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I would aggree to the mage being reduced to an idiot, but I think the goa'ould should survive, that way I can implant the goa'ould in another host and get some information out of it. (whatever information the goa'ould retreived before the host went kapuski)

Also, I would the sarcofigus be able to remove the mental damage? I would assume not, as we have never seen it cure a head wound and there would be little point to this if we could heal him.

I think Bugsby has come up with a reasonable compromise. It's fair to both sides since neither gains a major advantage out of it.


But one thing I'd like to say, intelligence operations take time and effort. People ought to keep that in mind to prevent things like that.

lazerus wrote:I would aggree to the mage being reduced to an idiot, but I think the goa'ould should survive, that way I can implant the goa'ould in another host and get some information out of it. (whatever information the goa'ould retreived before the host went kapuski)

Also, I would the sarcofigus be able to remove the mental damage? I would assume not, as we have never seen it cure a head wound and there would be little point to this if we could heal him.

Frankly, given the whole thing. I think it's fair to say both are toast and the damage is irreversible. You're whole operation is way to easy for you to get so much out of it.

Stormbringer wrote:

lazerus wrote:I would aggree to the mage being reduced to an idiot, but I think the goa'ould should survive, that way I can implant the goa'ould in another host and get some information out of it. (whatever information the goa'ould retreived before the host went kapuski)

Also, I would the sarcofigus be able to remove the mental damage? I would assume not, as we have never seen it cure a head wound and there would be little point to this if we could heal him.

Frankly, given the whole thing. I think it's fair to say both are toast and the damage is irreversible. You're whole operation is way to easy for you to get so much out of it.

Uh........hold on, lets go a cost/benifit analysis......
Benifit: A few scraps of information out of the brain of a mid-level officer
Cost: Alerting my foe's to the presense of my spy network.

...........how is that so broken?

lazerus wrote:Uh........hold on, lets go a cost/benifit analysis......
Benifit: A few scraps of information out of the brain of a mid-level officer
Cost: Alerting my foe's to the presense of my spy network.

...........how is that so broken?

Again, since you didn't seem to pay attention the first time.

1) You had some pretty detailed intelligence with no prior set up at all. That tends to be some what problematic to having a fun, fair game to begin with.

2) This is an STGOD game, it's virtually impossible to have counter-intelligence unless one actually posts intel-ops before hand. So you risked little in getting that intel and didn't compromise anything else.

On that alone, I'd really say that it's fair enough to call your operation a limited sucess.

Proposed Nation/Force: Overseer.

After suffering a serious of debilitating setbacks at the hands of the Rael and the world of Alber-Toril, the Overseer, a massively powerful GI has retreated to the hopeful safety of a system of dead worlds. This is no setback for itself; it's cavalier attitude towards stripmining worlds for resources and it's lack of organic soldiers in a normal situation makes this ideal.

With it's Construct Armies rapidly being replenished from the mining operation, the Overseer is again casting an eye on the Galaxy, and seeking a way to prevent the organics all around it from ever switching it off.

Overview: Completely insane(Delusional paranoia) Genuine Intelligence program run amok. Obessed with self-preservation to levels of ridiculousness(Seven copies of the Overseer run in tandem on it's fortress-homeworld, for maxmimum redundancy in the case of sneak attack). I've confined it to one system for now because, well, when you're literally stripping every planet down for parts, it'd be a bit unbalanced to have the same vast tracts as everyone else.

Stormbringer wrote:

lazerus wrote:Uh........hold on, lets go a cost/benifit analysis......
Benifit: A few scraps of information out of the brain of a mid-level officer
Cost: Alerting my foe's to the presense of my spy network.

...........how is that so broken?

Again, since you didn't seem to pay attention the first time.

1) You had some pretty detailed intelligence with no prior set up at all. That tends to be some what problematic to having a fun, fair game to begin with.

2) This is an STGOD game, it's virtually impossible to have counter-intelligence unless one actually posts intel-ops before hand. So you risked little in getting that intel and didn't compromise anything else.

On that alone, I'd really say that it's fair enough to call your operation a limited sucess.

It's COMPLETLY UNSUCCESSFULL if I don't get at least some info out of this guy.

The whole point was that I need some info on what they were capable of. Not detailed battle plans or the like, but how fast their FTL goes, what kind of ground troops they use, roughly how powerfull their ships are.

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1) I've been in this area 20/30 years, and goa'ould create spy networks fast. When the covenant fell, my old spy network there just changed paths.

2) Oh no, risking a WAR with 2 major powers isn't risking anything at all. Nope.

SirNitram wrote:Proposed Nation/Force: Overseer.

After suffering a serious of debilitating setbacks at the hands of the Rael and the world of Alber-Toril, the Overseer, a massively powerful GI has retreated to the hopeful safety of a system of dead worlds. This is no setback for itself; it's cavalier attitude towards stripmining worlds for resources and it's lack of organic soldiers in a normal situation makes this ideal.

With it's Construct Armies rapidly being replenished from the mining operation, the Overseer is again casting an eye on the Galaxy, and seeking a way to prevent the organics all around it from ever switching it off.

Overview: Completely insane(Delusional paranoia) Genuine Intelligence program run amok. Obessed with self-preservation to levels of ridiculousness(Seven copies of the Overseer run in tandem on it's fortress-homeworld, for maxmimum redundancy in the case of sneak attack). I've confined it to one system for now because, well, when you're literally stripping every planet down for parts, it'd be a bit unbalanced to have the same vast tracts as everyone else.

1) this goes in the OOB
2) You need to list territorial holdings and fleet details

Lazerus, give and take. If your intel is good enough to snatch the guy in teh first place, it's good enough to find out what their troops are like, how fast tehre FTL is, and so forth.

lazerus wrote:

SirNitram wrote:Proposed Nation/Force: Overseer.

After suffering a serious of debilitating setbacks at the hands of the Rael and the world of Alber-Toril, the Overseer, a massively powerful GI has retreated to the hopeful safety of a system of dead worlds. This is no setback for itself; it's cavalier attitude towards stripmining worlds for resources and it's lack of organic soldiers in a normal situation makes this ideal.

With it's Construct Armies rapidly being replenished from the mining operation, the Overseer is again casting an eye on the Galaxy, and seeking a way to prevent the organics all around it from ever switching it off.

Overview: Completely insane(Delusional paranoia) Genuine Intelligence program run amok. Obessed with self-preservation to levels of ridiculousness(Seven copies of the Overseer run in tandem on it's fortress-homeworld, for maxmimum redundancy in the case of sneak attack). I've confined it to one system for now because, well, when you're literally stripping every planet down for parts, it'd be a bit unbalanced to have the same vast tracts as everyone else.

1) this goes in the OOB
2) You need to list territorial holdings and fleet details

Only if people like the idea that's proposed. Otherwise it's just flotsam and doesn't belong there.

Thirdfain wrote:Lazerus, give and take. If your intel is good enough to snatch the guy in teh first place, it's good enough to find out what their troops are like, how fast tehre FTL is, and so forth.

Yes, but it's NOT good enough to know what a powerfull mage can do.

Look, all i'm asking is that I get SOMTHING of what I risked. This can never happen again because security will be tight.

I pulled a fast one on Aly, that i'm NEVER going to be able to pull again. And I got some minor benifits out of it. Seems balenced enough to me.

Only if people like the idea that's proposed. Otherwise it's just flotsam and doesn't belong there.
_________________

Oh, in that case, no real objections. But you'll note that warlike powers tend to get thier asses kicked.

SirNitram wrote:Proposed Nation/Force: Overseer.

Pseudo-Evil Nation = Natural Ally for Me!

I like it.

I'd just like to point out that in age where tech levels are high enough to plant bugs via a hand shake wouldn't it be reasonable of governments to at least scan their officals and high officers on a regular basis?

I figured the U.P gives it's higher level officals and officers full medicals go overs at least every 3 to 4 months and that other powers do the same.

frigidmagi wrote:I'd just like to point out that in age where tech levels are high enough to plant bugs via a hand shake wouldn't it be reasonable of governments to at least scan their officals and high officers on a regular basis?

I figured the U.P gives it's higher level officals and officers full medicals go overs at least every 3 to 4 months and that other powers do the same.

Sounds reasonable.

Pretty much, Frigid.

Lazerus, my problem is, you DIDN't pull a fast one on Alyrium. You didn't maneuver him in to placing a mage into a weak position. You just declared that you had grabbed him. Granted, the mage was more or less in the most vulnerable place possible, but still... It seemed very arbitrary

Granted, the mage was more or less in the most vulnerable place possible

Fine then, I took advantage of an opprotunity.

but still... It seemed very arbitrary

It won't happen again.

lazerus wrote:It's COMPLETLY UNSUCCESSFULL if I don't get at least some info out of this guy.

The whole point was that I need some info on what they were capable of. Not detailed battle plans or the like, but how fast their FTL goes, what kind of ground troops they use, roughly how powerfull their ships are.

Kidnapping some one for techincal specs is a really stupid idea. Sorry, but that's that. Far better to have used your spies to gather information rather than using them to kidnap mages to obtain information. There's a reason professional intelligence services don't engage in behaviour like that and that's because it's usually better to gain intel through more conventional channels and far safer.

lazerus wrote:1) I've been in this area 20/30 years, and goa'ould create spy networks fast. When the covenant fell, my old spy network there just changed paths.

Yet the goua'ould are new to the area right? And the fact is that any hand off is going to take more time than an eye blink.

lazerus wrote:2) Oh no, risking a WAR with 2 major powers isn't risking anything at all. Nope.

Frankly, if you want to get away clean and not get nailed (while having done nothing in the way of prep posts) then you're not going to be allowed to get much out of it. If you want to get more out of it, you're going to have to pay some penalties for it like being IDed.


That's the way I see it and I think everyone pretty much agrees.

lazerus wrote:

Granted, the mage was more or less in the most vulnerable place possible

Fine then, I took advantage of an opprotunity.

No, you didn't. You created the oppurtunity yourself in a single post not as a reaction to some thing Alyrium did or as a result of something you crafted over time. There's a big difference.

lazerus wrote:

but still... It seemed very arbitrary

It won't happen again.

I'm still not convinced it should be allowed a first time.

Laz, you realize that your post is still going to be subject to whatever solution to all this is? At least wait until Alyrium has had his say.

No, you didn't. You created the oppurtunity yourself in a single post not as a reaction to some thing Alyrium did or as a result of something you crafted over time. There's a big difference.

The opprotunity is inherent to the way Aly occupied that world.

Yet the goua'ould are new to the area right? And the fact is that any hand off is going to take more time than an eye blink.

The goa'ould are NOT new to the area, they were in STGOD 1!

That's the way I see it and I think everyone pretty much agrees.

That's the way you see it, but I don't think everyone aggreess with you.

Far better to have used your spies to gather information rather than using them to kidnap mages to obtain information.

Coventional spy networks are worth crap in this case, since you have to be a mage to hold any position other then streetsweeper in his society, and none of my people are mages.

lazerus wrote:

No, you didn't. You created the oppurtunity yourself in a single post not as a reaction to some thing Alyrium did or as a result of something you crafted over time. There's a big difference.

The opprotunity is inherent to the way Aly occupied that world.

I agree with that. However gathering detailed intelligence on the mages deployed and then being able to pull of an abduction was all yours and done with out set up.

lazerus wrote:

Yet the goua'ould are new to the area right? And the fact is that any hand off is going to take more time than an eye blink.

The goa'ould are NOT new to the area, they were in STGOD 1!

But not yours.

lazerus wrote:

That's the way I see it and I think everyone pretty much agrees.

That's the way you see it, but I don't think everyone aggreess with you.

Far better to have used your spies to gather information rather than using them to kidnap mages to obtain information.

Coventional spy networks are worth crap in this case, since you have to be a mage to hold any position other then streetsweeper in his society, and none of my people are mages.

Then you're able to gather intelligence enough to pick out of weakling mage how? And frankly, nothing at all says that his mages are incorruptable. Bribery and blackmail are always intel staples for a reason.

Stormbringer wrote:

lazerus wrote:

No, you didn't. You created the oppurtunity yourself in a single post not as a reaction to some thing Alyrium did or as a result of something you crafted over time. There's a big difference.

The opprotunity is inherent to the way Aly occupied that world.

I agree with that. However gathering detailed intelligence on the mages deployed and then being able to pull of an abduction was all yours and done with out set up.

lazerus wrote:

Yet the goua'ould are new to the area right? And the fact is that any hand off is going to take more time than an eye blink.

The goa'ould are NOT new to the area, they were in STGOD 1!

But not yours.

lazerus wrote:

That's the way I see it and I think everyone pretty much agrees.

That's the way you see it, but I don't think everyone aggreess with you.

Far better to have used your spies to gather information rather than using them to kidnap mages to obtain information.

Coventional spy networks are worth crap in this case, since you have to be a mage to hold any position other then streetsweeper in his society, and none of my people are mages.

Then you're able to gather intelligence enough to pick out of weakling mage how? And frankly, nothing at all says that his mages are incorruptable. Bribery and blackmail are always intel staples for a reason.

1) Knowing patrool routes and shift times is not too hard when you have had a week or so to do it.

2) Goa'ould have a tendancy to "assimilate" the planets of their prediscessors. Sides' it's easy for me to set up a basic spy-network fast.

3) True, but if the bribed/blackmailed mage went and shouted to his boss, I would be involved in a war I most likely can't win. And if the "feeding frenzy" we saw on the covenant happens again, It woudl be IMPOSSIBLE to win.

1) Knowing patrool routes and shift times is not too hard when you have had a week or so to do it.

No, it wouldn't. But knowing enough to find a mage incapable of resisting is.

2) Goa'ould have a tendancy to "assimilate" the planets of their prediscessors. Sides' it's easy for me to set up a basic spy-network fast.

Please, explain a little why it is you've got super-spies super quick yet can't pursue more coventional avenues?

3) True, but if the bribed/blackmailed mage went and shouted to his boss, I would be involved in a war I most likely can't win. And if the "feeding frenzy" we saw on the covenant happens again, It woudl be IMPOSSIBLE to win.

And a kidnapping is a better idea?