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Coyote wrote:

RogueIce wrote:Technically, Brandon was the usurper. Jeffery just got his rightful throne back. Brandon came to power via coup, after all.

Yeah, but Brandon was well-liked by th epeople; Jefffrey is an autocrat.

I mean, technically, Mussolini was the rightful leader of Italy, but...

Pretty much what I was thinking. Do we want to deal with an autocrat that has gone on a purge? Yeah, that will be great.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I'm feeling tempted to just lob a few nukes to settle the matter.

Apparently Emperor Heraclius needs an exorcism, for the ghost of General Sheppard clearly inhabits you.

Coyote wrote:

RogueIce wrote:Technically, Brandon was the usurper. Jeffery just got his rightful throne back. Brandon came to power via coup, after all.

Yeah, but Brandon was well-liked by th epeople; Jefffrey is an autocrat.

I mean, technically, Mussolini was the rightful leader of Italy, but...

Well, we'll push for a referrendum or something. Whether they rig it or not, well...we'll see. Maybe Jeffery will bribe the people into liking him or something.

In any case I'll be sticking around. If nothing else, that leaves me in a better position to judge the situation 'on the ground' as it were, when certain of my 'civilian contractors' head outside the base for leave and such.

RogueIce wrote:Apparently Emperor Heraclius needs an exorcism, for the ghost of General Sheppard clearly inhabits you.

That's not how Shep would have done it.

What Shep would have done is lob several dirty bombs and make sure they explode in high altitude to ensure maximum spread of radioactive material, thus killing off most of the populace.

OR, he uses nuclear carpet bombing. All I'm considering is lobbing one or two nukes. Big difference.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

RogueIce wrote:Apparently Emperor Heraclius needs an exorcism, for the ghost of General Sheppard clearly inhabits you.

That's not how Shep would have done it.

What Shep would have done is lob several dirty bombs and make sure they explode in high altitude to ensure maximum spread of radioactive material, thus killing off most of the populace.

OR, he uses nuclear carpet bombing. All I'm considering is lobbing one or two nukes. Big difference.

Mayhaps. Although since I'm keeping my embassy and base there, you'd probably start a much larger war. And well, I'm sure the FTO probably wouldn't like their continent being nuked.

Is the Vineyards still a member, BTW?

RogueIce wrote:Mayhaps. Although since I'm keeping my embassy and base there, you'd probably start a much larger war. And well, I'm sure the FTO probably wouldn't like their continent being nuked.

Is the Vineyards still a member, BTW?

It's but a mere thought, temptation.

Shep never does anything small though.

Shep would've just groundbursted a few nukes to taint the earth for fifty generations.

Note though that Jeffery is executing political opponents. Do we just let that thing slide by? Not a word of protest from the outside world?

We need to know what the reaction of the Vinish people are, really. While I think it is reaslistic to expect protests and even fighting in the streets, clashes with police and riots, that may not be the case. However, it has been clearly stated that Brandon had the support of the people, and Jeffrey is being a dictator.

If for some reason, it is being (unrealistically, IMO) portraye dthat the Vinish people are passively accepting this, there's not much we really can do, since any outside action will be met with either apathy or people will fight the 'invaders'.

It also remains to be seen if there is a resistance being formed.

The only way out of this mess in my opinion is to allow the country to elect their king. That would grant him legitimacy, and hopefully put an end to the endless cycles of coups. I take it this isn't the first, nor the last.

Nah, Rogue is right - Shep would've used a few nukes. It's the Third World, remember. A few nukes into the main cities and they'll be back to Square One, Stone Age or what you want to call that. That's extreme anyhow

Also, so what? Coup? Big deal. That happens every day in the world. The FTO can deal with it, or live with it, or go to war and deal with it in another manner, but why did everyone get so excited?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Note though that Jeffery is executing political opponents. Do we just let that thing slide by? Not a word of protest from the outside world?

One could make the argument that Brandon seized the government from Jeffery (which he did) and thus those members of Brandon's government who went along were, in fact, traitors to the legitimate (? How did Jeffery come into power?) government of the Vineyards. And treason being met with the death penalty is hardly unheard of.

Stas Bush wrote:Also, so what? Coup? Big deal. That happens every day in the world. The FTO can deal with it, or live with it, or go to war and deal with it in another manner, but why did everyone get so excited?

Well one could take the view some are excited because Brandon was "one of us" (an SDNer), assuming 'we' knew who he was. Of course that's not a very good IU justification for the obvious reasons.

OOC info, but this is very handy and fortuitous timing for King Arik and some desired defense bills.

Stas Bush wrote:Nah, Rogue is right - Shep would've used a few nukes. It's the Third World, remember. A few nukes into the main cities and they'll be back to Square One, Stone Age or what you want to call that. That's extreme anyhow

Thought the FTO on average was 2nd to 1st world?

Well, I was referencing the fact taht Shep was more prone to dickery than proper nuclear bombing. Recall the time he launched a nuclear rocket just to kill some dinosaurs.

Why are there Shinran troops in the Old Continent?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Why are there Shinran troops in the Old Continent?

Why not?

Calm down Shroom, call this a "Show the Flag" exercise. After all, CATO prefers beneficial relationships rather than antagonistic ones unless the situation calls for it.

We do, yes. And Shinra is sending troops over to friendly or technically fellow MESS nations, so it's okay. It's not like CATO'll be doing any exercises near Messica or anything anyway.

ROGUEICE: How's about I visit Shinra next after Canissia? We've got this Vinish mess to talk about, as well as how CATO relates to the MESS and our nations' relationships in these whacko times.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:We do, yes. And Shinra is sending troops over to friendly or technically fellow MESS nations, so it's okay. It's not like CATO'll be doing any exercises near Messica or anything anyway.

OOC information that this is, it's mostly done to be near the trouble spots: Japanistan (OC, obviously) and Velaria (OICAS).

Shroom Man 777 wrote:ROGUEICE: How's about I visit Shinra next after Canissia? We've got this Vinish mess to talk about, as well as how CATO relates to the MESS and our nations' relationships in these whacko times.

Fine by me, though obviously without the more odder aspects of a typical PM Shroom visit.

Hey Karmic, what about Eutopia? (Was that the name?) IIRC you had the Kingdom of Vineyards and Eutopia unify under Brandon's rule into the "Vineyards Commonwealth" or something like that, what will happen if Eutopia refuses to accept Jeffrey and maintains Brandon as Head of State.

And if Jeffrey was so unpopular before, and so clearly tied to militarist, isolationist factions, one would think there'd be public demonstrations and/or worker strikes, perhaps even a General Strike.

RogueIce wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:ROGUEICE: How's about I visit Shinra next after Canissia? We've got this Vinish mess to talk about, as well as how CATO relates to the MESS and our nations' relationships in these whacko times.

Fine by me, though obviously without the more odder aspects of a typical PM Shroom visit.

Do I detect AntiShroomitism in your post?

For the love of God Langley, reply the damn PM.

And now to engage in the noble art of nationalistic penis waving.

Zor

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:For the love of God Langley, reply the damn PM.

Already done. Sorry about the delay.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:For the love of God Langley, reply the damn PM.

Already done. Sorry about the delay.

Just that the once I approached you for an alliance in another game, there was no reply. Thanks.

Zor wrote:And now to engage in the noble art of nationalistic penis waving.

Zor

You bastard. I was gonna build that thing next year!