StarDestroyer.Net BBS

They did build their own nuclear sub, albeit with a Shroomanian nuclear reactor.

Actually, I might be willing to lend a hand in the consultations....

PeZook wrote:Hah! This is why we have monstrous 800mm torpedo tubes: we can use a two-stage torpedo!

Think about it: mount the Shkval on a classic, heavy torpedo, which will deliver it to within the 13km engagement envelope. The sub can then GTF out of dodge, dive as deep as possible and start praying. The torpedo runs its course, rises to lower depth and fires off the Shkval for a terminal 200 knot run towards the CVBG with a 20kt gift.

All we need to do is design the sub around the concept of it using nuclear weapons by default,make it small, lean and with two titanium pressure hulls. Since what we want to do is keep MESS CVNs away, it doesn't even need to be fast.

Then tie them to directed nuclear sea mines embedded in the bottom, massive AShM spam, spaceborne nukes and huge bomber swarms.

Aside from the issue of going nuclear first (and the cost of maintaining a constant rotation of nuclear arms in a world where commercial pwoer demands are already gonna suck up resources and increase the cost of obtaining material) there is this:

Your range, even with the 2 stage design (40km low speed 1st stage, 13km Shikval 2nd stage) is that you still have to get within 53km of the carrier. That means you somehow have to penetrate both the Submarine screen and the Destroyer/Cruiser screen [screen ships would be around 10km or so out but in the hour or so it would take the low speed and high speed stage to reach the carrier its gonna travel 50km or so].

So I don't know about you but I wouldn't like your odds of beating the Submarine, Cruiser/Destroyer, and ASW helo/S-3 screen. Especially when if you launch and fail to acheive a hit its all but garunteed that the 72 or so ASROCs (with Mk50 or 54, haven't decided) torps onboard will be hunting and killing your sub. Now maybe you could launch quiet but the slower and quieter your first stage runs the easier it is for the CVBG to put distance between itself and your launch point.

Mk50. It's techinically better, though more expensive.

Beowulf wrote:Mk50. It's techinically better, though more expensive.

The cost part is why I was thinking about going with the Mk 54 though maybe for the non-critical export version.

CmdrWilkens wrote:Which is understandable, they are trying for a 1st World level operaitonal sub...but none of their shipyards has past experience with that kind of shopbuilding.

San Dorado actually built the Kraken class SSNs somewhere in the early eighties. Two of those ships serve in my navy. So we do have a modicum of experience designing hunter-killer submarines. And then of course there's the FTO's Vigilant, which may not be as sleek and deadly but is still a perfectly capable modern nuclear submarine.

Obviously it's still going to cost us, but it's not as bad as it could've been (I don't want to think about how hilariously expensive that class of two SSNs must've been... Luckily that was long ago or, OOC-wise, way back in the happy days of the point system ).

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:They did build their own nuclear sub, albeit with a Shroomanian nuclear reactor.

Indeed. And the new boat will be fitted with a new reactor of our own design. Yay for nuclear independence!

Eh, Shroomania can lend a hand in consultations as well.

We can call it the Joint Lichenshroom Unterboot Byzantine Enhancement program. The LUBE!

Well, technically, only you and Shroom operate torps that large.

Aw yeah!

PEZOOK, we should totally design a next-generation attack sub that's totally NOT merely enhanced Seawolves of Akulas or whatever, since those are already dated designs. The future, mang! We've already got such awesome sub cooperations and stuff.

Hell, we can even work together with the Byzantines. So we can have a joint sub-program called LUBE.

EDIT:

Barracuda is an awesome name for a submarine.

Shroom Man 777 wrote: PEZOOK, we should totally design a next-generation attack sub that's totally NOT merely enhanced Seawolves of Akulas or whatever, since those are already dated designs. The future, mang! We've already got such awesome sub cooperations and stuff.

Totally! I need a next-generation coastal SSK and a new SSN would be nice (I wanted to buy Akula-IIs, but it may be worth exploring an SSN designed from the ground up)

Shroom Man 777 wrote: Hell, we can even work together with the Byzantines. So we can have a joint sub-program called LUBE.

Okay, but I will quietly assign my own internal designation

Shroom Man 777 wrote: EDIT:
Barracuda is an awesome name for a submarine.

Yep. This is why we give all our subs names of natural predators or otherwise dangerous critters with a bad attitude. The Orzel, Rosomak, Wilk, Lew, Dzik, Sowa...cool tradition

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Eh, Shroomania can lend a hand in consultations as well.

We can call it the Joint Lichenshroom Unterboot Byzantine Enhancement program. The LUBE!

Well, technically, only you and Shroom operate torps that large.

Aw yeah!

PEZOOK, we should totally design a next-generation attack sub that's totally NOT merely enhanced Seawolves of Akulas or whatever, since those are already dated designs. The future, mang! We've already got such awesome sub cooperations and stuff.

Hell, we can even work together with the Byzantines. So we can have a joint sub-program called LUBE.

EDIT:

Barracuda is an awesome name for a submarine.

Well, we are working on a next generation submarine that will start construction come 2020. Should exceed the Seawolf in performance by a big notch. I don't mind extra money to fund the development in exchange for sharing know how and technology.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:So, it's getting to be that time again: Military acquisitions for the Duchy of Langley!

Planned Air Wing for Future Langley Navy Aircraft Carrier
*snip already taken care of stuff*
8 x A-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing A-6Es in storage; new-build preferable]
4 x KA-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing KA-6Ds in storage; new-build preferable]
8 x S-3C Viking [need to purchase]
4 x EA-6C Prowler [need to purchase]
4 x ES-3C Shadow [need to purchase]
4 x E-2D Hawkeye [need to purchase]
8 x MH-60R Seahawk [need to purchase]
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk [need to purchase]

I can hook you up with all that stuff. Not surprising considering I'm pretty sure you just used my air wing makeup anyway.

I'm already building stuff (or would be) since I'll be bringing a sixth carrier online in, um, whatever the sixth game year is (or is it seven? Hm...) so I could probably get you some of it fairly quickly actually. Whether 'used' (and thus cheaper) or new.

Wait, is it already the sixth game year? I've lost track.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Well, we are working on a next generation submarine that will start construction come 2020. Should exceed the Seawolf in performance by a big notch. I don't mind extra money to fund the development in exchange for sharing know how and technology.

We've got our own know-hows also, so we can totally work together. We can combine our powers so we can have the best boats with the BIGGEST, BADDEST, and MOST LUBRICATED torpedoes EVAR!

(So we can co-op to get a submarine ten times as badass as those FTO guys, show them what's what. )

EDIT:

Ah, FASTA gossip!

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:So, it's getting to be that time again: Military acquisitions for the Duchy of Langley!

Planned Air Wing for Future Langley Navy Aircraft Carrier
24 x A-7L Corsair II [can produce myself]
4 x KA-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing KA-6Ds in storage; new-build preferable]
8 x S-3C Viking [need to purchase]
4 x EA-6C Prowler [need to purchase]
4 x ES-3C Shadow [need to purchase]
4 x E-2D Hawkeye [need to purchase]

The IRT is offering for export the following package:

Sea Gripen (rather more capable than your SLUFs) and the IRT Super Viking line of multimission aircraft, including the:
S3F-3 ASW Viking
S3F-4W AEW Viking
S3F-3E EW Viking
S3F-3Q ESM Viking
S3F-3G Tanker Viking

The Viking line has the advantage of commonality of airframe and parts for reduced maintenance and procurement costs.

8 x MH-60R Seahawk [need to purchase]
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk [need to purchase]

Other Stuff I Need
60 x UH-60M Black Hawk
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk[/quote]
Available to sell at highly competitive rates

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:So, it's getting to be that time again: Military acquisitions for the Duchy of Langley!

Planned Air Wing for Future Langley Navy Aircraft Carrier
8 x S-3C Viking [need to purchase]
4 x EA-6C Prowler [need to purchase]
4 x ES-3C Shadow [need to purchase]
4 x E-2D Hawkeye [need to purchase]
8 x MH-60R Seahawk [need to purchase]
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk [need to purchase]

Other Stuff I Need
60 x UH-60M Black Hawk
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk

Obviously Wilkonia is already selling you the Helos from the last installment so upping the order to include some extra -60s would be simplicty itself.

As for the Vikings go with Shinra since they supply our needs as well and any included avionics would thus have greater commonality with your existing purchases from MESS member states.

CmdrWilkens wrote:As for the Vikings go with Shinra since they supply our needs as well and any included avionics would thus have greater commonality with your existing purchases from MESS member states.

What, no, BUY TONKIN. Our stuff interoperates with damn near everyone anyways

phongn wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:So, it's getting to be that time again: Military acquisitions for the Duchy of Langley!

Planned Air Wing for Future Langley Navy Aircraft Carrier
24 x A-7L Corsair II [can produce myself]
4 x KA-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing KA-6Ds in storage; new-build preferable]
8 x S-3C Viking [need to purchase]
4 x EA-6C Prowler [need to purchase]
4 x ES-3C Shadow [need to purchase]
4 x E-2D Hawkeye [need to purchase]

The IRT is offering for export the following package:

Sea Gripen (rather more capable than your SLUFs)

The A-7L is based off the Tian Xia A-7G, which is a significant upgrade, including the capability of carrying AIM-120s in conformal hardpoints, as well as a AESA radar for both ground and air search capability. It also can carry significantly greater bombloads (24x mk82 vs 8x mk 82), without any impact on it's self protection capability. These ain't your grandpappy's SLUFFs.

the IRT Super Viking line of multimission aircraft, including the:
S3F-3 ASW Viking
S3F-4W AEW Viking
S3F-3E EW Viking
S3F-3Q ESM Viking
S3F-3G Tanker Viking

The Viking line has the advantage of commonality of airframe and parts for reduced maintenance and procurement costs.

Or he can be one of the launch customers for the C-46 Common Support Aircraft, which does all of the above, as well as Carrier Onboard Delivery, in various variants.

8 x MH-60R Seahawk [need to purchase]
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk [need to purchase]

Other Stuff I Need
60 x UH-60M Black Hawk
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk

Available to sell at highly competitive rates

Meh, I'll hand that off to Wilkens.

phongn wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:As for the Vikings go with Shinra since they supply our needs as well and any included avionics would thus have greater commonality with your existing purchases from MESS member states.

What, no, BUY TONKIN. Our stuff interoperates with damn near everyone anyways

Damn near...meaning not with MESS equipment

RogueIce wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:So, it's getting to be that time again: Military acquisitions for the Duchy of Langley!

Planned Air Wing for Future Langley Navy Aircraft Carrier
*snip already taken care of stuff*
8 x A-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing A-6Es in storage; new-build preferable]
4 x KA-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing KA-6Ds in storage; new-build preferable]
8 x S-3C Viking [need to purchase]
4 x EA-6C Prowler [need to purchase]
4 x ES-3C Shadow [need to purchase]
4 x E-2D Hawkeye [need to purchase]
8 x MH-60R Seahawk [need to purchase]
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk [need to purchase]

I can hook you up with all that stuff. Not surprising considering I'm pretty sure you just used my air wing makeup anyway.

I'm already building stuff (or would be) since I'll be bringing a sixth carrier online in, um, whatever the sixth game year is (or is it seven? Hm...) so I could probably get you some of it fairly quickly actually. Whether 'used' (and thus cheaper) or new.

Wait, is it already the sixth game year? I've lost track.

Well, I go with what works.

Wilkens is going to hook me up with those MH-60s, so that takes care of those. That leaves the Intruders, Prowlers, Vikings, Shadows, and Hawkeyes. Concerning these planes, how much cheaper would used examples be compared to new builds?

As for the game year, if 2008 is year zero, then we're in year five; year six would be 2014, which starts on 14 February RL time.

CmdrWilkens wrote:Obviously Wilkonia is already selling you the Helos from the last installment so upping the order to include some extra -60s would be simplicty itself.

As for the Vikings go with Shinra since they supply our needs as well and any included avionics would thus have greater commonality with your existing purchases from MESS member states.

So, that'll be...76 additional helos I'll have to tack onto my previous order. How much more will I have to pay, then?

As for the Vikings and Shadows, I'm already going with RogueIce, though I'd like to see what Beowulf has to say about this Common Support Aircraft first.

Beowulf wrote:

phongn wrote:the IRT Super Viking line of multimission aircraft, including the:
S3F-3 ASW Viking
S3F-4W AEW Viking
S3F-3E EW Viking
S3F-3Q ESM Viking
S3F-3G Tanker Viking

The Viking line has the advantage of commonality of airframe and parts for reduced maintenance and procurement costs.

Or he can be one of the launch customers for the C-46 Common Support Aircraft, which does all of the above, as well as Carrier Onboard Delivery, in various variants.

I'd like some details on the C-46 first before I can consider buying it.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:Obviously Wilkonia is already selling you the Helos from the last installment so upping the order to include some extra -60s would be simplicty itself.

As for the Vikings go with Shinra since they supply our needs as well and any included avionics would thus have greater commonality with your existing purchases from MESS member states.

So, that'll be...76 additional helos I'll have to tack onto my previous order. How much more will I have to pay, then?

As for the Vikings and Shadows, I'm already going with RogueIce, though I'd like to see what Beowulf has to say about this Common Support Aircraft first.

I'd have to double check but since we'd be upping the order we would be looking at a lower unit cost just a bit. I'm pretty certain they were $5.5mil-$5.75mil a piece so call it $5.5mil each on this order extension. Payble 50/50 at the start and completion of the contract. The units will be added in to the original delivery totals (which IIRC run for the next 2-3 years) except they woudl add 1 additional year at the tail end.

It's kinda unbelievable, but none of us science junkies actually bothered to compute physical statistics on Nova Terra, to include what orbital velocity and such are. So, here it is:

Nova Terra:
Circumference: ~24200 km
Radius: ~3850 km (much less than earth)
gravity: 9.02 m/s^2
mass: 2e24 kg (1/3 earth)

GEO: 42000 km (similar to earth)

delta-V required for LEO: 8 km/s

I'll have more details on the C-46 CSA tomorrow (sorry, gotta sleep).

Zor wrote: Materials were salvaged and resources redirected and stopgap measures were being put into effect while Muballi had also used his accumulated plunder to buy machine tools from various firms (mostly Japanistani) via airlift, although it would take a long time to make a full restoration.

Um, Zor? No. No damn way that after the utter pasting Muballi just got he's going to be able to afford some massive restoration project, let alone acquiring modern machine tools (he can have century-old stuff, sure, but that's it, and they don't grow on trees so they'd be pricey) and anti-air weaponry.

He just had over a hundred modern fighters plus off-shore naval vessels pound his logistics and industrial capacity into dirt. Any plunder he kept in his personal abode that survived has to be dug out of the rubble.. His coal reserves are depleted, a massive chunk of his supplies are lost for good, his army's logistics are ruined, and most importantly, his army's morale has taken a heavy hit. He's going to be lucky if enemy tribes and Jihadis don't completely overrun his center of power and extinguish his little "new Hadhramara".

Steve wrote:He just had over a hundred modern fighters plus off-shore naval vessels pound his logistics and industrial capacity into dirt. Any plunder he kept in his personal abode that survived has to be dug out of the rubble.. His coal reserves are depleted, a massive chunk of his supplies are lost for good, his army's logistics are ruined, and most importantly, his army's morale has taken a heavy hit. He's going to be lucky if enemy tribes and Jihadis don't completely overrun his center of power and extinguish his little "new Hadhramara".

*whistles as Jihadis take their brutal revenge, courtesy of the Sultan and the IRT*

You know, we will have to eventually do something about the Caliph and his little war. I don't particularly enjoy the thought of a well-armed Jihadi state arising in Velaria. And neither does Japanistan, most likely.

PeZook wrote:You know, we will have to eventually do something about the Caliph and his little war. I don't particularly enjoy the thought of a well-armed Jihadi state arising in Velaria. And neither does Japanistan, most likely.

Japanistan's interests are on the other side of the continent. OTOH, Tonkin's position has remained nebulous and the MESS may have its own concerns. Zoria's opinion probably need not be stated.

PeZook wrote:You know, we will have to eventually do something about the Caliph and his little war. I don't particularly enjoy the thought of a well-armed Jihadi state arising in Velaria. And neither does Japanistan, most likely.

The Caliph will keep them on a tight leash, as I would as Byzantine Emperor on the Caliph himself.

In any case, it's not liek this has never happened with SDN.Net World. The Diocese of Terra Libertia is pretty much the template for the new nation.

Zor, I want to ask you about your supposed peace overtures with various Malips. On what basis, on what terms, is Zoria going to negotiate with them?

I presume your logic is that between those handful of powerful traditional influences not yet killed in internecine struggle and the slackening of fighting against Zoria directly due to the distraction of Muballi, a number of Malip villages are willing to engage in talks with Zorian officials or forge agreements with Zoria. But what is the ultimate goal for them? What concessions will Zoria grant in exchange for Malip communities to cease their support for the Jihad? Will it agree to withdraw from some areas of the Basin? To cease the defoilation it started engaging in about two game years ago? How high a price is Zoria willing to pay for peace?

After all, if Zoria responds with an insistance of maintaining their status quo and only offers to "protect" them and stop treating them like enemies, it might and probably would cause some to believe it's better to fight, especially with the recent Jihadi victory over Muballi and the promise it brings of a renewed effort in the River Basin.

Also, are you and Fin ever going to start the proposed peace talks mediated by Byzantium?

PeZook wrote:I don't particularly enjoy the thought of a well-armed Jihadi state arising in Velaria.

Then nuke the bastards.