New SDN SEIV game

[Trogdor]

I've been playing around with the mod a bit. First let me say that I have no idea if the problems I'm about to list are bugs with the mod or me screwing up installation. I orginally thought it was a mod of Adamant for some reason When I realized it wasn't I deleted it and put it back in real quick, so it's entirely possible I fucked something up.

All planets have the red or green asterixes regardless of whether or not I have the needed colony component to planet my flag on it.

Certain components/facilities disappear when you click the "only latest" option even though they shouldn't. Toggling this option leaves only one of the space captains visible, and it also removes the basic mining facility from the list of buildings even though I didn't have a better one.

Disturbution of planets with ship hulls seems uneven sometimes. In one game I was up to destroyers by turn sixteen and in another I was still at corvettes on turn thirty-eight.

The outpost colony component is pretty much useless unless you absolutely can't wait another turn to get the tech on a certain planet. A planet has zero construction capability unless its population is at a certain level (I'm not sure what the magic number is yet). Not only does this mean it'll be a long time before an outpost colony can build anything, but it also means that it takes big planets whose population must be built up over time to levels rivalling the home worlds to regularly make their own fruitful colonies. If this goes unchanged, I may very well trade in my super builder Lego guys for super breeding Shofixi or something.

[brianeyci]

What? The outpost colony lets you colonize three planet types instead of one. It's immensely useful and in my land rush I'll be using outpost colonies since my outer ring of defenses won't be production centers but little fortresses. It's far more important to grab that hull planet in enemy territory than to colonize a breather early on IMO.

As for building speed, as long as a planet builds a facility in one turn with an adequate population level, I won't care since my ship construction will be centered in my home system.

Brian

[Trogdor]

What? The outpost colony lets you colonize three planet types instead of one. It's immensely useful and in my land rush I'll be using outpost colonies since my outer ring of defenses won't be production centers but little fortresses. It's far more important to grab that hull planet in enemy territory than to colonize a breather early on IMO.

Ah, that would explain why every planet seems colonizable.

As for building speed, as long as a planet builds a facility in one turn with an adequate population level, I won't care since my ship construction will be centered in my home system.

Planets colonized with the outpost component lack any building capability whatsoever, though. They get -100% construction because the game views a population of less than a number I've yet to discover as 0.

[brianeyci]

What? The outpost colony lets you colonize three planet types instead of one. It's immensely useful and in my land rush I'll be using outpost colonies since my outer ring of defenses won't be production centers but little fortresses. It's far more important to grab that hull planet in enemy territory than to colonize a breather early on IMO.

Ah, that would explain why every planet seems colonizable.

I missed it too, with my first min/max empire build. I optimized it for building a normal colony module and had to sacrifice tons of points for like 150% build rate, but with my latest Toss build I keep it at 100% and just get hardy industrialists. I was thinking of lowering my build rate to the lowest it could be to just build a colonizer in one turn, but then I realized there aren't any good traits at all except for hardy industrialists, and that some warships cost a lot more to build than 3700. I also want to emergency build over 10k so I can build a 100k superweapon on a homeworld in ten turns, if it ever comes to that.

So far it's only Ancient Race, Hardy Industrialists, Advanced Storage Techniques and Propulsion Experts that makes my cut. All the rest look like a waste of points. With 5000 points though it almost ruins the min/maxing concept. I might, to everybody's groaning and moaning, make it 2000 points so you can only pick one or two of the big four instead of all four.

Planets colonized with the outpost component lack any building capability whatsoever, though. They get -100% construction because the game views a population of less than a number I've yet to discover as 0.

I'll compensate by shuttling population around with a transport. No big deal... build an orbital shipyard and have it churn out a small transport every few turns and sent the transport to the front with your millions. U235 managed to do it somehow through the whole of EA along with fighters, though it must have been a pain in the ass.

Brian

[brianeyci]

As for testing, what's needed is a check of every single component, especially the Captains, to make sure they work. It's accomplished by selecting a high technology start and choosing player can see entire technology tree, along with ten homeworlds, a good planet and turning off AI's. Then you can build ships and test every component. To test cloak, it'll be a little more tricky, but do a hotseat game with AI players turned off and a small galaxy. Then you can encounter yourself and see if the cloaked Captain works.

A lot of grunt work. I might do it later this week, but probably not since I'm working every single day until September 2nd (when I quit both my summer jobs, whee!)

Brian

[brianeyci]

Atrocities sent me an e-mail replying to an old e-mail I sent about ST Mod. He's updating it apparently. I gave him a link to our modifications . Hopefully he accepts 1 limit on shields and armor on fighters, and makes advanced beam weapons worthwhile. I also suggested raising quantum and normal torpedo costs to 250 from 75.

I also suggested advanced beams be quad damage to shields, normal beams be double, and torpedoes be normal. Then the best ships would obviously be torpedo + beam combinations, especially if he makes torpedoes 250 minerals instead of 75 (right now it's 75 for a torpedo compared to 350 for a beam, insane to go anything but torpedoes).

Brian

[Uraniun235]

U235 managed to do it somehow through the whole of EA along with fighters, though it must have been a pain in the ass.

Brian

I actually did that quite a bit with population too, in an effort to get some of the colonies jump-started.

The fighters didn't get shuttled around quite as much, actually. I sent a few shiploads to a couple of worlds I thought merited at least a token defense, but other than that I just hauled the carrier groups home when it was time to replace the fighters - I only had to do it once, when I upgraded from Starfuries to Thunderbolts and Javelins. M6 was replenished by a carrier (I figured it was a good way to show the flag. )

[brianeyci]

I actually did that quite a bit with population too, in an effort to get some of the colonies jump-started.

The fighters didn't get shuttled around quite as much, actually. I sent a few shiploads to a couple of worlds I thought merited at least a token defense, but other than that I just hauled the carrier groups home when it was time to replace the fighters - I only had to do it once, when I upgraded from Starfuries to Thunderbolts and Javelins. M6 was replenished by a carrier (I figured it was a good way to show the flag. )

Well there's more pain coming. I'm assuming you'll make a fighter like this now that you know they stack (you have to change the ship strategies to launch in groups of 50 instead of 5, or better yet build up over a turn on the strategic map a huge wing...)



Light Armor Class 6, since mediums and heavy are less efficient per kiloton and leaky armor doesn't work on units so there's no disadvantage to using light armor. 13 move points, so when you add the 3 bonus moves it's 16 and there's 8 moves in the tactical map.

The real insane part about fighters is the 0 maintainence. If you think a little, it's possible to get a trillion fighters a turn, if your economy and construction facilities are set up properly . Finally a use for civilian ship.

Brian

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

I don't know, though. Light armor is expensive as hell. It might be more protective, but I think you could have double the number of fighters present with heavy armor.

Also, what about putting a slab of emissive on a fighter? 25 shielding times hundreds of fighters is a lot.

[brianeyci]

I don't know, though. Light armor is expensive as hell. It might be more protective, but I think you could have double the number of fighters present with heavy armor.

Also, what about putting a slab of emissive on a fighter? 25 shielding times hundreds of fighters is a lot.

It's not really double, it's around 850 instead of 1k so just 25% more. And in tactical combat they launch in groups of fifty at most. So I'm guessing if you want the strongest stacks, you'll want the most possible armor, regardless of cost. Of course if you launch in strategic instead of tactical, that might not apply.

As for the emissive, it's shields, but I figured more armor was better. The emissive channeling ability doesn't work on units either.

I guess there's no way to tell except build them and fight, because the sims don't work with fighters.

Brian

[Kojiro]

And how does this compare? Honestly I'm so lost as far as the armour thing goes. All my current fighters have emissive armour. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

[brianeyci]

And how does this compare? Honestly I'm so lost as far as the armour thing goes. All my current fighters have emissive armour. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

It's 35 instead of 25 so obviously you've got better fighters. Your fighter's a little pricey though but I imagine those weapons do 100 damage each. The emissives give shields so when someone shoots at your fighter stack, instead of depleting your ability to fire back with each shot, they'll have to punch through the entire stack's shields.

Who knows. It's not like I can sim them (fighter supply is bugged in SE:IV sims). I say as long as the fighter's got 2x the move points of ships in tactical and is armored, it's enough. Emissives will have the edge for stacks of hundreds or thousands, but if you launch in tactical in groups of 50 you'd want light armor for the strongest stacks.

Brian

[Kojiro]

Yeah the guns are 94 damage a piece. I have a class with three of them but less armour (just 5xlight). I really have no idea what I'm doing and the researching is just too much effort.

[brianeyci]

Yeah the guns are 94 damage a piece. I have a class with three of them but less armour (just 5xlight). I really have no idea what I'm doing and the researching is just too much effort.

My "research" was looking at the data file for the highest damage Raider weapon, realizing that light cruiser was the smallest ship with a large mount, and rushing von neumann shipyards.

You're not missing much I'm telling you.

The only thing is it's absolutely necessary for more complex technology trees, like the EA. U235 only this turn found out about LMSB (EA Ultra Weapons 4, Molecular Weapons 10). The idea that you need two or more technology areas for a weapons is novel, but because it's hidden it forces people to look through data files. At the very least there should be an in game way of checking the technology tree. Maybe a dummy mount with a readme file so people can go through, if a mod really wants multiple technology areas for components.

Brian

[GuppyShark]

Wrong thread, guys.

[brianeyci]

Sssh you.

Anyway I thought a lot about the new SDN game, and I think that Covenant was right. 5000 points makes everybody play with the clone, all four of the worthwhile racial traits and maxed out stats. I'd rather there be a choice between advanced storage techniques, ancient race, propulsion experts and hardy industrialists. A person with two traits would sacrifice a lot of points from everwhere else.

So 2000 it is. Peeps do not have to quit and rejoin, as this bombards my e-mail, so instead when the game starts I'll just ask everybody to send me their new 2k empires.

<edit>I changed my mind again. Likely there will be zero points as that forces people to dump points from their core stats to even contemplate getting a racial. The racials are just to fucking good... 20% stronger homeworlds, or seeing where all the good tech planets are? Yeah, I think I'll go with 0 points. And 5 homeworlds too, since 10 is way too many and makes 20% larger homeworlds a no-brainer.</edit>

Brian

[brianeyci]

Time for bug testing (great, two days before she comes back lol, but oh well).

Nova has discovered at least one bug. Small chemical thruster still gives fighters only one movement.

If you want to help, download this maximum technology game. Then design ships with each one of the following components and make sure each of the components do what they're supposed to do. The ship captains especially with wierd abilities like resource conversion and cloak detection need to be tested. Testing cloaking ability will require that you make contact with yourself and see if cloaking's defeated.

Aetheric Mirror
Aetheric Nimbus Shield
Antichronon Pulse Blaster
Anti-Graviton Shunt
Auto-Defender
Bridge
Cargo Bay I, II, III
Centotaph of Rylex
Chemical Rocket Thruster
Chromium Gong
Cobalt Torpedo
Construction Drydock
Continuum Renderer Array
Crew Quarters
Deadly A-Bomb
Drone Warhead
Eidetic Matrix Bubble
Electron Accelerator Beam
Even Deadlier A-Bomb
Expanded Fuel Tank
Fighter Bay
Fighter Cockpit
Fission Missile Rack
Fission Torpedo Pod
Fusion Rocket Launcher
Garthan Warlord
Gas Giant Colony
Gatling Laser
Gauss Cannon
Graviton Distegrator
High Explosive Chaingun
Horloge of Primordius
Hospital Bay
Hotshot Test Pilot
Hydrogen Fusion Drive
Hyperdrive
Hyper-Ebola Plague Bomb
Hyperfoam Injector
Hyperwave Filter Array
Hyperwave Noise Generator
Hyperwave Signature Projector
Hyperwave Tele-Scrambler
Ice Colony
Impaler Missile Rack
Infinate Improbability Reactor
Just-Add-Water Planet Constructor
Kawangi Overlord
Klackar Merchant
Laser Beam
Lava Bomb Launcher
Lava Burst Cone
Lava Flash Crater
Life Support
Limited Vacuum Colapser
Lookout Frogs
Major Brass
Mark Two Eyeball (2)
Mass Driver
Master Computer
Micrometorite Gun
Mine Sweeper
Mine Warhead
Mnemonic Sequencer
Molydenum Cone Cannon
Moon Marauder
Mukitan Explorer
Multidrone Repair Bot
Multi-Missile Launcher
Nebulae Graviton Emitter
Nebular Garbage Scow Module
Nebular Plow
Neptunium Railgun
Neutron Bomb
Neutronium Armor
Nova Bomb Launcher
Orbital Spacedock
Outpost Module
Particle Vortex Cannon
Personal Ray Gun
Pirate Queen
Plasma Blaster
Plasma Coil Cloaker
Plasma Torch
Pisotron Scrambler Beam
Robo - Farmers
Robo - Miners
robo - Rad Extractors
Rock Colony
Rogue Arms Dealer
Sarditon Optimizer (5)
Satellite Computer Core
Scaffold Space Yard
Self - Destruct Device
Small Armor
Small Chemical Engine
Small Emissive Armor
Stellar Plasma Sphere
Strange Quark Projector
Subaether Field
Tachyon Ray Gun
Tan'ru Invader
Three-headed Theep
Timeless Bauble
Torc of Babulon
Tri-Titanium Armor
Troop Cockpit
Unemployed Dark Lord
Urluquai Hunter
Utility Bay
Weapons Platform Computer Core
Zeluig Monocle
Zorg Helmsman

Too bad the maximum technology game doesn't give you the better hulls. Hulls and mounts need to be tested as well. So do facilities. But I guess that can wait.

I have the following suggestion for the modification.

settings.txt

Code: Select all

Characteristic Maintenance Aptitude Max Pct                           := 120
Characteristic Maintenance Aptitude Min Pct                           := 80

Instead, lock the maximum and minimum at 100 percent. If the maintainence base is 25%, then raising it to 20% means a 5% maintainence and raising it to 115% means a 10% maintainence and the 120% guy can have 2x more ships. You may also want to take a look at cultural modifiers (definitely get rid or nerf bezerkers). Maybe you can lock intelligence and research at 100% too so you can't get free points off of it. Maybe you could go through the traits list and prune the useless traits out so there's only the good ones too, and adjust the traits. I think it should go 2500, 2000, and 1000 for excellent, good and average traits. I think useless traits like Mechanoids and Lucky and Racial Traits should leave, while the better traits like Hardy Industrialists, Advanced Storage should cost 2500. Propulsion Experts and Ancient Race should cost 2000. Natural Merchants and Advanced Power should cost 1000, but for Advanced Power up the supply range to +50% instead of just +25%. Definitely avoid the B5 syndrome of having useless tech areas or traits please.

The mod just needs a little polishing and we can start killing I think .

Brian

P.S. I have also decided that the game will likely be 0 racial starting points, since I've received positive feedback. Okay, just one from Nova, but since nobody says anything about it I think that 0 racial points is a great idea. If Nephtys changes the point cost of advanced racial traits, then it'd be a struggle getting enough points for Hardy Industrialists or Advanced Storage Techniques, which is how it should be. Every race will then have one defining characteristic, or two if your base stats are utter crap. Likely it will be a five homeworld good start with high resource start for the +100k research bonus.

Nephtys, I've put some of my ideas together in settings.txt, racialtraits.txt and cultures.txt .

[brianeyci]

I've made ships for all the Captains and will finish testing tomorrow. But hm. It's a rather lot of work to test everything. I was wondering if someone wants to split up the work.

Anyway. I thought about it a lot, and it's likely we'll keep playing SE:IV for a long while. It's going to take years for SE:V's mods to catch up to SE:IV. So Covenant, get cracking on your mod . Also I guess I'll have to make a mod, and so will Tux, and everybody else.

I want to give Adamant another chance later. And, when the new Star Trek mod comes out.

Brian

[Nova Andromeda]

-Is the mod goddess back yet? Is there still more testing to do?

[brianeyci]

-Is the mod goddess back yet? Is there still more testing to do?

She is back. There is still more testing and one more person testing would make for less bugs. I have been trying to find time, but working two 30 hour jobs a week just sucked everything up. My last day of work's either today or tomorrow (one job quit, one more to go), so a new patch should be out by tomorrow or the day after, and people can start uploading new empires by Monday. Likely the game won't start on September 4th like I said on the news, since it takes time for people getting their ass in gear (I should know).

Brian

[Nova Andromeda]

-Is the mod goddess back yet? Is there still more testing to do?

She is back. There is still more testing and one more person testing would make for less bugs. I have been trying to find time, but working two 30 hour jobs a week just sucked everything up. My last day of work's either today or tomorrow (one job quit, one more to go), so a new patch should be out by tomorrow or the day after, and people can start uploading new empires by Monday. Likely the game won't start on September 4th like I said on the news, since it takes time for people getting their ass in gear (I should know).

Brian

-What specifically do you need tested still? I may have a couple hours of free time to spare. Where can I get your current testing game?

[Nephtys]

-Is the mod goddess back yet? Is there still more testing to do?

She is back. There is still more testing and one more person testing would make for less bugs. I have been trying to find time, but working two 30 hour jobs a week just sucked everything up. My last day of work's either today or tomorrow (one job quit, one more to go), so a new patch should be out by tomorrow or the day after, and people can start uploading new empires by Monday. Likely the game won't start on September 4th like I said on the news, since it takes time for people getting their ass in gear (I should know).

Brian

-What specifically do you need tested still? I may have a couple hours of free time to spare. Where can I get your current testing game?

The version has not yet changed. I'm in need of balance and bugquashing help on those items Brian mentioned, and opinions if some types of planet are too rare (Ie, shield planets or something)

[Nova Andromeda]

She is back. There is still more testing and one more person testing would make for less bugs. I have been trying to find time, but working two 30 hour jobs a week just sucked everything up. My last day of work's either today or tomorrow (one job quit, one more to go), so a new patch should be out by tomorrow or the day after, and people can start uploading new empires by Monday. Likely the game won't start on September 4th like I said on the news, since it takes time for people getting their ass in gear (I should know).

Brian

-What specifically do you need tested still? I may have a couple hours of free time to spare. Where can I get your current testing game?

The version has not yet changed. I'm in need of balance and bugquashing help on those items Brian mentioned, and opinions if some types of planet are too rare (Ie, shield planets or something)

-I need to know what Brian has tested so far and where his latest test game can be found.
-I haven't ever seen any shield planets (do you mean facilities or tech?). Perhaps you should list the percentages for each type of ruin tech. or tell us where to find them. Without playing the game a hundred times (no exageration) it is hard to tell if one just bad luck or not.

[brianeyci]

-I need to know what Brian has tested so far and where his latest test game can be found.
-I haven't ever seen any shield planets (do you mean facilities or tech?). Perhaps you should list the percentages for each type of ruin tech. or tell us where to find them. Without playing the game a hundred times (no exageration) it is hard to tell if one just bad luck or not.

To be honest very little, mostly because I came to the same conclusion as you. A maximum technology game doesn't give the ship hulls or all the technology available. I wanted to really test it, and that meant altering components and ship hulls to be normal tech so they were available at the start of a max tech game, and I knew that would take a long time so I kept putting it off. Trogdor has played several full games and found some issues, although they ended up more to do with playing style.

It is confirmed, today was my last day at work. That means I finally have a whole day off without work tomorrow, so I can systematically test every component tonight and tomorrow. For the balance and cost issues, I am not so sure. The research in the beginning makes turn 1 more interesting, but if it turns out it is unbalanced, just make all technology cost 100k+ research points so it completely depends on luck would be my suggestion. But then, we have to make sure things like drone, fighter and troops can be discovered in ruins.

The worst part about it is, you can't prove a negative. That is, you can't test for a drone hull in a ruin unless like you say you run a zillion turns. Maybe a good way would be to set up 10 homeworlds, set up the colonization ministers with no opponents and let them go crazy clicking end turn 500 times. And using a checklist making sure every component shows up.

Brian

[GuppyShark]

I've started work on my SEV:BattleTech mod.