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PeZook wrote:*reads history of San Dorado*

Ugh...why wasn't the place shelled into oblivion somewhere along the way, exactly?

Blind luck, sheer distance and awesome pirates, of course . I'm guessing you guys on the Old Continent were so busy dicking over eachother that you didn't have much time to spend dealing with places on the other side of the seven seas.

And perhaps after Makaros the Great Powers got so embarassed they just pretended the place didn't really exist .

Also, I am so going to be undermining the place

And no-one will notice, considering how the place tends to undermine itself . If there's anything San Dorado excels at, it's continuing to exist and even flourish despite itself.

I have posted my history. It's not as in-depth as you guys', but hey - a mang's gotta do what a mang's gotta do!

Shovel some more coal, child!

SiegeTank wrote:Blind luck, sheer distance and awesome pirates, of course . I'm guessing you guys on the Old Continent were so busy dicking over eachother that you didn't have much time to spend dealing with places on the other side of the seven seas.

And perhaps after Makaros the Great Powers got so embarassed they just pretended the place didn't really exist .

Perhaps we thought it was better to do business than to fight.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Perhaps we thought it was better to do business than to fight.

Now there's a sentiment I can get behind!

Fingolfin, you should totally send those Byzantine Conquistadores to our South America analogue! Have Cortez kill Montezuma or some shit, atop a pyramid of doom!

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Fingolfin, you should totally send those Byzantine Conquistadores to our South America analogue! Have Cortez kill Montezuma or some shit, atop a pyramid of doom!

Lemme think it over how to deal with that. In theory, there was an explorer's guild during the Renaissance. Perhaps these guys came from that guild. But I think for the most part, they were mercenaries.

Well, certainly you had colonial aspirations, yes?

If I'm Britain, and you're France... we could have a French Polynesia full of human-sacrificing Mayztecan savages.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Well, certainly you had colonial aspirations, yes?

If I'm Britain, and you're France... we could have a French Polynesia full of human-sacrificing Mayztecan savages.

An Explorer's Guild back by the Emperor. Only some veterans signed on, while the rest stayed with the field army.

Awright, we need to finally think up the Major Industrial-Era Paradigm-Shifting War.

Bean mentioned that his country would sign up on the losing side (and man, it's large, so here's what I was thinking:

1868, Khitan begin to rise up against its PeZookian opressors. The Shadow Empire supports the rebels, hoping PeZookia will get engaged in a horrible colonial war which will drain her treasury.

By 1875, two thins happen: one, PeZookia finally gives up on Khitan. Two, Shadow involvement in the war is finally discovered. Sanctions and diplomatic tensions follow. Shadow Empire begins to radicalize (again) because they perceive the rest of the world to stand against them. Khitan, now a real country, pledges their support (mostly manpower and pirate ships). More diplomatic posturing follows.

Now, we can have a major war somewhere from 1875-1910. The power blocks would be Khitan+Shadow Empire, and Shroomania+Byzantium+PeZookia. We could throw in an NPC country into the mix, like Turkey who wants to get even with Byzantium or an arab state or something. The war would end in a bloody stalemate that leads to economic depression, Shadow empire's citizens think they are cheated out of their victory. Khitan industrializes in the meantime, and by 1920-1930s we have a second war against the now-fascist Shadow Empire, Khitan and the arab chewtoy-state

Except the second round leads to allied victory because Stas gets involved, the Empire turns socialist, Khitan has a regime change and the FUN is created some 20-30 years after.

There is the Abassad Caliphate which still threatens my eastern borders, though I am somewhat paying for the lease of some land in the east to extract oil.

Otherwise, if someone wants to roleplay them, by all means. Just so that you know, that I have forces in the East guarding against that possibility. So do discuss with me before you try anything.

Thus these A-rabs can be the new Terra Libertia of our own Old Continent! I mean, every area should get a third world craphole!

PeZook wrote:Except the second round leads to allied victory because Stas gets involved, the Empire turns socialist, Khitan has a regime change and the FUN is created some 20-30 years after.

I talked it over with Wilkens, and since we're both island nations we could probably put our support in via the Navy and stuff, but given the timeframe we really wouldn't be effected too much, aside from early submarines sinking merchant ships being sent to support our allies (which would be whatever side Byzantium is on); I don't think the technology level is really there to have the Axis (or whatever) actually have any serious threat to our homelands.

As a result of all this, and sooner than the FUN gets organized, the MESS is founded by me and Wilkens, with the Old Dominion (Lonestar), Tian Xia (Beowulf), Canissia (Coyote) and Byzantium (Fingolfin). We're generally formed in reaction to the fact that the Shadow Empire managed to start those two bloody conflicts and we generally resolve to smack down any other upstarts like that before they can trigger a global war amongst the major powers.

The rationale for joining is simple enough: me and Wilkens, as island nations, stayed a bit away from it and thus we're sort of in the US position. Canissia, which has plenty of historical cooperation with the Shinra Republic (myself) joins in, Tian Xia is I think another island nation and joins for similar reasons (perhaps Wilkens and Beowulf can work out a history of cooperation). The Old Dominion joins because they've got Shepistan on their border and are attracted to the whole mutual defense thing, giving them a shield of sorts. Byzantium, because of their history, is likewise attracted to our more proactive approach in dealing with problems, and also enjoys the shield concept.

That's my rough idea for how and why the MESS is formed, and why the people who found it did so. Others may or may not sign on later as they please, but we six are the Founding Members.

EDIT: "Smack down" really isn't the right way to say it. It'd be more like what we did last time, play the sort of "Global Cop" role (though with the larger world we may well pick and choose our battles). Basically stand in the way of someone getting to aggressive, even if we don't out and out bomb the shit out of belligerent states.

SiegeTank
If you're going to be doing the whole pirate thing, you'd almost certainly run afoul of me at some point. The Navy is very much my Senior Service and all (being an island nation) so we'd take a dim view to piracy. As in sending down ships and Marines (both my own, and if Canissia aids me as well), not paying you off.

Quick question, how many continents are we going to have?

I think Siege's nation has grown out of the whole piracy business and is now into ruthless corporatism.


MESS GUYS:

Are you sure you want to be a bunch of island nations? That's kind of... didn't we agree to sticking with major continents, land masses, and a few island chains? Maybe you guys could get a big land mass, or a couple of them, and be like USA + Canada + Australia.

It's rather odd that each of you get large (and safe) island nations, while the rest of us have to deal with landmasses (or being just a Shroomish Channel away from one).

Me, PeZook, Fingolfin, Stas and Shadow are already covering Europe. Maybe you guys can have an analogue to Australia and the Americas, and Africa?

A map full of landmasses that can used for maps - I already picked the mass to the right, though.

EDIT:

I intend to resize my "land mass" (the one to the right) into an island around the size of Britain, or maybe a bit bigger, and put it in the UK's position in relation to the Old Continent.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:MESS GUYS:

Are you sure you want to be a bunch of island nations? That's kind of... didn't we agree to sticking with major continents, land masses, and a few island chains? Maybe you guys could get a big land mass, or a couple of them, and be like USA + Canada + Australia.

It's rather odd that each of you get large (and safe) island nations, while the rest of us have to deal with landmasses (or being just a Shroomish Channel away from one).

Me, PeZook, Fingolfin, Stas and Shadow are already covering Europe. Maybe you guys can have an analogue to Australia and the Americas, and Africa?

Only me, Wilkens, and maybe Beowulf would be islands. Coyote is on a continent, Fingolfin is, and so is Lonestar.

Given our size and the fact you all have the Old Continent well in hand, sticking the three of us on a continent just means we're going to pretty well dominate it anyway.

While I don't have to worry (as much) about a land invasion, my main line of defense is going to be a Navy and Air Force, both of which are frigging expensive. And while there is the whole power projection thing, unless everybody has a handy coastline to the ocean it rather limits us with regards to securing airspace overflight rights and all that good stuff.

It's simply a different dynamic for us to play as and to suit our particular styles and the way we enjoy the game, rather than forcing us all to have a large land army to defend the homeland.

Ah...

Maybe a couple of MESS guys can share a continent/island, ala US and Canada, and then you can have a shitty Mexico down south. Then below that would be another continent, filled with Mayztecans and pyramids, who got their shit ruined by Byzantine conquistadores.

Byzantine Conquistadores.

Hey, does anyone want to be an America? Like... a former Shroomanian colony that kicked the Shroomcoats outta there and overshadowed its colonial master in the XXth century by becoming a superpower while the Great Powers declined?

I think the nations of the MESS would really fit the 20th century superpower thing.

EDIT:

I mean, we pretty much got SDN 2's Europe analog fleshed out with our Old Continent assholes. Time for you guys to cook up the 'New Continent'!

[Hell, maybe Beowulf can get China! Didn't he play a China back in the original SDN world? And Skim is going for a Japanistan, right?]

Shroom Man 777 wrote: I mean, we pretty much got SDN 2's Europe analog fleshed out with our Old Continent assholes. Time for you guys to cook up the 'New Continent'!

So we are just going with straight analogues of the Earth Continents? (Old Continents - Eruope/Asia, Frequesue - Africa, the New Continent - The Americans and Australia?)

Well... not really. But us Old Continent dudes are lazy shmucks, so we used real-life inspirations.

I hope the other guys come up with downright bizzare stuff

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Maybe a couple of MESS guys can share a continent/island, ala US and Canada, and then you can have a shitty Mexico down south. Then below that would be another continent, filled with Mayztecans and pyramids, who got their shit ruined by Byzantine conquistadores.

That could be the old remnants of the quasi-Egyptian/Roman style 'Qalquayyid Empire' I wrote up for my Ancient era. I pictured them as being "over the sea" from Canissian shores, the Canissia was the furthest reach of their once-mighty empire.

Yeah, let's aim for some originalty, too. We've been ripping off too much real history as it is, anyway

PeZook wrote:Yeah, let's aim for some originalty, too. We've been ripping off too much real history as it is, anyway

*Cough everything-Shroom*insert historical reference or figure here*

Well anyway we have a starting point, the Khitan is the east most shore of the Northern Continent.

Like a puzzel we can figure this out by working from the edges in. Who's east-most south? Who's west most North? Who's south most south? Who's north most north?

Countries with large pre-existing history need of course to be close togther and not on the bloody opposite side of the map from each other.

Been out of sync with you guys for...weeks? Catching up. Hopefully I can start posting my history.

Ok, got a basic version of Indhopal's history here. If anyone thinks of possible tie ins, please mention them and I'll likely write them in.

History of Indhopal

The lands of Indhopal lie on the continent of Frequesue. Indhopal has a wide variety of terrain types. Starting out at sea, a large number of islands and reefs lead to the lush coastline. Forests rise into the steep Fforde Mountains. The country continues on the other side with a large swath of plains land. The mighty Covington River cuts through the plains and the mountains to empty into an extensive delta system with attendant swamps.

Indhopal was originally colonized by tribes of hunter and gatherers who arrived via small boats. These tribes spread inland, but mainly remained near the coast. The extensive natural resources allowed the native cultures to achieve the greatest degree of sophistication seen by a culture that used the hunter-gatherer subsistence strategy. Later immigrants colonized the interior, whose tribes mainly subsisted by farming in small villages. In the plains, nomadic pastoralism was the rule of the day.

Outside influence came with the first Shroomanian colonies in thee 1600’s. Starting with trading posts, the new colonists quickly made their way inland, drawn by thee rich lands. Disease and war decimated most of the local tribes and many of the remaining people were forced to work on Shroomanian mushroom plantations. By the 1700’s the Shroomanian’s firmly controlled all the territory in Indhopal up to the mountains. In the 1800’s the colonial governor, using the local militias, cowed the plains tribes as well, though intermittent rebellion would remain a problem for decades.

During the colonial period, citizens from all over the old continent came to Indhopal, drawn by its rich lands. Descendants of such immigrants now make up some 40 percent of the populace. For many years, the colonists were fairly happy with the colonial government as the Shroomanian’s often took a hands off approach, letting the local land owners make most of the decisions.

By the early 1900’s though, many were clamoring for more independence from Shroomania, claiming that they were not putting enough investment into the nation and that the country should have true independence. Under pressure, Shroomania granted Indhopal some autonomy as a commonwealth. The new government, under the control of the Independence Party, quickly undertook a campaign to industrialize the nation. Most factories were placed in the large population centers on the coastal side of the mountains; the plains remained a backwater and the native cultures were still ruthlessly exploited.

Eventually, with the general collapse of colonial empires everywhere, Indhopal declared full independence from Shroomania saying that local powers should decide local affairs. This has remained a key tenant of Indhopal’s foreign policy. After full independence, the aptly named Independence Party continued its dominance of the Republic. They undertook many military operations of dubious morality to assert Indhopal’s influence in Frequesue.

When Coilerburg’s ruler decided to carve his own little empire, Indhopal spent a great deal of time, effort, and treasure to check him. Indhopal started by providing covert aid, but eventually Indhopal's air force was providing direct support, and when the coup ousted Coilerburg’s military Indhopal offered the new government assistance and recognition if they would stop the war. The governments have remained close ever since.

As a consequence of such operations, Indhopal's primary intelligence agency, The Inter-Services Intelligence Agency (ISIA) became very powerful. They have agents and lots in motion all over Frequesue and beyond. They also answer directly to the president, not the legislature. A far more obvious effect of Indhopal’s years of foreign adventurism was the rise of the Movement for Democratic Change party and its rise to power.

The Movement for Democratic Change was the key party which finally ousted the Independence Party from its near stranglehold on power. Its base was the dissatisfied Natives tired of years of exploitation and working class colonist's who were fed up after years of brush wars, corruption, and economic stagnation under the Independence party.

Under the Movement for Democratic Change, Indhopal revitalized its economy and invested heavily in social programs. The military budget was cut, along with official support for many foreign militias and other groups that had been aided by Indhopal in their fight against Coilerburg’s old dictator. The ISIA tried to pick up the slack, but regardless Frequesue entered a new period of widespread chaos.

Now days the ruling party has come to see the military as part of the solution to the problem of Frequesue’s instability, along with economic aid and diplomacy. They see it their duty to “help their Frequesueian brothers” rather than to become the dominant regional power like the Independence party. However, many of the current military interventions and activities by the ISIA look very similar to old way of doing things.

Alright, here's a rough frame:

History of the Kingdom of Serenity

Prehistoric History
An island near the Southern Hemisphere, there has been traces of transitional hominids inhabiting the island in small villages. However, by unknown reasons these people became extinct near 12,000 B.C.E, leaving the island free of human presence for more than ten thousand years.

Ji-Tze's Settlement and the Kingdom of Mangka

Fleeing from the <empire's> persecution, Ji-Tze and his band of 1000 followers arrive at the island in 312 B.C.E., mistaking it for the legendary "Northern Lands". After confirming that it is not their intended destination, they name the island "Mangka", which means "serenity" in the Kamalan dialect of the <empire>.

The <empire> becomes aware of Mangka in 310 B.C.E. and launches its first invasion in 308 B.C.E.. The fleet is totally crushed at the southern shores thanks to early warning and weather. Under persuasion of Ji-Tze, the surviving imperialist troops settle at Mangka. News of this battle as well as the new land of Mangka encourages more people from the <empire> to settle in the island.

The <empire> launches many attacks in the following years, with all failing due to various reasons. In 295 B.C.E., Ji-Tze, under support from the settlers, becomes the first king of the newly born Kingdom of Mangka. Relations between Mangka and the <empire> became much more peaceful after the new emperor ascended in 250 B.C.E.

Imperial Occupation and the 12 Rebellion Era
Such peace ended in 536 C.E., when the Kingdom of Mangka fell into serious civil war between supporters of different princes. To ensure victory, Prince Jing-Tang of the House of Shih seeked aid from the <empire>. General Leng of the Imperial forces saw this as a good opportunity to expand his own power, and after ending the civil war in Mangka, he massacred most of the royal family and forced Princess Luo-Yen to marry him, claiming himself the rightful heir of Mangka. Under his harsh rule, many people seeked refuge in the deep mountains and forests of Mangka.

In 536 C.E. Leng, using his influence, removed Emperor Ketagaran VIII from his throne and declared himself emperor. Starting the 800 year long Leng Dynasty.

Rebels, led by Malai Gumai (Gao Tianlai) were able to drive out the Leng forces in 853 C.E. and establish a provisional government. However, this did not last long as the <empire> sent in forces in 900 C.E. and re-established Mangka as an imperial province. The process of rebelling, provisional government, and being defeated by Empire was repeated for 12 times until near the end of the Leng Dynasty.

Unrest in the <empire> caused it to fall into civil war at 1307 C.E. Imperial troops stationing in Mangka were called back to support one of the factions. Fortunately for Mangka, the Imperial Civil War lasted for more than 50 years. With lack of imperial influence in Mangka, local imperial magistrates were eventually subsituted or overthrown by the Mangkans, and in 1342, Mangka declared itself independence once again.

Council of Nine

Independence was declared by the Council of Nine. The new Magistrates of the 9 Sectors of Mangka gathered at the capital, Wuhan, where they agreed to rule Mangka as one, with a "Supreme Leader" appointed on a 5 year basis as well as appointing their succeedors.

And I'll stop here for awhile.