StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted another brief episode in the ongoing saga of Our Big Damn Heroes...

Stas Bush wrote:Just FYI, most of the Commune's nanorobotics, especially higher-grade, are not self-replicating. The nonsentient utility fog may be self-replicating, but antiagathics and cloud bodies are most certainly not. These types of nanorobots are produced at specified nanoassemblers.

So a Commune cloud is not a "grey goo" threat, unless it brings said grey goo with it - which is easy enough to determine by running a scan on it's composition.

Well, as long as the Commune is prepared to offer Umeria assurances to this effect, Commune cloud citizens are more or less free to travel in Umeria with only the most minor and noninvasive restrictions (mostly the aforementioned scans). Utility fog is a somewhat different question, because it does pose a bio-equivalent-hazard in principle.

Antiagathics are another question; you'd have to take that up with MiniWell and their equivalent of the Food and Drug administration. Assuming the Commune can document that antiagathics don't have significant medical side effects (and I presume they can), the Technocracy would not prevent them from being distributed. Though if significant numbers of Umerian citizens are flying off to join the Commune as the price for their doses of anti-agathics, Umeria will look into duplicating the technique among its own citizenry.

Of course, I'm sure you wouldn't start trying to destabilize the internal politics of one of the few nations in known space that isn't disturbed by your political system and dominated by rampaging capitalists or monarchists, right, Comrade Stas?

The first of a batch of slightly delayed story posts is up. More to come tomorrow. Now for sleep.

Space gangsters. That is all.

edit: Coyote I didn't forget about you, it has just been about 100 times busier than I thought I would be. Soon I swear.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Can they be programmed to function as replicating?

No, they can't - for construction reasons. The production of these robots is confined to the government-controlled Commune assemblers, because even the Commune doesn't like the idea that its citizens can become potential grey goo bombs.

Technically a Commune warship has an on-board assembler to "heal" those clouds who are wounded and lose a large fraction of their body material. That's about as close as you can get to capturing one, but a Commune ship has instructions for self-destruct if there's a threat the assembler will get captured by a foreign power.

Simon_Jester wrote:Utility fog is a somewhat different question, because it does pose a bio-equivalent-hazard in principle.

I'm not sure I'd want to mass-ship utility fog, which is dangerous indeed, to other nations. Aside from the obvious hazards, the fog is the key to Commune's means of production and weapon tech. It's zealously guarded from attempts to reverse-engineer.

Even getting the approval of the Supreme Soviet for supplying antiagathics to other civilizations was a mess.

Simon_Jester wrote:Of course, I'm sure you wouldn't start trying to destabilize the internal politics of one of the few nations in known space that isn't disturbed by your political system and dominated by rampaging capitalists or monarchists, right, Comrade Stas?

Quite so. I presume that since you and Ryan are friendly to me, I'll try to move my antiagathics offer through official channels. And of course, I wouldn't supply you ones with spying frequencies either; I don't need international incidents. The ones authorized for offerings are the first-generation medical equipment which is basically barebone medical robots. Programming for non-human races is present, but since not all aliens may join the Commune as immigrants due to their own cultural reasons, some alien species may not have a program ready for them. Which means they'll have to do without.

The supply is also rather limited, and I can only give so few each year. This is another reason why no capitalist society will ever get them from me, because in the Commune's eyes, they can't ration scarce items in a just fashion. And the nanorobots will be scarce.

Agent Sorchus wrote:edit: Coyote I didn't forget about you, it has just been about 100 times busier than I thought I would be. Soon I swear.

No problem, I figured such was the case.

Simon_Jester wrote:[Contemplates possibility of making a genetic modification to the hair follicles on the scalp, which are somatic cells, without making the same modification to the gametes]
[Makes note to suggest this to some nation better at genetics than we are]

The Altacar Empire's been doing much more radical stuff than this for ages. Come visit our shops . Special offers on Chamarran fur, and 50% off on gene mods that change something's colour based on your emotions .

Stas Bush wrote:BTW, folks, tell me what are the laws regarding nanobot mixtures in your respective nations. Is posession banned? Or only distribution? Or both?

And what then happens if a Commune cloud visits, say, the RIS? He can't "distribute" nanorobots but he's composed of them, technically in posession.

Depends on what they do in the Altacar Empire. Think of say modern chemicals: some are kept in the kitchen, others are handled by people wearing hazmat suits.
A Commune cloud would be a person under Altacaran law, but if he tried to use his nanites as a weapon he'd be charged with possession of said weapon. Reprogramming or somesuch would presumably follow.
The thing I'll say about the Altacar Empire is that looks can often be deceiving: most Altacarans want things to look a certain way, hence Francis Urquhart's oak desk... filled with high-tech holographics, computers, neural interfaces, and so on. But from the outside... just an old-fashioned oak desk.

Also, apologies for the delay (especially to PeZook), had some more real life fun .

...and now we learn just why Limpkin was mildly inconvenienced

Oh, man. Maibatsu! That's like... you so totally asked Siege around for names, dontcha?

EDIT:

Did Limpkin get hacked? Why's he fucking SinTek up? Eh?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Oh, man. Maibatsu! That's like... you so totally asked Siege around for names, dontcha?

He mentioned the name before, so I used it

Shroom Man 777 wrote:EDIT:

Did Limpkin get hacked? Why's he fucking SinTek up? Eh?

Yep, he got hacked

Stas Bush wrote:

Simon_Jester wrote:Utility fog is a somewhat different question, because it does pose a bio-equivalent-hazard in principle.

I'm not sure I'd want to mass-ship utility fog, which is dangerous indeed, to other nations. Aside from the obvious hazards, the fog is the key to Commune's means of production and weapon tech. It's zealously guarded from attempts to reverse-engineer.

Naturally.

If you don't mind, I am giving Umeria a certain amount of programmable nanite manufacturing capability, both because they're fairly advanced technologically and because they have presumably been in contact with the Commune for many decades; a certain amount of reverse engineering is inevitable. But it's nowhere near as widespread as in the Commune, and we don't have anything that can match the performance of modern utility fog.

Simon_Jester wrote:Of course, I'm sure you wouldn't start trying to destabilize the internal politics of one of the few nations in known space that isn't disturbed by your political system and dominated by rampaging capitalists or monarchists, right, Comrade Stas?

Quite so. I presume that since you and Ryan are friendly to me, I'll try to move my antiagathics offer through official channels. And of course, I wouldn't supply you ones with spying frequencies either; I don't need international incidents. The ones authorized for offerings are the first-generation medical equipment which is basically barebone medical robots. Programming for non-human races is present, but since not all aliens may join the Commune as immigrants due to their own cultural reasons, some alien species may not have a program ready for them. Which means they'll have to do without.

There is only one prominent alien species in Umerian space, the Phosako; they were in the atomic age before human contact and adapted fairly well when an alien ship appeared in orbit over their homeworld and started broadcasting "We come in peace. Take me to your leader." Fairly well.

There are... hmm, maybe two or three others, but they're more marginalized since they're on colony worlds and were in the Stone Age when we first encountered them, which has made assimilation difficult.

The supply is also rather limited, and I can only give so few each year. This is another reason why no capitalist society will ever get them from me, because in the Commune's eyes, they can't ration scarce items in a just fashion. And the nanorobots will be scarce.

From the Technocracy's standpoint, this is an excellent argument for attempts at revese engineering. The distribution problem is thorny; MiniWell may actually want to consult with other centrally planned economies (the Commune and the IUW) in search of models for a rationing scheme, because we don't have major rationing problems in the medical system very often.

Hmm. You picture this as having just happened quite recently, yes?

Quick fix:

The Central Alliance uses nanobots for medical and anti-agathic purposes. Any Central Alliance citizen should have a colony of nanites living in them helping to maintain general health and vitality, and repairing genetic or microcellular damage as much as possible.

The Central Alliance also uses nanomachines for building things, but rather than fabricate a whole, working machine instantly, they tend to use nanofabricators to build components of machines, which are then assembled afterwards.

Central Alliance nanotech is basically confined to specific uses and is not allowed to run free, nanobots have limited programming outside their assigned functions and automatic 'suicide modes' are included as standard by law.

[EDIT]: I almost forgot-- foreigners can bring in their nanotech in limited amounts but it has to conform to the above standards, ie, not be used aside for its stated purpose. Non-conforming nanotech devices are destroyed. The Commune "cloud citizen" is not something previously encountered and care would be taken not to destroy a portion of a "cloud person", but they would probably be asked to leave the Alliance if their nanites are found where they should not be. The concept of a cloud-person will probably also creep the hell out of the average Central Alliance citizen.

What is an anti-agathic? I guess it's for anti-aging? Or something? But what exactly is it, to be clear?

I'm guessing its some horrible nanomachine nightmare programmed to destroy Agatha Christie?

It repairs cellular/molecular-level damage and breakdowns in the body from aging. Faulty gene replication over time, degeneration of tissue, telomere breakdown, etc. All the things that, together, cause the "aging process".

You'd actually be in a better position to explain it all, being all med-tech trained, there, Shroomy.

I just never encountered that word prior to this game, that's all.

Nuersing, not med-tech. Big difference. For one, I think I need someone to hit me with more knowledge.

Man.

BRAGULANS!

PeZook wrote:Yep, he got hacked

I assume this happened after he got his mind-state restored? It would be pretty difficult to hack someone with executive-level implants without somebody noticing, but at least it'd be moderately doable for someone sufficiently determined and lavishly equipped. More doable, certainly, than hacking a mind-state in storage with the SinTEK (or indeed any other major) mainframe which is, basically, impossible to do without one or more CompInt guardians melting the attacker's brain.

Well, the way I envisioned it, SchromKorp slipped the instructions into the stored mind-state somehow. It doesn't really matter how it happened, of course. They could've used their own compint to do it, or just got lucky and recruited a high-level agent inside Health, Safety & Wellness, which gave Viktor von Schrom the idea to steal the (loaded) tenders from SinTek

After all, colonial investment contracts in the Space Age could easily run into equivalents of hundreds of billions of dollars. I'd guess corporations would be ready to go very far indeed to grab them, especially if they see the tender process as unfairly prejudiced towards SinTek (what with a Sinclair being president and all )

PeZook wrote:Well, the way I envisioned it, SchromKorp slipped the instructions into the stored mind-state somehow. It doesn't really matter how it happened, of course. They could've used their own compint to do it, or just got lucky and recruited a high-level agent inside Health, Safety & Wellness, which gave Viktor von Schrom the idea to steal the (loaded) tenders from SinTek

The latter is probably the only way to really pull this off without all kinds of alarm bells going off. You can't really hack a mainframe with a CompInt guardian and expect it to not notice you're there -- it's like trying to cut your way into someone's body without that person noticing: pretty damn unlikely. But sure, if they had an inside man then all bets are off.

After all, colonial investment contracts in the Space Age could easily run into equivalents of hundreds of billions of dollars. I'd guess corporations would be ready to go very far indeed to grab them, especially if they see the tender process as unfairly prejudiced towards SinTek (what with a Sinclair being president and all )

They'd better be ready to fend off CEID coming down on them like a ton of bricks then .

Well, at least you had the decency to put your meteoric-reentry commandoes in capsules.

Do you envision them falling straight down, or from a more normal reentry profile a la Apollo capsules?

As quickly as possible. Which would probably be 'straight down'. Since I am not going to go anywhere near quantifying the number of megatons involved in their hitting-the-planet however, the precise angle of their descent will I am afraid forever stay nebulous.

Of course, of course.

I'd expect some kind of retrorocketry; better to decelerate at 100g for a few seconds and spare yourself a few kilometers per second of impact velocity at the end of your trajectory, but the FORCE troopers are your babies.

Siege wrote: The latter is probably the only way to really pull this off without all kinds of alarm bells going off. You can't really hack a mainframe with a CompInt guardian and expect it to not notice you're there -- it's like trying to cut your way into someone's body without that person noticing: pretty damn unlikely. But sure, if they had an inside man then all bets are off.

Yeah, I too would try to avoid "ultra hacking" if at all possible. Most likely, all corps have their own intelligence divisions that deal with things like corporate espionage the old-fashioned way, especially since both SinTek and SchromKorp probably dwarf the XXI century US government in revenue.

They'd better be ready to fend off CEID coming down on them like a ton of bricks then .

Well, such is life in the world of ruthless corporate competition

That's part of the reason why Edgar (damn you, Shroom!) screwed Legion over, FYI. If he paid him, there'd be a money trail, so he figured it was better to not do anything at all - especially since it's quite unlikely Legion can have the resources to seriously hurt SchromKorp in revenge.

...at least Edgar thinks that's unlikely

Simon_Jester wrote:But it's nowhere near as widespread as in the Commune, and we don't have anything that can match the performance of modern utility fog.

Only weapons-grade fog is truly dangerous. Other types of fog, especially the most ordinary one used for homes, transport, furniture, etc. is pretty generic and not really that dangerous. Self-replication capabilities are very limited or nonexistent, nanites are not resilient to heat and other types of damage. In clouds, self-replication is limited, but accessible (as a life-saving mechanism which activates when the cloud's life is at stake, and as a way to form new nanobots during assimilation). In military-grade fog, the capability is often limited by programming alone.

Simon_Jester wrote:From the Technocracy's standpoint, this is an excellent argument for attempts at revese engineering. The distribution problem is thorny; MiniWell may actually want to consult with other centrally planned economies (the Commune and the IUW) in search of models for a rationing scheme, because we don't have major rationing problems in the medical system very often.

To be fair, I'm sure the small initial supply could be rationalized as "testing of medicine", much as it is in our times. And after that... the tech's fairly simple, so civilizations already using some limited NM-scale manufacturing (Umeria, Central Alliance) wouldn't have a problem with reverse-engineering what they got.

Simon_Jester wrote:Hmm. You picture this as having just happened quite recently, yes?

Yes. It was authorized by the Supreme Soviet after a lot of deliberations.

Coyote wrote:Any Central Alliance citizen should have a colony of nanites living in them helping to maintain general health and vitality, and repairing genetic or microcellular damage as much as possible.

Oh, cool. That means your folks are already technically immortal (or very long-living) and thus the Commune will always deal with the same people. Excellent.

Coyote wrote:The Commune "cloud citizen" is not something previously encountered and care would be taken not to destroy a portion of a "cloud person", but they would probably be asked to leave the Alliance if their nanites are found where they should not be. The concept of a cloud-person will probably also creep the hell out of the average Central Alliance citizen.

Why? It's the next logical step But yeah, cultural factors and all that. You can write a funny story about Cloud Eleven shocking the CA inspectors upon arrival (the ambassador to the Central Alliance I dispatched after your diplomats safely landed and established a mission).

There's a "Cloud Nine" in the Commune? Well, that certainly changes the message of this particular song...



Surely that can't be a coincidence? The video even has that weird futuristic vibe going .

And now Kara's motives are revealed.

Steve wrote:And now Kara's motives are revealed.

This time, it's personal

RogueIce wrote: This time, it's personal

...again

Anyway, does anyody else get the impression that Pendleton has a surprisingly high proportion of scumbags in its population?

Oh, wait. It's a slaveholding craphole