SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread II

[Simon_Jester]

OK then.

I think we can still get this resolved fairly quickly, or delay consequences that would demand extensive writing to April.

I'm curious to know the route this Shepistani fleet is taking, and how close they plan to come to Umerian space...

[Shroom Man 777]

BAH. And where are those other ADHD Lemmings anyway? I see so many blips on the map but hardly know what they're for!

EDIT:

Do we have any rules or limits or unit caps to prevent the game from descending into a lamefest where people end up posting nothing but their next super-mega-giant-poopy-awesome XYZ-thousand pointer supership of poo doom?

[Simon_Jester]

Eh, don't worry about it. If anyone's daft enough to build ships that big (and the mod consensus is daft enough to let them), it's not going to matter, because any competent opponent with a decent sized fleet will be able to spread them so thin they'll get cut to pieces.

The Byzantines are already at the top of the curve in overall across-the-board ship size...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Eh, don't worry about it. If anyone's daft enough to build ships that big (and the mod consensus is daft enough to let them), it's not going to matter, because any competent opponent with a decent sized fleet will be able to spread them so thin they'll get cut to pieces.

The Byzantines are already at the top of the curve in overall across-the-board ship size...

*shrug* Space is so big, that no large enough fleet will cover space, much less planets. Even if you have a large fleet, how much flexibility do you truly get?

The ideal workhorse ship size really is between 300-350$. Equip it with missile launchers etc. and you can harrass a fleet of smaller ships of inferior durability. (I didn't say fighters, because you sacrifice volume for a brain and fuel. A one way trip inflicts more damage, and cheaper.).

And in any case, arms races are a given in such games. The only problem is when that is all the game becomes, and no one does anything else.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, it doesn't matter. You'll do what you'll do, because you've already decided to do it, and there's no real point in our discussing the subject because you've already decided to stick to your guns in such debates come what may.

If it makes you happy to have arbitrarily large warships a-building, then do it, and we'll get back to you in ten years when they're finished.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

And in lighter news, we now have NANOBOT SPACE ZOMBIES. The Bragulans can easily mop them up with their K-bolters, but I don't think the few surviving Majellan insurgents will fare just as well.

And damn it, I really need to put up the latest parts of both the Gallian War and Santo Domingo Rogues storylines. Curse this writer's block...

[MKSheppard]

The Shepistani Navy is considering raising the tender from 600 points for a new top of the line heavy battlestar to about 800-900 for their next battlestar purchase; and is considering the design of Battlemoons with a capability in excess of 2000+ or so points to act as planetary defenses in light of the recent Collector incursion at Pendleton.

The fact that the Collectors have such powerful ships (In excess of nine thousaaaaaaaand); and are willign to use them to do whatever they want with an inseemingly insignificant shitsworlds such as pendelton has been a major shock to the Shepistani Admiralty; and they are asking themselves "what can we do if a collector fleet shows up in our territory?"

The answer is: "Not much unless we superconcentrate our fleet into a massive armada of DOOOOOOOM" that can only be in one place at a time.

Either that, or we invent a superweapon to deal with the Collectors; and then the game turns into a giant game of e-peen oneupmanship.

So no superweapons; just raw pointage.

[Shroom Man 777]

I think there should be a cap to how much raw giant point ships we can build. Technological limits, or something.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, it should never have been a surprise that the Collectors are used as an excuse for anything like an armed race.

[K. A. Pital]

I think the whole point of the game giving such ships to the Collectors in small numbers was to make people COOPERATE and TALK to the Collectors, not start a one-upmanship on how large a ship one can build.

The Commune, for example, does not engage in a buildup right now, because it is in my view better to increase power via talking to others instead of playing a one-man game as if it was Hearts of Iron or something.

The Collectors are a special case. I think ships with over 1000-2000 power are very unfrequent in major civilizations; I also think if you chose to build ships of a certain type (200-buckers, 1000-buckers or, in case of the Collectors, 10000-buckers), your civilization shouldn't have a carte blanche to deviate from that style.

Anglia can't suddenly start building 10000 buckers when they've only built 500 buckers. Same for the Shepistanis and others. That's just stupid and kills the game diversity.

[DarthShady]

Well, it would be something interesting to do, so go ahead

I will, soon. Should be interesting to see how the soulless machines deal with unexpected complications.

I have other things to take care of first though.

Also: I have to say that I agree with Stas, trying to one-up the Collectors or each other is pointless, when there are far better and more fun alternatives.

[RogueIce]

The Collectors are a special case. I think ships with over 1000-2000 power are very unfrequent in major civilizations; I also think if you chose to build ships of a certain type (200-buckers, 1000-buckers or, in case of the Collectors, 10000-buckers), your civilization shouldn't have a carte blanche to deviate from that style.

Anglia can't suddenly start building 10000 buckers when they've only built 500 buckers. Same for the Shepistanis and others. That's just stupid and kills the game diversity.

This is a good idea. If your largest ship thus far was $600, you won't suddenly be making the leap to $2000 ships. Unless you enjoy catastrophic failures, of course. There should be a logical progression in ship size construction (having such large ships through Mysterious Backstory doesn't count either) and since it would take so long to even build a single MegaShip, well, by the time anyone gets close to a Collector Monolith it'll be so far down the road it may not even matter anymore.

As far as holding off on the time skip, I'll agree with Steve. If only because, knowing Shep, the looming conflict between him and the New Anglian Coalition (or at least those who wish to partake and don't bow out) could, in fact, be Very Important and significantly affect the state of the galaxy in April.

Or it won't and we'll just have to wait and see. Since I check the OOC thread first and the latest post in the story thread is by Shep, maybe I'll be proven wrong within about five minutes.

EDIT: OK, he was just issuing orders for Battlestars. We'll have to wait and see what happens at Bannerman.

[Lonestar]

Just as I mentioned(in game) earlier, the Grand Dominion will not be buying new capital vessels until at least FY04. Money will continued to be spent on infrastructure and other economic improvements, with upgrades to the Star Dreadnoughts and Battleships as part of the FRAM V program.

[Steve]

I seem to recall stating that new acquisitions shouldn't exceed 25% of your total fleet? Also, theoretically, new ships should probably be within a 20-25% range size of your biggest. For example, I can go from my current largest ship of $650 value to $800, but wouldn't be able to go to $825 or higher.

And people are right. While it's realistic to be concerned with the Collector Threat, there are other avenues than MASSIVE MILITARY SPENDING. Not that I expect Shep to contemplate anything else.

[MKSheppard]

I seem to recall stating that new acquisitions shouldn't exceed 25% of your total fleet?

29,000 points total acquistion divided by four years = 7250 points acquistion each year.

55,000 point total fleet so far...so each Fiscal Year's procurement is 13% of the total fleet.

We just contracted it all at once and then used accounting tricks to procure it across several years, allowing for long lead procurement times and economies of scale, rather than ordering everything in small batches, ending up with fragmented subclasses.

[Akhlut]

Sorry about the long delay. Life's been really busy due to chronic poverty, work, and a 2 year old. However, things have cleared up a bit, so I can get back to participating more fully. I'll try to post a longish story post tonight.

[Shroom Man 777]

Welcome back! Yays! Simon Jester will be so happy that his favorite dinosaurianoids are back!

[MKSheppard]

And more of the Bragulan Star Empire is revealed! Don't you love those adorable ursinoids?

[Simon_Jester]

I seem to recall stating that new acquisitions shouldn't exceed 25% of your total fleet? Also, theoretically, new ships should probably be within a 20-25% range size of your biggest. For example, I can go from my current largest ship of $650 value to $800, but wouldn't be able to go to $825 or higher.

And people are right. While it's realistic to be concerned with the Collector Threat, there are other avenues than MASSIVE MILITARY SPENDING. Not that I expect Shep to contemplate anything else.

His new ships are all built to existing classes or smaller, and since this is a multi-year construction plan he's announcing, I don't think the rate of acquisitions is a problem.

I mean, I have a plan for Fleet 3410 (one that may need to be revised...) that involves building a lot of ships... over a ten year period.

As long as he pays for the gunstars, and as long as the budget adds up (what IS his national GDP, anyway), I don't see the problem.

[Force Lord]

A Commune-Umeria alliance is not something the Centrality would like to see.

[Simon_Jester]

A Commune-Umeria alliance is not something the Centrality would like to see.

Duly noted. Bear in mind (OOC, since in character Enduvos would probably not be able to grasp this) that the Umerians have deep reservations about the possibility of the Commune picking fights with people, and so any understanding between the two countries is unlikely to be used aggressively against a random human state.

BUT:

In a parallel universe close to this one, the following diplomatic note gets sent instead of the one I just posted in the Diplomatic Communications thread:

From: Tagdef Borlon, Foreign Secretary of the Centrality
To: Maxim Chernov, Second Technarch for Foreign Affairs

We view with great concern rumors regarding a possible pact between your nation and the Commune. Our relations with the latter have never been well, and indeed quite hostile, and it is our interest in warning you that a military alliance will not be seen with good eyes here. If you go through this pact, we may be forced to respond in kind.

From: Maxim Chernov, Second Technarch for Foreign Affairs
To: Tagdef Borlon, Foreign Secretary of the Centrality

We appreciate your frankness. Your concerns are duly noted, and we formally state that we have no hostile intentions against the Centrality, so long as the Centrality does not engage in unwarranted aggression towards friends of the Technocracy in the region.

P.S. Are you having trouble with your ion cannon? We hear there are pills for that nowadays...

[Force Lord]

P.S. Are you having trouble with your ion cannon? We hear there are pills for that nowadays...

I fear a vaccine is needed instead...

[Simon_Jester]

Tweaked a few minor bugs in my military construction post where I'd got the math a bit wrong; was looking it over with an eye to possible modifications of the plan in subsequent years.

EDIT: Proposing an 'olive branch' to the Centrality situation: we would be happy to make a serious effort at arbitrating any grievances the Centrality may have with the Commune.

EDIT II: Umeria has no problem talking to people whose public announcements have nothing to do with their private diplomacy... as long as there is some way for us to access their private diplomacy, to get binding assurances from their government and such.

We don't care what you say in public, as long as you're honest to our government.

[Simon_Jester]

New one-off post up, on the Umerian civil defense drills.

Bert the Turtle, eat your heart out...

[Agent Sorchus]

BAH. And where are those other ADHD Lemmings anyway? I see so many blips on the map but hardly know what they're for!

Who are you talking about.

As for myself, I have a case of writers block and a swollen wrist at the same time. I am going to try to have some more Power Rangers tomorrow, and hopefully a slice of life piece for the EUC done soon.