StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Just a tought I had. See if this makes sense:

The North Attacks South Korea. American and South Korean infantry take heavy losses and get pushed back despite the border defenses. The main issues being not enough armoured support as everything is in Hell and suprise at the North's actions. The G15, with the US in particular are irritated in the extreme.
A nuke is launched and is set off at extreme high altitude above Pyongyang. This is followed by the message that the next launches will be in 12 hours, but these will be detonated at standard airburst altitude or will be ground bursts. North Korea has those 12 hours to withdraw/surrender. Any other action will result in immidiate launch.
Meanwhile Myamar is told to pay attention.

Alternatively China is requested to sent an army group across the border as a buildup is spotted.

Would this be a realistic scenario?

The red tide thing is possibly the most damaging attack inflicted on Earth so far. Unless I'm mistaken the world's fisheries are now pretty much destroyed, and that's going to cause big problems.

Baughn wrote:Well, let's see..

- Heaven hasn't let any humans in for the last millennium or so.
- Even if they had, undead can't survive on earth.

Yes, it's a bluff. What surprises me a little is that the unfortunate Kim is falling for it.

Michael has apparently seen Kim Il Sung recently, as he commented on his appearance. So I wouldn't be so sure he hasn't diverted him to Heaven and hidden him away after he died, just like he did with those musicians in his club.

phongn wrote:

Stuart wrote:"So? When did that make any difference?" Gabriel-Lan reflected that Kim Il-Sung actually looked a lot better than his son did. Given their present states, Kim Il-Sung could actually be mistaken for Kim Jong-Il's son rather than his father. "And, anyway, you of all people should know that he is dead. By the way, he wants an explanation as to why you puffed him in the face with that cyanide spray. If you are unprepared to take action, perhaps we should allow him to return and demand that explanation. After all, he is the "Eternal President" of this benighted country. Perhaps he should take up the reins again."

Sounds like Gabriel is bluffing here: Kim Il-Sung doesn't seem to be the sort of man that Heaven wants (or Michael).

From Gabriel's internal monologues, it seems clear that he's, at least, passingly acquainted with Kim Il-Sung. So if he isn't in Heaven being held as something to keep Kim Jong-Il working for them, then the angels may have him stashed away somewhere in Hell . . . or at least, know where to fetch him.

EdBecerra wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:That's ten not nine... time to read.

*Edit
So we get Bowel 2, Michael is doing his drug deals, and Lil-Kim freaks out about the threat of daddy coming back to Earth. As well he should.

Yeah - but that little cart worries me. A nice electric cart, and they just happen to think of it?

I expect that cart has either a camera, a bomb, or both.

Ed.

What about a beacon so humans can get a portal into heaven ?

bilateralrope wrote:What about a beacon so humans can get a portal into heaven ?

I don't think they can do that yet. They still need sensitives to open portals.

Neat idea, but angels can detect E&M just fine. And I can't think of any alternatives.

What about a beacon so humans can get a portal into heaven ?

This was my thought.

As for the politics, it seems that now Michael is stalling for time and confusion. If he can start two wars in asia, one of them in China's backyard, he can throw the occupation of Hell into chaos. Thailand and South Korea will both be screaming for their armies to be brought home, and China might start pulling people out as well. Put a few nukes into the mix and world-wide-rationing of fuel and other goods turns into just plain 'nobody has any gas'.

All of which gives Michael room to breathe and plan his next move.

WRT the second bowl, seems to me heaven opening portals to some nutrient-rich waters in heaven's ocean would be just the thing to kickstart some massive algal blooms.

erik_t wrote:Neat idea, but angels can detect E&M just fine. And I can't think of any alternatives.

Kid in the trunk. We just need a small sensative.

Stuart wrote:You are great with your words and make many speeches but they mean nothing.

To what speeches was Gabriel referring? Because from what I've heard, Kim Jong-il has only spoken publicly to the people of North Korea once. He doesn't exactly qualify as a great orator to the people, so it that was what you were going for, you might want to revise that. I suppose he may have made a lot of speeches to party insiders...

CaptainChewbacca wrote:WRT the second bowl, seems to me heaven opening portals to some nutrient-rich waters in heaven's ocean would be just the thing to kickstart some massive algal blooms.

Or it could have been an Angel tossing super-algae cultures into the ocean.

Junghalli wrote:Or it could have been an Angel tossing super-algae cultures into the ocean.

Red Tide needs food to bloom like that. Super-algae alone won't cut it.

Or Kim and the Myanmar junta could be pulling double crosses of sorts. Kim might figure that if he plays out long enough, he can trap a high ranking messenger like Gabriel, while as has been pointed out, Rangoon could just spike their drugs with all sorts of fun surprises for Michael. Of course, that requires a lot of rationality on their parts, which has always been a very iffy idea at best.

Since those two are apparently the only ones Mike has any pull over and he wants to use them to attack, it seems that he doesn't quite understand the differences between various human forces.

Qaddafi certainly won't be joining them. He just sent off a division into Hell, which is pretty much anything of note in the Libyan Army, so he can't do very much to his neighbors unless he intends to annoy Mubarak and Olmert by spamming their email accounts.

Oh this is getting interesting, a renewed war in Korea could cause all sorts of problems. However it can only end one way for North Korea - very badly.
The red bloom is a wory, especially if it disrupts the food chain and effects fish stocks.

If North Korea attacks the South, then the US can open a portal from hell to North Korea and drive a couple armored corps back to earth... and right into downtown Pyongyang. The advantage in strategic mobility of having all the allied worlds mechanized armies in one spot, in hell, in terms of deployment back to earth is rather staggering. It is in fact a very bad time to be starting a war but humans tend to be bad at thinking those things through.

Glad to see the details about Michael's contacts with the Burmese junta.

Panaka wrote:A nuke is launched and is set off at extreme high altitude above Pyongyang. This is followed by the message that the next launches will be in 12 hours, but these will be detonated at standard airburst altitude or will be ground bursts. North Korea has those 12 hours to withdraw/surrender. Any other action will result in immidiate launch.
<snip>
Alternatively China is requested to sent an army group across the border as a buildup is spotted.

China has repeatedly advised North Korea to reform its economy. Kim Jong-il has repeatedly refused. Anything short of an outright invasion- i.e., repeat the Korean War, but with China as a US ally- is unlikely to make North Korea end its war with the South.

Meanwhile Myamar is told to pay attention.

EdBecerra wrote:Yeah - but that little cart worries me. A nice electric cart, and they just happen to think of it?

I expect that cart has either a camera, a bomb, or both.

Ed.

I share EdBecerra's suspicions. Myanmar is probably straddling the fence and watching both sides. The junta will use the MacGuffin in the cart when it becomes fucking obvious Heaven will lose- and not one moment before this- and then lay claim to whatever spoils the generals can get their hands on.

[puts on Wild Ass Speculation Cap]

Might Michael also be trying to play all sides, maybe trying to be too clever? Starting a shooting war or two on Earth, make it obvious that there has been angelic interference, and then when he has his coup or whatever claims to be against the side that started it all (and in doing so throws Gabe and many of his own minions under the metaphorical bus)? A very dangerous game he plays, if that's the case. One that can easily backfire on him. Unless he has a lot of backup plans to cover or save his ass in the case that his main plans explode on him...like being buddy-buddy with Yahweh's hippie son Jesus, for instance?

[removes cap]

Qaddafi certainly won't be joining them. He just sent off a division into Hell, which is pretty much anything of note in the Libyan Army, so he can't do very much to his neighbors unless he intends to annoy Mubarak and Olmert by spamming their email accounts.

"Hey guys! Here are some more sexy pictures of my hot all-women bodyguards! Bet you're jealous!"

If I were Kim Jong-Il, I would be terrified to know that my victims are waiting for me in Hell.

It seems to me that the only way Michael could come out on top is if he can delay for time and gather enough power to openly declare independence from heaven and launch his own war on God.

Surlethe wrote:Ah, that makes sense; the angels are working through regimes isolated from the rest of the world. I wonder if they have contacts with Qaddafi's Libya.

I'm not sure it's just isolation; I'd bet widely corrupt areas would have contact too. Yemen has always been a big drug exporter in the Middle-East (IIRC Yemeni clerics were the only ones in the Arabian Peninsula who said that Khat/Qat wasn't forbidden), the central government has also been pretty weak there. So I figure they'd be a good candidate for low level contact. Maybe the Somali's too, they'd be a smart place to contact for illicit arms of all sorts. It wouldn't even surprise me if Michael was in on the Blood Diamond trade somehow. Frankly, anywhere that large sums of money (precious stones in this case) could easily and untraceably find there way into the economy would be a good target for exploitation. A few more spring to mind: the Straits of Malacca and the off and on piracy therein, the political/nationalist terrorist organizations (FARC probably being the big one 'cause of the drug connection), and whatever diehards there are from the old Taliban/Al Queda (Al Queda proper, not AQ in Iraq) the access to the Afghan Opium Poppies in the more lawless south being what Michael would initially find useful, although it wouldn't surprise me if the organization is now defunct from die-offs.

Hopefully Michael's influence isn't as far reaching as that, because some of those groups are in strategically sensitive areas, Somali and Yemeni groups could seriously curtail maritime traffic through the Suez. The FARC could also conceivably do some damage to the Panama Canal, especially with so many forces out doing other things.

phongn wrote:Sounds like Gabriel is bluffing here: Kim Il-Sung doesn't seem to be the sort of man that Heaven wants (or Michael).

It's the PERFECT threat to use against North Korea -- they spent so much time brainwashing the whole country into thinking Kim Senior was a God; and you bet your ass that the North Korean MIlitary is jamming all broadcasts of the War on Hell -- so Kim Senior showing up back from the dead would totally destabilize Kim Junior's Regime.

Stuart wrote:"So? When did that make any difference?" Gabriel-Lan reflected that Kim Il-Sung actually looked a lot better than his son did. Given their present states, Kim Il-Sung could actually be mistaken for Kim Jong-Il's son rather than his father. "And, anyway, you of all people should know that he is dead. By the way, he wants an explanation as to why you puffed him in the face with that cyanide spray. If you are unprepared to take action, perhaps we should allow him to return and demand that explanation. After all, he is the "Eternal President" of this benighted country. Perhaps he should take up the reins again."

Is Gabriel talking through his hat, or is there a difference between the dead-in-Heaven and the dead-in-Hell that lets the dead-in-Heaven survive on Earth?

Baughn wrote:Well, let's see..

- Heaven hasn't let any humans in for the last millennium or so.

It's at least implied Michael snuck in some singers from relatively recent times to staff his club, isn't it?

Something's seriously wrong here...

On the one hand:

Stuart wrote:"We are pleased to supply our ally's needs." Secretary-General Myint Oo addressed Michael-Lan as an equal which irked the Archangel greatly although he concealed his feelings behind a friendly smile. "We have established new factories for the synthetic products and driven our rivals for the heroin supplies out of business. We can increase supplies still further if you wish."

And on the other:

Stuart wrote:Michael-Lan was genuinely touched by the consideration. "That is very kind of you. Thank you so much. And good luck with your redress of historical wrongs." Whistling happily, he pulled down on the handle of the trolley and felt the electric motors in the wheels boost his effort. Then, with a cheerful wave, he pulled his cargo of street-corner pharmaceuticals through the portal back to Heaven.

In the first bit, they seem to imply they're giving him the best synthetics they can make.

In the second, the phrase "street-corner pharmaceuticals" implies the sort of third-rate, adulterated crap you buy from that pusher down the block.

So which is true?

Ed.

MKSheppard wrote:

phongn wrote:Sounds like Gabriel is bluffing here: Kim Il-Sung doesn't seem to be the sort of man that Heaven wants (or Michael).

It's the PERFECT threat to use against North Korea -- they spent so much time brainwashing the whole country into thinking Kim Senior was a God; and you bet your ass that the North Korean MIlitary is jamming all broadcasts of the War on Hell -- so Kim Senior showing up back from the dead would totally destabilize Kim Junior's Regime.

I can actually see Kim Senior ordering the North Koreans to shoot his son on sight (it would be all the sweeter if it was at one of those mass gymnastics performances, arirang, is it?). There are all sorts of fun rumors about his last hours, Stuart mentioned one and I mentioned another one a few pages back.

Though Kim Senior would probably align Pyongyang with the rest of the world afterwards.

What about other deceased dictators whose progeny rule their former fiefs? There's Assad senior, Kabila senior and a whole host of various tinpot dictators and monarchs would might not be content with just ruling over some patch in Hell.

Hey I just started reading these stories a week or so ago and I decided I had to join up just so I could comment and hopefully make this fic even better than it already would turn out to be which is obviously amazing!

As being raised Presbyterian in a liberal family I’ve gradually drifted over into what amounts to being agnostic more or less with a strong dislike for people who do things just because some incredibly old book told them to, so I love the “Christ punching” aspect of this story for lack of a better word. Actually lets just make that “god punching” since Christ seems to be a pretty cool guy, what with him being a traditional long haired hippy.




Anyway, one idea that I saw in that last book that I’m sad to see nothing became of was Abigor mentioning that Satan had Adam as more or less his personal slave back in his castle, and the fact that we never got around to rescuing him, and given what we did to the Satan’s fortress it’s pretty obvious that Adam probably bought it during the bombing run.

That’s a shame to me because this fic/series already runeth over with awesomeness how great would it be to have been able to have a scene in the book where humanity manages to rescue Adam and he gets to see what his children have gone onto do. While he once quivered in helpless fear before god’s wrath and has been nothing but Satan’s scratching post for countless years, we’re now sucker punching the define and the infernal in the face, gut, and just about anywhere else we can hit them. Plus imagine what a great photop it would make to have a shot of Adam now fully dressed in a business suit or whatever, clean shaven, calmly strolling down a shopping aisle examining different types of apples, if we could send that picture up to the “all mighty” then there would be multicolored lightning for sure! Also possibly when the time comes, Adam could be called out of hell for just long enough to push the button that fires the atomic rocket which will nuke Yaweh out of existence, since the poetic justice of it would be wonderfully fitting....

Sadly there’s nothing we can do about that now right? Well maybe we can do something similar with Eve when we find her, but for some reason it just wouldn’t stand out as strongly maybe it’s because I’m male and thus identify more with Adam, though I suppose we could do a Pinup shot of Eve in fig leaf bikini eating an apple, or possibly deep throating a banana if we wanted to go for pure audacity...


Also some posts back someone mentioned wondering how exactly Yahweh’s first bowl was really going to hurt us since it would seem like anyone who it killed would just pop up in hell with a new body which is now immune to disease, and I’d like to know more about how the Anthrax is suppose to stop us with that in mind. Of course given that the bowl was designed back when going to hell meant eternal torment rather than a 5 minute time out before you got back in the game, it probably made sense at the time, but I would love to see if that is exactly what happens. After all Yahweh got the bowl ready back when Satan was still around, so it would make sense not for it to have the same kind of “soul killing” after effect that Uriel does, and given that for the most part Heaven has been having things their way by and large it would be nice to see an attack of theirs completely fizzle due to the fact that we’re slowly turning Hell into a fairly nice place to spend your afterlife.


I think it's a good point that while Kim's father can't come back to earth even if Heaven has him stashed away some place it's not like he'll actually need to be in North Korea to run the country I mean all he really needs is one of those "surrogets" like on Arrested Development, a guy wearing a camera for a hat and a ear piece who says what ever Kim's father tells him to. Granted that kind fo tech would be hard to come by on its own in Heaven or Hell but I'm sure Micheal might just have it stashed away just in case, it's more likely then him having one particular dictator stashed away in Heaven. Besides, Kim's clearly not "all there" at the moment and he's always shown signs of being paranoid so I'm not suprised Micheal's bluff/threat worked, besides if he can see Kim's hair doesn't that suggest Kim isn't wearing his tin foil hat? (Cue X-files music...)





Also on the issue of a Armageddon movie, I would just like to make a few suggestions.

I think that during the opening title crawl we should hear Assemblage 23’s “Let Me Be Your Armor” http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/ ... mblage-23/
531C35CAF0E143334825703400065D03 since I think it perfectly sums up Yahweh’s interaction with humanity weather he sees it that way or not. During the first two stanzas and repetitions of the chorus in addition to the required credits we’ll also be shown relevant portions of the bible quoting about all the great miracles that God or Jesus pulled off, stuff like curing the lame, razing the dead, but once we get to the start of the third stanza (Let me keep you from experiencing need) we’ll show up everybody’s favorite quotation from Judges 1:19 “Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots.” (or “Yahweh was with Judah; and drove out [the inhabitants of] the hill country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron” but sweet merciful Budda that isn’t too easy on the eyes it, anyone know a more appropriate translation involving “Yahweh”?) Followed by a few more unsavory quotations (destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot’s wife turned to salt, yanking Abraham’s chain to see if he would sacrifice his son, (That was Abraham right, sorry it’s been a while since I read the book...) that kind of thing, and during the final chorus we’ll see newspaper clippings of the great improvements that humanity has brought for itself like the Polo vaccine, small box vaccine, whatever medical equipment it was that let us dig bullets out of people’s limbs rather than needing to just cut them off, the first person who has lost both their legs but was able to walk with mechanized prosthetics, the first person to get a cochlear implant, etcetera. I figure between the song being about how over bearing authority figures who say they want to protect us but also demand complete obedience aren’t worth the trouble and the fact that we’re seeing proof that humanity has already figured out how to do many of the things God did (cure the sick of disease, make the lame walk again, make the deaf hear) plus the fact that our “miracles” come with pictures rather then just words should make it more viscerally obvious that these aren’t just empty boasts, but actual things we’re accomplishing hear and now, would make a find leaping off point into the rest of the movie.

As for the credits to send people home with a smile I think The Maverick’s “I want to know” http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/ ... 330010911B of course it might be appropriate to show shots of Satan have been all splattered at “The Devil’s not wrung dry” followed by Jesus and Michael “meditating before the crystal tube of enlightenment” at “why nobody gets high” I think this works as a closing song because if nothing else just the expression “I want to know” oh so perfectly sums up what makes humanity what it is in this fic, we want to know everything unlike Deamons and unlike Angles no matter what we will always ask questions and examine the world(s) around us.

As for Pantheocide I’d imagine the starting music I’d want for that would be Fallout Boy’s Hum Hallelujah http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/ ... 80000ACF5E which while not as good a fit as “Let Me Be Your Armor” I think will do a pretty good job of touching upon many of the themes of the book, IE: breaking off relations with someone who we totally misjudged the character of. Besides “Hum Hallelujah just off the key of reason!” to me seems like a great refrain to throw in the faces of all the people who ended up in Heaven, since after all that’s exactly how they got there right? By never thinking for themselves and only chanting Yaweh’s praises.

Or we could do Three Days Grace’s “Just Like You” http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/ ... 5A0004DFFC and during it on one hand show drawings (preferably in renaissance artsy fartsy style) of the war between angels and deamons, while on the other hand we have shots of humans from the last movie doing what Yaweh never could, utterly defeat Satan and conquer hell.

Or hell just get anything by Dragonforce....


Anyway keep up the good work everybody and I hope I’m not over stepping my boundaries by hopping to attach myself as a memeber of such a magnificent vessel as yours, hell even if you don’t want me I’ll probably end up being a persistent and silent barnacle who’ll come along for the ride and never think about letting go!

I don't think the issue of Adam's final fate has been touched on one way or another. It's possible that he's still alive. And if I'm not very much mistaken Stuart has yet to publish so there is room for revisions if he feels like it. A cameo by Adam would indeed be cool.

Of course, whether or not he has the significance of the Biblical Adam is an open question. He could just be some random Homo Erectus* or Cro-Magnon for all we know.

I'm actually hoping that the first bowl of wrath does accomplish something other than simply mildly inconveniencing us, because otherwise it makes the Angels look incompetent. They should know very well that we control Hell, and it's elementary logic from there that just sending people to Hell won't put them out of commission. Why bother with an attack that will be almost totally useless? I have a couple of theories on what might be happening, but my favored one is that they're diverting the souls of those people when they die and simply killing them a second time when they come out of Heaven's equivalent of the Minos Gate.

*Speaking of which, if Homo Erectus and other early Homo had souls and went to Hell, might they make up the majority of Hell's population, instead of humans? They were around for 10 times as long as humans have been.

On a side note to that, I can only imagine human evolution researchers virtually having seizures with excitement at this possibility. For instance, all those questions about Neanderthal linguistic and cognitive ability? Well now maybe you can go to Hell and find real live Neanderthals to study. A few minutes with an undead Neanderthal could tell you more about their behavior than decades of looking at bones.