs on red hot lava remember.

With that I rank my strength perception as the following (only using the Movies as my guide

Champ:
*) Sidious (of course)
1) Luke
2) Vader (post Padme death)
3) Yoda
4) Anakin
5) Obi-Wan
6) Mace
7) Dooku
Maul
105) Grievous

Darth Mortis wrote:I did not see Obi-Wan looking to concerned, I wouldn't do it, but then again, I'm no Jedi.

He's also highly trained in defensive lightsaber techniques.

This is the same man who surfs on red hot lava remember.

No, he was standing on a shielded platform floating above red-hot lava.