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Beowulf wrote:

Darksider wrote:you're forgetting that I was on the outskirts of the system when the Black alliance ship started hitting the AU corvette. I was heading in system in full combat mode when this went down. The Liberator saw it happen.

Should have hit you as well then... ah well...

But you didn't notice me. Apparently my ship was doing loop-de-loops around the sun or somthing.

I wouldn't gloat too much, if I really wanted to insist I could allow Beowulf to retcon his posts (as you did). As it is, if you weren't seen it mean you're going to be so far away as to have lousy sensor records.

If there are going to be bitchouts over technology this often, I feel I should clarify one point:
Kzin vessels use a "Phalanx" point-defense system which was originally declared 24 November 2000 in the first SRDC order of battle. (to clarify on the really nasty HTL batteries in that declaration: this was back when HTLs were not 200GT badasses )

It's a network of beam lasers and sensor arrays that render the ship extremely difficult to hit with fighter attacks or missiles, except in the most extreme circumstances. As the ASVS STGOD went on, advances in jamming, missile, and fighter technology made it less and less effective... but we've regressed very severely in tech and I expect that missiles would be something of a waste of time.

Early SRDC (and by extension, current Kzin) ships were designed to counterattack the fighter and missile swarms which were somewhat common at that time in the STGOD. They nearly ignore missile salvos and close range to mix it up with their highly effective turbolasers. Operational flexibility is somewhat constrained, but they are very good in a scrap or slugging match. PRC vessels are not well suited to take them on.

Does this mean that Kzin vessels are essentially immune to missile and fighter attacks, AND tough in a short-range slugging match?

That would be, um, powergaming. I think that every nation on the map has vessels defended with

a network of beam lasers and sensor arrays

but that doesn't mean they are immune to missile fire- it is simply one of the many lines of defense.

Every Commonwealth ship in the fleet is protected by heavy PD, and some Commonwealth models are built entirely as PD platforms (escort frigates.) This doesn't mean Commonwealth ships are immune to missile barrages.

Unless your vessels devote an inordinate amount of space to PD, such that their regular armament suffers, then I will treat them as being no better defended than my own vessels.

Eh, my frigates devote the vast majority of their substantial space to PD. Makes them very good at holding off all the missile-happy people out there.

Thirdfain wrote:Does this mean that Kzin vessels are essentially immune to missile and fighter attacks,

Did I say that? Oops, no I didn't. I just said they were extremely resistant.

AND tough in a short-range slugging match?

That would be, um, powergaming.

I think you're reading way too much into this. The ships aren't going to be laughing off thousands of missiles and trashing 10 battleships for every corvette lost in close combat. It's just that they're optimized for Kzin tactics.

I think that every nation on the map has vessels defended with

a network of beam lasers and sensor arrays

but that doesn't mean they are immune to missile fire- it is simply one of the many lines of defense.

That might be true... except that the Phalanx system is a "monkey see monkey do" copy of technology that was highly advanced even back in the old days--whereas you're designing your systems with the equivalent of dark age engineering.

Unless your vessels devote an inordinate amount of space to PD, such that their regular armament suffers,

Were you reading the post? Did you review my OOB? My ships have virtually no missile launch abilities and minimal fighter capacity. So, yes, their regular armament does suffer.

Kzin ships are designed for speed, toughness, and close-range firepower; this is because Kzin tactics dictate a rapid closure with the enemy and engagement with guns. They scream and leap, and if all goes well they're all over you before you can reply, breaking up your formation and taking your ships apart.

This is a high-risk all-or-nothing style of warfare, and even if it goes well it results in high casualties.

then I will treat them as being no better defended than my own vessels.

Why does gaming on this forum suck so much? When I posted this on ASVS, people read "highly resistant to fighter and missile attack, highly effective at close range" and didn't whine about claiming immunity or whatever bullshit that was. They thought "oh, the usual avenues of attack are barred. Perhaps I should come up with another plan." I swear to God, outside of a couple people everyone on this STGOD is intent on claiming Transcend's legacy

Did you ever... oh, I don't know... consider using non-missile weapons at long range before you started bitching? Outside of furball range my ships aren't much better than the average, the best tactic would be to evade close contact and shoot it out.

Sir Nitram in the Story Thread wrote:(OOC: How tiresome that people always manage to guess exactly right when I go to the effort of making a trap.)

I'm proud to say that I'm not one of those people Many are the times that Commander Sanchez seriously fucked up. He even got accidentally killed by his cobelligerents, because he was too dense to realize that the SKS was blowing up it's own dimensional gate.

Were you reading the post? Did you review my OOB? My ships have virtually no missile launch abilities and minimal fighter capacity. So, yes, their regular armament does suffer.

Yes, I did read your post, and your OOB. Your OOB makes little reference to the armament of your vessels, and what is stated includes missile tubes.

Your OOB does not convey the information you just posted at all. In fact, with the preponderance of carriers in your fleet, in conveys the opposite impression.

I'm sorry if I've offended, but your first post made your vessels sound well neigh invincible, and your OOB did nothing to assuage that perception. Thank you for clearing up the problem.

Thirdfain wrote:Your OOB does not convey the information you just posted at all. In fact, with the preponderance of carriers in your fleet, in conveys the opposite impression.

Those carriers are transporting craft that are very massive (singleships are basically like little corvettes without FTL capability), so I need many carriers in order to get any significant number of them around.

I'm sorry if I've offended, but your first post made your vessels sound well neigh invincible, and your OOB did nothing to assuage that perception. Thank you for clearing up the problem.

Sorry. This STGOD just pisses me off a bit sometimes, what with that WH40K Death Virus, then the secret planet-killing explosion, and now this little controversy about undeclared communications abilities. I guess I just have preconceptions about how to go about things in these game.

EDIT:
I just took a look at the OOB, and my description of my cruisers does indeed make reference to missile tubes. To clarify further, those are intended to create a nuisance at long range. As the Kzin ships attempt to close to ideal engagement ranges, the missiles get shot off to try and force evasive action and break up the enemy formation, and to give fighters something to think about.

-shrug- that's why we have GMs. Keeps the game orderly.

I hope I get to go to war with the Patriarchy eventually, It'll be like when I used to read Niven. I am definately gonna name one of my warships the "Angel's Pencil."

Nothing wrong with those preconceptions. I wish everyone thought of the game a bit more like a story being written, and would take that in to account a little more often.

Hey, you have to understand Pablo, most of us are entirely new to this and are feeling our way in the dark. It happens and fortunately things are being sorted out rather than fought over endlessly.

Yeah, this is working FAR better than the previous 2 SD.net STGODS. I think the addition of experienced, present GMs is the important difference.

Thirdfain wrote:Yeah, this is working FAR better than the previous 2 SD.net STGODS. I think the addition of experienced, present GMs is the important difference.

It has indeed, at least from my perspective any way. And don't forget the Honorverse STGOD.

Stormbringer wrote:Hey, you have to understand Pablo, most of us are entirely new to this and are feeling our way in the dark. It happens and fortunately things are being sorted out rather than fought over endlessly.

Yeah, I know. I have to admit that I can be an ass at times... or all the time

Pablo Sanchez wrote:

Stormbringer wrote:Hey, you have to understand Pablo, most of us are entirely new to this and are feeling our way in the dark. It happens and fortunately things are being sorted out rather than fought over endlessly.

Yeah, I know. I have to admit that I can be an ass at times... or all the time

Egh, there have been times I've been tempted to bite some one's head off. It passes and you're not an ass all the time so I guess we'll let you live.


EDIT: This is the 14,000th post of my glorious career.

Erm, sorry for being inactive for so long, does anyone have a good idea of where the OA's new 'homeworld' should be located? Preferably in the territory of an alien species which doesn't like the idea of an outside group hopping in and attempting to terraform one of it's planets. Maybe near the Aquarians or Kzin?

Stormbringer wrote:You know what, I'm going to exercise the mod-stick on this one. Dahak, since this was sprung on every one with out any warning at all, I think it's best to consider that they simply didn't react in time to get a distress signal off. You'll have the tech and this time we'll all actually know. Fair?

However the debris and all this going to be pretty solid evidence so it's not like the results won't be the same.

Well, sounds fair. Though I hate to loose one ship

All this "Point-defense" crap is why I limit my ships to long range beam weapons. It's just easier that way.

Darksider wrote:All this "Point-defense" crap is why I limit my ships to long range beam weapons. It's just easier that way.

Turbolasers all the way, man!

But yeah, my ORBAT agrees with you.

My ships ave substantial point defense for the most part, and Turbolasers can be flak bursted...

Thirdfain, nice "diplomacy" post. Why don't you just straight out declare war?

Thirdfain? Don't you think you're getting a little too trigger happy?

Not at all. I think I am being PERFECTLY trigger happy. The bastards just ambushed and destroyed two naval vessels, and then tried to hide it!

I can't think of a good reason NOT to go to war over this.

Thirdfain wrote:Not at all. I think I am being PERFECTLY trigger happy. The bastards just ambushed and destroyed two naval vessels, and then tried to hide it!

I can't think of a good reason NOT to go to war over this.

That's true.


::::::Starts calling up the KSN reserves and activates all planetary defense systems.::::::::

Let's roll

Minor note. Anybody who goes to war with me won't be capturing much territory. All my major worlds have multi-layer defense networks. (I built them before, during and after the Azgarte war.) They have orbital battlestations capable of repelling entire fleets that are backed up by large numbers of planetary weapons.

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Dude, watch with powergaming. heavily building up all your worlds AND expanding your fleet? It won't fly with the GMs.