What was the greatest waste in all of Star Trek?

[Connor MacLeod]

Whats funny from reading some of the similarties, B5 actualy copied things from DS9.

Both series added a "tough little ship" in their 3rd seasons. Except DS9s 3rd season was a year before B5s.

Shh.. quiet.. the Rabid Fivers will hear you


I have to admit I lost interest in early DS9, but once the Dominion War rolled around, I started watching it again on a semi-regular basis. Of course, Voyager killed that...

[Alyeska]

The Klingon War brought me back into DS9. The Defiant didn't originaly do much for me. The stories were still largely non-building. The continuity really began in the 4th season.

[Connor MacLeod]

It came and went. The space combat scenes weren't too bad, but some of the plot lines were kinda "urk".

[Uraniun235]

The space combat scenes were retarded. All they had going for them was that they were no longer the lethargic turds we often got in TNG.

[xerex]

Whats funny from reading some of the similarties, B5 actualy copied things from DS9. Both series added a "tough little ship" in their 3rd seasons. Except DS9s 3rd season was a year before B5s.

Shh.. quiet.. the Rabid Fivers will hear you .

LOL well the B5 plot (inc the Whitestar) was written way before DS9 was aired.

while we're on the subject.....the Whitestar was way cooler than the Defiant.

and for sheer terror value nothing can beat the Shadow Ships. except maybe for the Earth/Shadow hybrid "Advanced Destroyers " Those things looked like they came straight from Hell.

[Anguirus]

Did you even read what I posted? By the time I knew about B5, I couldn't watch is because none of the local stations aired it.

Yes, I did. You obviously didn't read mine:

I recommend the B5 DVD sets, which can be easily rented or purchased rather more cheaply thn the DS9 sets, and,

I only saw part of B5s run on TNT. I watched the whole show on DVD, and own three seasons, so don't play the "it's really hrd to find" card. The DVDs are everywhere, and you can rent them on Netflix for a pittance.

From my perspective it would appear as such. Whatever you see first colors what you see next.

Your perspective is wrong. It's as accurate as calling The Magnificent Seven derivative of Seven Samurai

And several people have told you, including me, that they saw DS9 first and still today recognize B5 as superior and/or more original.

The very first DS9 episode aired on January 3rd 1993. B5s pilot aired on Febuary 22nd 1993. B5 didn't actualy air as a series until January 26th 1994.

You're far too smart to pull this air date crap. Anyone with half a brain who looks at the situation can realize that DS9 was calculated to kill B5. They barely got picked up because Star Trek EXISTED, and now suddenly there was a Star Trek that had a space station that was a port of call, with a religious subtext, a troubled commander in charge, and a tense situation due to a recent war between major powers.

In fact, JMS was told that he could not have a shapeshifter in his pilot, because while he'd had a shapeshifter in the story for years, DS9 got there first and that ws one similarity that could afford to go.

Now, where do you think Paramount got the idea for a space station that was a port of call, with a religious destiny for its lead character, a shapeshifter, etc., etc., etc.? It was a Paramount exec that asked Berman to do a show abot a space station!

The Wiki probably makes any more similarities pointed out on my account redundant. But the B5 storyline was there from the beginning, all five years, White Stars and all.

And from what I remember reading, the creators of DS9 had been toying with the idea since before they heard JMS's pitch.

From what you remember. Uh-huh.

Whats more is DS9 is set in an established universe using politics already established before B5 was ever pitched.

Bullshit. The Cardassians and the Bajorans did not exist before B5 was pitched, and all the politics DS9 gets into involve them somehow. The Klingons play a marginal role till Season 4, and the Romulans only get three or four good episodes involving them.

There are obvious similarities, but from everything I've read on the subject, DS9 and B5 are clearly different series.

Yes, they are. So why not give B5 a try? Why judge it now?

Both series added a "tough little ship" in their 3rd seasons. Except DS9s 3rd season was a year before B5s.

Bullshit, as other people have pointed out. What's your motivation to shovel this crap at us? If one is a rip-off of the other (and they do seem suspiciously similar, though both series did have a similar dramatic need for a warship...because of their similar structure) then the Defiant is a ripoff of the White Star. Because the White Star came first, despite the fact that viewers got to see the Defiant first.

Shh.. quiet.. the Rabid Fivers will hear you Wink

As well as anyone interested in the truth. Darth Wong doesn't strike me as a "rabid Fiver" for instance.

[Alyeska]

Blow money on DVDs when I might not even like it. Give me a break. If I get a chance to watch it on TV, I will give it a shot. But I am not going to spend my own money to watch a series that I will have no way of knowing if I like it or not.

[StarshipTitanic]

That's what renting is for.

[Typhonis 1]

Didn`t the Cardassians first show up in the episode "The Wounded" ?

[Alyeska]

That's what renting is for.

Not a single place localy rents any TV series except Lost and 24.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I knew it. It had to be something like that.

I'd almost suggest using Netflix, but then I remember that you're a Luddite.

[Nephtys]

Blow money on DVDs when I might not even like it. Give me a break. If I get a chance to watch it on TV, I will give it a shot. But I am not going to spend my own money to watch a series that I will have no way of knowing if I like it or not.

If you rent some of Season 2, I'm pretty sure you'd get a liking. That is, if your powers of clairvoyance haven't already deduced that you hate the show.

Netflix is dirt, dirt cheap.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Alyeska doesn't have a credit card.

[Uraniun235]

Didn`t the Cardassians first show up in the episode "The Wounded" ?

Yes. TNG season 4.

The Cardassians and the Bajorans did not exist before B5 was pitched, and all the politics DS9 gets into involve them somehow.

Now this is where I start to wonder about things, because The Wounded first aired on January 28, 1991. This is a full two years before the Babylon 5 pilot movie aired. The Bajorans were introduced in Ensign Ro, which was a Season 5 episode that aired on October 7, 1991. This is still fifteen months prior to the debut of DS9. Furthermore, it's been hinted that the executives approached Berman and Pillar in "late 1991" about creating a new Trek series.

Now, while it's entirely possible that the groundwork to assassinate Babylon 5 had been laid some time prior to this, it still seems unlikely to me that the Bajorans and Cardassians had been explicitly created this early in TNG to provide the foundation for DS9.

[Lord Pounder]

For me it was DS9, so near yet so far, they could have made the Bajorans more resentful of the Feddies, they could have has more Cardassians rocking the boat there. The Domion War was wasted by a rushed ending too.

Kee-rist, you people are bitter. I liked Voyager. So there.

So there? What kind of defence of you favourite show is that? Kindly fuck off and die.

[Anguirus]

Now, while it's entirely possible that the groundwork to assassinate Babylon 5 had been laid some time prior to this, it still seems unlikely to me that the Bajorans and Cardassians had been explicitly created this early in TNG to provide the foundation for DS9.

The Cardassians in "The Wounded" were not likely thrown in there as anything but a new hostile alien race. Though it did establish the Fed-Cardassia War.

"Ensign Ro" is probably groundwork for DS9 though, in some form or another. Ro was almost a regular on DS9.

It was only quite a bit later that the Cardassians started taking on a role VERY similar to that of the Centauri in their respective storylines. Which may be coincidence, but it in no way makes B5 a ripoff!

But I am not going to spend my own money to watch a series that I will have no way of knowing if I like it or not.

Fair enough.

So...why do you feel qualified to comment on Babylon 5 again?

And hey, it might be worth a try since everyone I know of on this board who's seen it likes it. *shrugs*

[Alyeska]

I'm qualified to say that DS9 is enjoyable as its own series as part of Trek and people needn't attack it as a copy of B5.

[Nephtys]

I'm qualified to say that DS9 is enjoyable as its own series as part of Trek and people needn't attack it as a copy of B5.

So you're admitting also, that you're entirely NOT qualified to dismiss another show as derivative without seeing at most, an episode or two?

[StarshipTitanic]

I'm qualified to say that DS9 is enjoyable as its own series as part of Trek and people needn't attack it as a copy of B5.

No, you aren't. I, on the other hand, am qualified for I have seen a few seasons worth of DS9 and also all five of Babylon 5. DS9 took many queues from B5 and, while it is a good Star Trek effort and not a terrible television show on its own, DS9 did not do a good job being Babylon 5 when it tried to be Babylon 5.

Now go unbunch your panties, fanboy.

Edit: Fixed a small error

[Alyeska]

I'm qualified to say that DS9 is enjoyable as its own series as part of Trek and people needn't attack it as a copy of B5.

So you're admitting also, that you're entirely NOT qualified to dismiss another show as derivative without seeing at most, an episode or two?

Derivative that aired first.... The entire claim that DS9 rips B5 is on the premise that B5 was 90% written before the first episode aired. And I've never seen that claim backed up. Furthermore, I have not once heard JMS complaining about B5 being ripped. Some of the prime examples that people often cite has DS9 clearly beating out B5.

The similarities between DS9 and B5 are only on the surface. The two series are clearly very different. The fact that people who like B5 are harping on DS9 should be proof of this.

The people who made DS9 were never part of the JMS pitch to Paramount and they had their own ideas. Paramount had Berman in charge of Trek. If Paramount wanted B5 copied, they would have made Berman do it. Instead Ira Stephen Behr did DS9 and Berman attempted to kill it whenever possible.

[Alyeska]

I'm qualified to say that DS9 is enjoyable as its own series as part of Trek and people needn't attack it as a copy of B5.

No, you aren't. I, on the other hand, am qualified for I have seen a few seasons worth of DS9 and also all five of Babylon 5. DS9 took many queues from B5 and, while it is a good Star Trek effort and not a terrible television show on its own, DS9 did not do a good job being Babylon 5 when it tried to be Babylon 5.

Now go unbunch your panties, fanboy.

Edit: Fixed a small error

Fuck off. DS9 did not try and be B5. The claim that it was hinges on Paramount intentionaly copying JMSs scripts and leaking them to the DS9 writing staff. Something like that would have caused a massive lawsuit by JMS.

DS9 used already established Trek politics and only created one new race. To claim DS9 ripped B5 would mean that Paramount had a conspiracy to rip B5 from 1990 when DS9 elements began getting incorperated.

[StarshipTitanic]

Derivative that aired first.... The entire claim that DS9 rips B5 is on the premise that B5 was 90% written before the first episode aired. And I've never seen that claim backed up. Furthermore, I have not once heard JMS complaining about B5 being ripped. Some of the prime examples that people often cite has DS9 clearly beating out B5.

You would have, dipshit, if you bothered to read posts made before and followed the link graciously provided for you to peruse. There are even more links in the first paragraph of the "Comparison" section that further back up the claim.

It's quite obvious through this thread that you stick your fingers in your ears and scream "DS9 4-eva!" whenever someone who has actually seen both shows dares to point out eerie similarities. Unfortunately, that is not an excuse for your ignorance.

Fuck off. DS9 did not try and be B5. (snip bullshit)

You're right, only one of Babylon 5's seasons had a number of boring filler episodes. DS9 pioneered the 4 season long doldrums before staggering into a hastily concieved war arc.

Those panties are going to need a good washing to get the streak marks out, bullshitting fanboy.

[Uraniun235]

At first I thought "wait is he talking about B5 season 1 or 5?"

Then I remembered that Season 5 had hot hot teep sex.

(god seriously B5 had this uncanny ability to find incredibly attractive actresses that weren't in their twenties)

[xerex]

(god seriously B5 had this uncanny ability to find incredibly attractive actresses that weren't in their twenties)

true, so true.

any idea who was the woman who played Garibaldi's ex who married the Martian tycoon (play by Efrem Zimbalist)


incidentally, I have yet so any show (whith the possible exception of farscape) come close to Lando-G'kar dialogue/monologue


and NONE compares with Lando's or Gkar's character development

[Alyeska]

You would have, dipshit, if you bothered to read posts made before and followed the link graciously provided for you to peruse. There are even more links in the first paragraph of the "Comparison" section that further back up the claim.

It's quite obvious through this thread that you stick your fingers in your ears and scream "DS9 4-eva!" whenever someone who has actually seen both shows dares to point out eerie similarities. Unfortunately, that is not an excuse for your ignorance.

I did read that link. And I noted that the link even admits DS9 came first and aired several of the similarities well before B5 ever did.

Fuck off. DS9 did not try and be B5. (snip bullshit)

You're right, only one of Babylon 5's seasons had a number of boring filler episodes. DS9 pioneered the 4 season long doldrums before staggering into a hastily concieved war arc.

Those panties are going to need a good washing to get the streak marks out, bullshitting fanboy.

Well I asked for proof that JMS magicaly had the B5 scripts and plots 90% finished before DS9 even left the drawing board and the DS9 writers faithfuly ripped the ideas. You provided none.

Who is the fanboy here. Furthermore, you aren't seeing me proclaim DS9 to be the second comming. But apparently because I am defending DS9 on the charge of being a rip of B5, I must be a DS9 fanboy. You on the other hand won't stop ragging DS9 and didn't back up requests for evidence.

I posted my proof pointing out that DS9 got their first in several areas and was built on a foundation that existed well before DS9. I've yet to see anyone prove the DS9 writers had massively ripped B5 thanks to Paramount giving them every piece of material JMS proposed.