Jedi Invisibility Powers

[Lord_Xerxes]

Obi-Wan, on the other hand, is more calm most of the time. The only time he loses his temper is when Maul skewers Jinn, which, oddly enough, allows him to win. .

Personally, I think that was the only thing that allowed him to win the fight. After Jinn's death, Obi seems far more focused and precise. If he had stayed calm, as the Jedi teachings say, and not giving in to his human qualities (natural to be angry in such a situation), I would speculate that he would have been slain too.

Which brings my point full circle. After being more precise, and stop his wasteful twirls and recklessness, he eventually......though almost not.....achieves victory. The cost of him doing so was Qui's death. Which may not have occured at all if he'd been more focused and more careful in the first place.

[SirNitram]

Obi-Wan, on the other hand, is more calm most of the time. The only time he loses his temper is when Maul skewers Jinn, which, oddly enough, allows him to win. .

Personally, I think that was the only thing that allowed him to win the fight. After Jinn's death, Obi seems far more focused and precise. If he had stayed calm, as the Jedi teachings say, and not giving in to his human qualities (natural to be angry in such a situation), I would speculate that he would have been slain too.

Which brings my point full circle. After being more precise, and stop his wasteful twirls and recklessness, he eventually......though almost not.....achieves victory. The cost of him doing so was Qui's death. Which may not have occured at all if he'd been more focused and more careful in the first place.

Powerful, the Dark Side is. That's a point we get shown often. It can make even a clumsy Padawan a match for a Sith Lord.

[Lord_Xerxes]

Obi-Wans failings are because he is still in training, not ready for a battle with a Sith, and, ultimately, because he isn't ready to take on the Dark Side.

Again, i've posted an agreement here. These tendancies seem to be related to padawan's. But one might think that if you're facing an enemy you haven't faced before, you might be more careful than usual.

You are welcome to your emotions and opinions, but don't state them as fact. Obi-Wan simply was not ready for a situation like the one that unfolded on Naboo.

I didn't mean to it to sound like I was saying the only reason why Qui died was because Obi-Wan fucked up. What I meant to say is that he could have prevented Jinn's death, if he was more careful.

He may also could not have. Even if Obi made it in at the same time as Jinn, Jinn may still have been slain. But, I do feel there is a measure of fuck up here. Which is why I started this debate after Mike posted those figures of speed for the Force Run.

BTW, Mike...will you be reflecting those findings somewhere on your site other than here? It would be nice to have an easily accessible, hard-copy of those pics and the info readily available for future use.

[Master of Ossus]

Corran Horn has the ability to alter other people's minds to prevent them from detecting him, even when they are walking next to him. If you believe that that is what is going on in this scene (ie. that this technique can also fool the camera), then they have retained the ability. I believe that Jedi Master Skywalker has the ability to hide himself from detection, when he tries to, however it is unclear whether he is using this power or something even more exotic.

Isn't there something in the Zahn books about Luke and/or Mara hiding themselves from cameras with the force? I've got this vague memory of "he used to force to manipulate the electronics of the sensors to hide [her/his/their] passing". Or maybe it's Crimson Empire.

I seem to remember something like that, too, but I can't remember when it was done or what the source was.

I'm not sure what relevence the question has, however. Since the ability is canonically usable by a Padawan learner, it would be astonishing if it were lost so easily.

Some people have a knack for certain things, eg Coran horn was absorbing energy - something his line has a knack for - even though he didn't know how he did it (eg, rescuing one of the Jedi students from the boiling rock pool in I Jedi). This ability could simply be something OWK has a knack for (similar to the two Anakin's knack for using the force on technology - something even experienced Jedi sometime struggle to do)

Plus, OWK is hardly a typical padawan learner - he leaps straight to Jedi Master a couple of weeks later.

Obi-Wan, while a very talented Jedi, was never promoted above Jedi Knight. I think you are mistaken.

[Crown]

Isn't there something in the Zahn books about Luke and/or Mara hiding themselves from cameras with the force? I've got this vague memory of "he used to force to manipulate the electronics of the sensors to hide [her/his/their] passing". Or maybe it's Crimson Empire.

I seem to remember something like that, too, but I can't remember when it was done or what the source was.

I think that you are both refering to the Black Fleet Crisis (ewwh) on this one.

Lord_Xerxes and SirNitram you are both right and wrong. Xerxes, you seem to be arguing http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

While I agree wholeheartedly, let's not forget for one moment the sheer amount of beating that Obi-Wan was subjected to, he was getting his ass handed to him, and more than one occasion, the only reason he survived was because Qui-Gon was there. However surely he must have taken *some* damage from the fight, look at how tired everyone was during the whole thing, Qui-Gon takes a break to meditate and catch his breath, and Obi-Wan is panting like he just ran a mile.

The point is that they all were clearly exhausted, Sansweet makes this point well, while we might say 'But they are Jedi!', well yes they are, but they are fighting a Sith! This is slightly different, since the AotC novelisation does tell us that when Force users do battle, they fight on two planes. So obviously this would be a more exhausting battle, yes?

And also, Obi-Wan getting angry at Qui-Gon's death, nearly lead to his own death, remember the Force push Maul used? IIRC that was only possible because Obi-Wan was tapping into the Dark Side, allowing an avenue for Maul to attack with the Force. But when Obi-Wan calmed himself, the look on Maul's face was bewielderment (spell?), he could no longer read what was going on with Obi-Wan, which allowed Obi-Wan to triumph over him. Worst. Plot. Device. Ever.

Well I hope I have made a big enough ass out of myself now...

[Crown]

Obi-Wan, while a very talented Jedi, was never promoted above Jedi Knight. I think you are mistaken.

There is a Sansweet quote saying as much in the Jedi Council Archives.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I wonder how the Trekkies will react.

Probably are indifferent. Most rational trekkies understand that a Jedi would be a serious problem if one were to board a starship, this ability only reinforces that belief.

Though I ask you, is this ability lost among Jedi? Has it ever been demonstrated in any Jedi post Endor?

It depends on what you mean. Corran Horn has the ability to alter other people's minds to prevent them from detecting him, even when they are walking next to him. If you believe that that is what is going on in this scene (ie. that this technique can also fool the camera), then they have retained the ability. I believe that Jedi Master Skywalker has the ability to hide himself from detection, when he tries to, however it is unclear whether he is using this power or something even more exotic. I'm not sure what relevence the question has, however. Since the ability is canonically usable by a Padawan learner, it would be astonishing if it were lost so easily.

In the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy he can convince people he looks like a persona he made up in his imagination and not Luke Skywalker.

[Robert Treder]

Just saw this on the IMDb's "Goofs" page for EI:

"Incorrectly regarded as goofs: As the Jedi run from the droidekas, they disappear (or at least become very faint) briefly. This is a deliberate effect to indicate the speed of their departure."

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the Jedi actually do become translucent, just pointing out that other sources have picked up on the scene as well. I find Crown and Wong's postulations to be very good.

As far as the disappearing trick in other EU, Kyle Katarn may have been able to do this. In Dark Forces II, Kyle has a 'persuasion' trick that looks to the camera like he becomes mostly invisible, except for a slight blue shimmer. The accompanying text indicates that he is simply casting this illusion through telepathy, but it is not conclusive. The fact that the player sees it can be taken to mean that the "camera" saw it (which would imply that he did physically become translucent) or that the "camera" is not a camera, but a representation of the omniscient player in-universe, who is fooled by the trick. Either way, the fact is that Katarn was able to at least make people see him in a manner similar to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's invisibility trick.
Interestingly, if this invisibility trick is somehow related to the afterlife apparition trick, that might explain how Katarn came into knowledge of it, since his mentor was the deceased Jedi Qu Rahn, who appeared to him in the same ghost-like manner as Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin.
By the time of Jedi Knight II, Kyle carried out his covert operations by means of obviously affecting the minds of onlookers, rather than becoming invisible. However, Kyle appeared to be less powerful in Jedi Outcast than he was in Jedi Knight. Perhaps Rahn was lending him power in Jedi Knight, as Obi Wan did to Luke in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. I don't know.

[Crayz9000]

However, Kyle appeared to be less powerful in Jedi Outcast than he was in Jedi Knight. Perhaps Rahn was lending him power in Jedi Knight, as Obi Wan did to Luke in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. I don't know.

Apparently, from the Jedi Outcast story, Katarn is kind of treading a fine line. He uses both light and dark powers with impunity, but is holding back compared to his younger years.

[Lord_Xerxes]

Crown, the link you sent me was good. And I'm glad to see that others have also noticed the details that I did about Obi's carelessness.

That site put it best. Once or twice is ok, but they went overkill with it.

[Crown]

I know and I agree, it was definetly an over kill, but still;

"You are reckless!". "So was I, if you remember."

At least by AotC he settled down a bit.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Corran Horn has the ability to alter other people's minds to prevent them from detecting him, even when they are walking next to him. If you believe that that is what is going on in this scene (ie. that this technique can also fool the camera), then they have retained the ability. I believe that Jedi Master Skywalker has the ability to hide himself from detection, when he tries to, however it is unclear whether he is using this power or something even more exotic.

Isn't there something in the Zahn books about Luke and/or Mara hiding themselves from cameras with the force? I've got this vague memory of "he used to force to manipulate the electronics of the sensors to hide [her/his/their] passing". Or maybe it's Crimson Empire.

I seem to remember something like that, too, but I can't remember when it was done or what the source was..

Leia just blocked a security gunship's gunnery officer from seeing the Falcon on his targeting displays. It was still on the screen, his mind was simply clouded. It happened in Dark Empire when they were infiltrating Palpatine's fortress on Byss.

[Howedar]

Well I'll be damned. Wacky.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I wonder how the Trekkies will react.

Probably are indifferent. Most rational trekkies understand that a Jedi would be a serious problem if one were to board a starship, this ability only reinforces that belief.

Though I ask you, is this ability lost among Jedi? Has it ever been demonstrated in any Jedi post Endor?

It depends on what you mean. Corran Horn has the ability to alter other people's minds to prevent them from detecting him, even when they are walking next to him. If you believe that that is what is going on in this scene (ie. that this technique can also fool the camera), then they have retained the ability. I believe that Jedi Master Skywalker has the ability to hide himself from detection, when he tries to, however it is unclear whether he is using this power or something even more exotic. I'm not sure what relevence the question has, however. Since the ability is canonically usable by a Padawan learner, it would be astonishing if it were lost so easily.

Thank you. I figured there would be something similar in one of the books, but I wanted to be sure instead of just assuming there was.

Just because a Padawan is familiar with the technique does not mean necessarily mean Master Skywalker would be, if you recall he was having difficulty finding things to teach his students.

The relevance of the question is simple.....I wanted to know.

[Eleas]

As far as the disappearing trick in other EU, Kyle Katarn may have been able to do this. In Dark Forces II, Kyle has a 'persuasion' trick that looks to the camera like he becomes mostly invisible, except for a slight blue shimmer. The accompanying text indicates that he is simply casting this illusion through telepathy, but it is not conclusive. The fact that the player sees it can be taken to mean that the "camera" saw it (which would imply that he did physically become translucent) or that the "camera" is not a camera, but a representation of the omniscient player in-universe, who is fooled by the trick. Either way, the fact is that Katarn was able to at least make people see him in a manner similar to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's invisibility trick.

AFAIK, this trick doesn't work on droids. Also, obviously, one can stand still while employing it.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Obi-Wan, while a very talented Jedi, was never promoted above Jedi Knight. I think you are mistaken.

While being a Master usually denotes seniority and skill and power, it does not always have to be the case. Obi-Wan is never a Master because he never trains a Padawan to Knighthood.

[Durandal]

Obi-Wan, while a very talented Jedi, was never promoted above Jedi Knight. I think you are mistaken.

While being a Master usually denotes seniority and skill and power, it does not always have to be the case. Obi-Wan is never a Master because he never trains a Padawan to Knighthood.

Then why does everyone call him "Master Kenobi"?

[His Divine Shadow]

Then why does everyone call him "Master Kenobi"?

Might have something to do with a secret S&M cult inside the Jedi order, but I'm just speculating now.