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[quote="Knife"][/quote]

I agree in so far that we should make a distinction between fighters and non-fighters, however the group that doesn't fight should be very small and would be composed of our most intelligent persons. (their brains will be their most powerful weapons)
The maximum number of people belonging to this group should be 30.

The other group would include the majority of people, who have civillian duties in the camp, but are called to fight when the time is there.
This would include around 240 people.

The third group (another 30) would be those with military training who'd serve as scouts etc.

This way we'd be able to build up a functional community life and a relatively large army.

Weapons: bolt action rifles are reliable and excellent for combat at long range with their high-speed bullets but we might consider taking SMGs along for short range combat in this case.
The Mosin-Nagant, the 98k or the Springfield 1903 might all be good coices.

The tactics Knife proposes seem to be reasonalbe but we need to take care of some of the details. One of the most important question will be the armament of our allies
I think we should arm them with percussion muskets with rifled barrels:
they're inferior to our weapons so that we'd easily be capable of defeating our provincial forces even if they were attacking in superior numbers, and if the enemy captured some of the weapons he would probably not be able to reproduce the caps meaning that they are essentially useless to him.

weemadando wrote:

Coyote wrote: You know what? A couple of UAVs would be sweet....

I was thinking before, what would be the minimum amount of stuff we would have to bring back to establish a satellite in geosynchronous orbit for surveillance.

Then I realised haow fucking stupid that idea was and that a few solar powered drones with theoretically infinite endurace would be far better.

Such a craft would have to be fucking huge to both fly and carry and power a camera and data link system. A data link would be LOS with no satellites for it. We'd need a massive and extremely smooth runway. I think we can do without mixing a few thousand tons of concreate.

Assuming we can also bring and emplace some navigational beacons, an modified Predator that's has an autopilot to fly a search pattern might work. But it still needs a paved runway, and we'd need to all allot of equipment too it which would drastically cut into its range. Remote control isn't possibul nor is data linking because we don't have any satellites.

Really, any form of long range UAV would be extremely hard to operate let alone maintain. A small tactical UAV, mabye. But your not going to be looking over mountains nor searching all of middle earth.

hmmmm we could ally ourselves with the great eagles .This would give us some air mobility

As far as stragety wise I was thinking this. We place our base at the Lonely mountain and attempt to ally ourselves with the men and dwarves there. In a few months time they will be begin shipping to the Shire if they haven't already, a small group, focussed primarly on diplomacy and pretending to be men of Dale, tag along with them. We should reach the shire with no problems see as how we are traveling with a large number of dwarves. Once at the shire we wait until the party and Bilbo gives Frodo the Ring then we talk to Gandalf and Frodo and convince them to help us. We know some one has been shipping weed to Sarumen from the South Farthing so we have Frodo send his friends to investegate. Everyone leaves the Shire and travels to Bree, most of them travel back to the Lonely Mountain, but a couple stay behind. These people will wait until Frodo's friends report to them on Sarumen's shipments and when that happens this group will then spike the shipments with a lethal poison, hopefully this will take care of Sarumen.

On the way back to the Lonely Mountian the group stops by Rhosgobel and recruits Radagast so we can use his spy and communication's network, he can also send messages to the eagle's should we desire air power.

I'm a little vague upon what to do next but I was thinking instigating massive troop build up in the north and in Gondor followed by a March towards Mordor, this should occuppy Sauron's attention nicely as a small unit slips OVER the mountians and heads to Mount Doom. No one would ever suspect us of going over the mountian's either with the aid of a couple of giant eagles or modern climbing gear. We won and never had to fight a single battle, what do you think?

Do I get an IMI .357 Magnum and Knight Armory Corp. SR-25K battle rifle?

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Do I get an IMI .357 Magnum and Knight Armory Corp. SR-25K battle rifle?

No you get a FN-FAL and an M9 like everyone else.

Cpt_Frank wrote:

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Do I get an IMI .357 Magnum and Knight Armory Corp. SR-25K battle rifle?

No you get a FN-FAL and an M9 like everyone else.

Ah, well... I suppose I'll take what I can get. Still, if it had to be an FN longarm, why not the P90?

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:

Cpt_Frank wrote:

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Do I get an IMI .357 Magnum and Knight Armory Corp. SR-25K battle rifle?

No you get a FN-FAL and an M9 like everyone else.

Ah, well... I suppose I'll take what I can get. Still, if it had to be an FN longarm, why not the P90?

P90 sucks for the intended purpose, and there isn't any ammo for it.

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:

Cpt_Frank wrote:

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Do I get an IMI .357 Magnum and Knight Armory Corp. SR-25K battle rifle?

No you get a FN-FAL and an M9 like everyone else.

Ah, well... I suppose I'll take what I can get. Still, if it had to be an FN longarm, why not the P90?

Because the P90 is a SMG, because the P90 has jamming and feed issues, because the P90 is overhyped wank, and because you need to be able to use the ammunition the rest of us do, and engage the enemy at the right ranges.

I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

I did say something about rockets earlier in the thread.
They would be a good option for us, for rockets the tech needed is fairly low....we could even improvise something like the WW2 Katyusha (sp?) weapon used in the eastern war.....a massed bank of rockets used in anti-infantry capacity....

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

Rockets could work, but mortars would probably be the simpler alternative.

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

I did say something about rockets earlier in the thread.
They would be a good option for us, for rockets the tech needed is fairly low....we could even improvise something like the WW2 Katyusha (sp?) weapon used in the eastern war.....a massed bank of rockets used in anti-infantry capacity....

Remember, though, that Gandalf used fireworks as his cover in the Shire. Even with magic used to subtly enhance the effects, the simple fact is that he had to have been using rockets for the display. Apparently the non-use of gunpowder, particularly rocket artillery, in an offensive capacity in Middle Earth is purely a cultural thing. It may simply have never crossed anyone's mind. And the orcs seem to have employed gunpowder for blasting in one of their siege operations.

In summary: Saruman and others would just get funny ideas. Using familiar amusement devices to deadly offensive effect might tempt them to follow suit in retaliation. Rockets are too close to home.

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:

Cpt_Frank wrote:

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Do I get an IMI .357 Magnum and Knight Armory Corp. SR-25K battle rifle?

No you get a FN-FAL and an M9 like everyone else.

Ah, well... I suppose I'll take what I can get. Still, if it had to be an FN longarm, why not the P90?

Because it sucks shit in every respect for what we need weapons for and for anything, as has already been covered about 20 pages ago. The P90 is the most over hyped firearm in the last 10 years. No one ever seems to notice that only three nations bought it and one of those is already trashing it in favor of carbine G-36's.

Patrick Ogaard wrote:

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

I did say something about rockets earlier in the thread.
They would be a good option for us, for rockets the tech needed is fairly low....we could even improvise something like the WW2 Katyusha (sp?) weapon used in the eastern war.....a massed bank of rockets used in anti-infantry capacity....

Remember, though, that Gandalf used fireworks as his cover in the Shire. Even with magic used to subtly enhance the effects, the simple fact is that he had to have been using rockets for the display. Apparently the non-use of gunpowder, particularly rocket artillery, in an offensive capacity in Middle Earth is purely a cultural thing. It may simply have never crossed anyone's mind. And the orcs seem to have employed gunpowder for blasting in one of their siege operations.

In summary: Saruman and others would just get funny ideas. Using familiar amusement devices to deadly offensive effect might tempt them to follow suit in retaliation. Rockets are too close to home.

I'd forgotten about that....though it would make our life simpler if we do want to arm up a "native" army......
As there are obviously those locally who have the skills to produce gun powder we could concievably arm them much more easily with muskets and simple rocket artillery if the need arose....

Patrick Ogaard wrote:

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

I did say something about rockets earlier in the thread.
They would be a good option for us, for rockets the tech needed is fairly low....we could even improvise something like the WW2 Katyusha (sp?) weapon used in the eastern war.....a massed bank of rockets used in anti-infantry capacity....

Remember, though, that Gandalf used fireworks as his cover in the Shire. Even with magic used to subtly enhance the effects, the simple fact is that he had to have been using rockets for the display. Apparently the non-use of gunpowder, particularly rocket artillery, in an offensive capacity in Middle Earth is purely a cultural thing. It may simply have never crossed anyone's mind. And the orcs seem to have employed gunpowder for blasting in one of their siege operations.

In summary: Saruman and others would just get funny ideas. Using familiar amusement devices to deadly offensive effect might tempt them to follow suit in retaliation. Rockets are too close to home.

Its more likely for coast reasons, gun powered is difficult and expensive to make at that tech level. And it's not very effective either, especially in the open.

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

I did say something about rockets earlier in the thread.
They would be a good option for us, for rockets the tech needed is fairly low....we could even improvise something like the WW2 Katyusha (sp?) weapon used in the eastern war.....a massed bank of rockets used in anti-infantry capacity....

Gandalf already has fireworks, so we could possibly modify existing rockets in Middle Earth. I'm not sure where he gets them though.

Durandal wrote:

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

I did say something about rockets earlier in the thread.
They would be a good option for us, for rockets the tech needed is fairly low....we could even improvise something like the WW2 Katyusha (sp?) weapon used in the eastern war.....a massed bank of rockets used in anti-infantry capacity....

Gandalf already has fireworks, so we could possibly modify existing rockets in Middle Earth. I'm not sure where he gets them though.

I'm not sure he's the only one....IIRC he's reffered to as the one with the "best" fireworks...which would imply there are others to compare them with.....

If they try using Gunpowder rockets, it'll likely blow up in their faces. And remember that I said that these would probably be more useful as a replacement for a siege cannon. The basic idea would a be engine of short burn but very high thrust propelling a solid steel block into the wall. Basically be somewhat similar to LOSAT, but unguided. Mortars would probably still be preferable for anti-infantry work.

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

But rockets won't effectively smashed down walls and will require huge amounts of propellant. Mortars work better for soft and smei hard targets like wall tops.

And if we need to breach somthing we need a cannon firing a big solid ball or crude shaped charge.

Durandal wrote:

Keevan_Colton wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

I did say something about rockets earlier in the thread.
They would be a good option for us, for rockets the tech needed is fairly low....we could even improvise something like the WW2 Katyusha (sp?) weapon used in the eastern war.....a massed bank of rockets used in anti-infantry capacity....

Gandalf already has fireworks, so we could possibly modify existing rockets in Middle Earth. I'm not sure where he gets them though.

He makes them himself, that's what the G on them stand's for: Gandalf Brand Fire Works. Gandalf is the foremost firework manufacturer on Middle Earth, how did you think he made his vast fortune

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I occurs to me that it might be better to use rockets instead of siege cannons if we find it necessary to batter down a fortification. With modern chemistry knowledge, we can make a better rocket than one powered by gunpowder, and it would avoid the problems of figuring out how to move a massive seige cannon.

But rockets won't effectively smashed down walls and will require huge amounts of propellant. Mortars work better for soft and smei hard targets like wall tops.

And if we need to breach somthing we need a cannon firing a big solid ball or crude shaped charge.

Note that that is listed in pounds of thrust. An assembled M2500T motor weighs 18 lbs. Using it to launch a 100 lb piece of steel to fairly high velocities shouldn't be too hard, and would most definitely do a number on walls. These types of engines are regularly used to launch fairly heavy rockets to supersonic speeds. Which is easier, moving around a couple dozen 100 lb rockets, or moving around a multi-ton siege cannon?

Now admittedly, we wouldn't likely be able to bring a lot of these motors with us, and wouldn't likely be able to make as powerful of ones. Still, it would be alot easier than trying to make a cannon of the requisite size and strength, that would still be movable.

Stupid transparent gifs...
http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/custom ... M2500.html

that's the location that I got the GIF from...

As far as the Fellowhip goes, I feel that it is imperative that we control the Ring. We cannot be certain that the Fellowship will succeed on their own, and I'm not going to go on faith.
We are the best guardians of the Ring in all of Middle Earth. We can attempt to destroy it without assaulting Mt. Doom, by using thermite or other destructive laboratory methods. If that fails (which is possible, however unlikely), we can encase it in a steel block. As far as the steel block goes, we have two options: a) put it in a 200 lb block with handles that is portable to a team of two, so we can take it where we wish, but still have it secure or b) put in a 1 ton block, so it stays in our base no matter what.
In a steel block, the Nazghul won't be able to see it because nobody will be wearing it. In the unlikely event that Sauron's forces do capture it, they will be hard-pressed to remove the Ring. Even our forces, if corrupted, will take long enough with trying to remove the Ring that they would be apprehended by those of us still in their right minds.

On top of this, securing the Ring will not be difficult. We can send a team to the Shire within the first few years, where they will not face resistance in taking the Ring from either Bilbo or Frodo (depending on when we go). If the Hobbits resist, we will have no trouble dispatching them.

Despite any political problems this may cause with the locals, I feel it is paramount. It is unwise to leave the Ring with the Fellowship; the Fellowship is smaller and much less powerful than we are. We cannot simply assume that Frodo is more virtuous than we or some stupid shit like that. The Ring is potentially a dangerous weapon, and we must keep it under close guard, if we cannot destroy it outright.

Baggins will resist, We must handle this well otherwise the Political Snauff will be termendious


Best method is to contact Gandaulf as soon as possible and convice him to get it from Baggins, Let Frodo Come along fine, But that sucker is gonna be in a 200 Pound Block either way