The MMA thread (mk1)

[Edward Yee]

Speaking of Jose Aldo, this was worth many lols. (Credit to, I believe, Derek "subo" Suboticki of Fightlinker and Bloody Elbow.)

[weemadando]

That's a great pic. But this is a better quote.

[url=http://www.cagepotato.com%2Fbrazil-continues-be-tough-fair-chael-sonnen]"Thank God we’ve still got Wanderlei to act as MMA’s moral compass and bring some sense back to this conversation"[/url]

[Edward Yee]

Heh, to an extent... btw, there's some sad irony in watching Leonard Garcia vs. Hominick and Chan Sung Jung vs. George Roop, the latter aka the "we got screwed by Leonard Garcia" fight (joke not mine)...

Oh, and GOOD LORD UBEREEM *watched him vs. Ben Edwards under K-1 rules*

Also, guys who wanna put on "Griffin vs. Bonnar" and think that that's their ticket to the big time... take notes, because from now on, THIS is what I want it to look like.

Feeling bad for Freddy Kemayo though.

[TheFeniX]

My enjoyment of watching Ubereem demolish kickboxers is marred by the fact that he should take some time out to actually, you know, defend his Strikeforce title. Michael Schiavello is the God damned devil, BTW. Some one told me once he was supposed to be the play-by-play commentator. I don't buy it.

So, I've been forced to watch the entirety of TUF this season (normally, I just FF to the fight unless something interesting happens) because the ol' lady loves her some GSP. Good God Koscheck is a walking cliche'. Everything he does and says is right out of high school athletics. You could put him, as is, into any movie as the stupid jock villain and he'd win (rightfully this time) an oscar. But it's more than that, you could put him into a movie that parodies the stupid high school jock and he'd still fit right in.

I'd bet money that most people spend their time around him thinking "Is he serious, or is he fucking with me?" He's a parody of himself. The only other person I can even think that way about is Dan Severn, but he hasn't done anything terrible enough to be compared to Josh Koscheck.

I think he really gets under my skin because I knew people like him in high school. The insults are just so stupid, but no one says anything because, well, he's a violent idiot. I think he just doesn't know any better. No one has ever told him his insults are worthless. Probably due to fear of being layed on for 15 minutes.

[weemadando]

"So, I've been forced to watch the entirety of TUF this season (normally, I just FF to the fight unless something interesting happens) because the ol' lady loves her some GSP. Good God Koscheck is a walking cliche'. Everything he does and says is right out of high school athletics. You could put him, as is, into any movie as the stupid jock villain and he'd win (rightfully this time) an oscar. But it's more than that, you could put him into a movie that parodies the stupid high school jock and he'd still fit right in.

I'd bet money that most people spend their time around him thinking "Is he serious, or is he fucking with me?" He's a parody of himself. The only other person I can even think that way about is Dan Severn, but he hasn't done anything terrible enough to be compared to Josh Koscheck. I think he really gets under my skin because I knew people like him in high school. The insults are just so stupid, but no one says anything because, well, he's a violent idiot.

I think he just doesn't know any better. No one has ever told him his insults are worthless. Probably due to fear of being layed on for 15 minutes."

Spit take. That is absolutely spot on.

I watch Koscheck and think the same thing. He's just such a pathetic figure. Ridiculous insults. Stupid (but at least harmless thus far) pranks. Barely contained rage.

Here's a similar piece from Cage Potato:

Honestly, Josh Koscheck is the most woefully inept bully in the world. His attempts to fuck with GSP never achieve their intended goal, and that only infuriates Josh more — in other words, he's getting under his own skin. Later in the episode, Koscheck shows up to practice wearing the kind of compression shorts that GSP is known for. "We're training in speedos today," Koscheck says. (We're not sure what he means by "we," since he's the only one wearing them.) "It works," GSP says. Koscheck asks GSP how he looks, and Georges says he doesn't like to check out other guys. "All those guys in the stands, you like them looking at you?" Koscheck asks. Jeez, this is starting to get creepy. Anyway, the champ brushes it off, leaving Koscheck in his little shorts while Jon Fitch stands around uncomfortably. Hey, there's another guy whose ass GSP kicked!

And a hilarious note from Kyle Watson's blog on MMA Junkie:
"In next week's show, you'll hear a lot more about Jean-Charles Skarbowsky from France. He's Georges's Muay Thai coach, and he was a little confused about what to do on the show.

He thought he was coming in for "The Contender" and was under the impression that we were a bunch of wannabe fighters who needed to be put into place. He didn't understand that we needed to be healthy for the show, and he pretty much kicked the [expletive] out of us. I'm sure you guys will enjoy that."

[weemadando]

And these are my official picks for Strikeforce this weekend:

KJ Noons def Nick Diaz, rnd3 Unanimous Dec via delusions of striking grandeur.

Gilbert Melendez def Noons Sr, rnd1 Post Fight Interview via sucker punch.

N & N Diaz def KJ Noons, rnd 2 Post Fight Interview via beatdown.

Gus Johnson def Mauro Renallo, rnd3 Post Fight Interview via SHOUTED HYPERBOLE!

CSAC def Scott Coker, two weeks later via "What the hell was that?"

[TheFeniX]

Here's a similar piece from Cage Potato:

I read that not 15 minutes after making my post as I try to avoid any comments on TUF until I've had time to watch the episode myself. I just feel Koscheck really rubs people (or just me) the wrong way because he's gone completely over the edge with the jock stereotype. The terrible trash-talk between Ortiz and Shamrock was hilarious because they each took themselves so seriously. But with Koscheck, it's just aggravating.

I also don't know whether to hate Bruce Leeroy, or start a fan-club.

KJ Noons def Nick Diaz, rnd3 Unanimous Dec via delusions of striking grandeur.

I'm biased because I really dislike Diaz, but I think after finding his range in the later part of round one, Noons will start to pick Diaz apart, then finish him in the second via TKO. Besides a lucky sub off his back, I don't see Diaz taking but. But he does generally find a way to win.

N & N Diaz def KJ Noons, rnd 2 Post Fight Interview via beatdown.

Put on the original Shields post fight brawl, mute it, then play this (NSFW and it's Rap, so you've been warned) in the background. When I get the audio lined up right, I laugh hysterically.

[aerius]

I don't know man, I'm thinking Nick Diaz def KJ Noons via 3rd round TKO, then testing positive for weed.

[weemadando]

Did anyone else see the BE Judo Chop on the Diaz bros striking? I have to agree that they're excellent strikers - when they're up against people who aren't. But their looping style makes good straight punchers a better pick. Except if you're a judge who thinks that throwing looping arm punches or giant haymakers that miss is how you win a fight.

Here's a similar piece from Cage Potato:

I read that not 15 minutes after making my post as I try to avoid any comments on TUF until I've had time to watch the episode myself. I just feel Koscheck really rubs people (or just me) the wrong way because he's gone completely over the edge with the jock stereotype. The terrible trash-talk between Ortiz and Shamrock was hilarious because they each took themselves so seriously. But with Koscheck, it's just aggravating.

I also don't know whether to hate Bruce Leeroy, or start a fan-club.

I don't know about you but I'm starting a Sevak fan club.

BRAINING PEOPLE WITH NAPKINS MOTHERFUCKERS!

[Edward Yee]

Speaking of kickboxing, Hesdy Gerges' team (through Black Label Fighting, but more importantly through It's Showtime) accuses Semmy Schilt of receiving illegal taping-up (over a cut on his right shin) without official supervision (that they claim would have led to a stoppage in favor of Gerges), want Schilt out of the K-1 finals... and Gerges in. Bas Boon is not impressed. (Golden Glory is home to both Overeem and new Strikeforce 135 lb women's champion Marloes Coenen, while Black Label Fighting is behind Badr Hari, K-1's 70 kg champion Giorgio Petrosyan, and apparently a bunch of other budding talents.)

Unfortunately for your Sevak love, I have to agree with those who view him as a loving "Hold me back bro" Armenian MMA stereotype.

As for the Diaz brothers.... quite intriguing, and now that Diaz has retained... does anyone really want to see a rubber match? WAR Coenen, and I'd advise holding off on Woodley vs. Galvao as a sign of "wrestling > BJJ," considering that apparently Galvao's stand-up was so much worse that he was having to go for the takedowns on the wrestler.

Also, the Viacheslav Datsik vs. Aleksander Emelianenko shit-talk = MONEY.

Speaking of Kyle Watson @ MMA Junkie, he also said this about Koscheck's persona:

At first I really thought that is how he is. Later in the season some of the guys on the yellow team said that Koscheck doesn't really like being the bad guy and he hates how people judge him without knowing him. And after the show when we had dinner with Dana, Josh said I hope you guys know that a lot of what I said and did on the show was for hype. So I am not really sure. It seems like a combination of both. I think he does have some asshole characteristics but also knows how to play things up.

[weemadando]

Unfortunately for your Sevak love, I have to agree with those who view him as a loving "Hold me back bro" Armenian MMA stereotype.

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I just think that Sevak is one of the most entertaining non-fight aspects of the show thus far. Plus - who the hell throws a napkin with bad intentions?

As for the Diaz brothers.... quite intriguing, and now that Diaz has retained... does anyone really want to see a rubber match? WAR Coenen, and I'd advise holding off on Woodley vs. Galvao as a sign of "wrestling > BJJ," considering that apparently Galvao's stand-up was so much worse that he was having to go for the takedowns on the wrestler.

I really want to get it off my chest that if Noons had gotten a fucking haircut and followed up with some of his strikes instead of pausing to brush the hair out of his eyes, he could have won it in r2. That said, he didn't, he had a shit gameplan (guess what, your lunging outside uppercut ain't paying dividends, so don't go to it to enter EVERY combo) and let Diaz keep him at range.

Woodley v Galvao says more about the fact that not every BJJ world champ is MMA champ material, much like how not every all American wrassler is MMA champ material.

Also, the Viacheslav Datsik vs. Aleksander Emelianenko shit-talk = MONEY.

Maybe they can have the fight in prison to make sure no one else who doesn't already have Hepatitis get's exposed to it.

Speaking of Kyle Watson @ MMA Junkie, he also said this about Koscheck's persona:

At first I really thought that is how he is. Later in the season some of the guys on the yellow team said that Koscheck doesn't really like being the bad guy and he hates how people judge him without knowing him. And after the show when we had dinner with Dana, Josh said I hope you guys know that a lot of what I said and did on the show was for hype. So I am not really sure. It seems like a combination of both. I think he does have some asshole characteristics but also knows how to play things up.

With regards to that, if you don't like people judging you without knowing you and deeming you to be an irredeemably annoying jock, then don't act exactly to type 100% of the time.

[aerius]

With regards to that, if you don't like people judging you without knowing you and deeming you to be an irredeemably annoying jock, then don't act exactly to type 100% of the time.

No kidding, I mean Tito Ortiz is a massive whiny prick but he's actually respectable as a coach. You don't watch him on TUF and start hating him the way everyone hates Koscheck, he's actually rather likable, especially on TUF3.

[Edward Yee]

Part of the difference is their coaching styles, it seems -- Koscheck seems obsessed with making his guys work out ("old-school wrestler" mentality according to Kyle Watson) and getting to GSP mentally and picked guys for existing positive qualities, while GSP drills his guys on technique (to keep them healthy, they don't even weight lift), brushes off Koscheck's attempted taunts, and picked guys who he felt he could help the most, complete with sparring with them personally.

In fairness to Sevak, according to Watson it wasn't entirely that Sevak was posing, but that he did (in time) realize the absolute no-no of a non-sanctioned fight.

[Edward Yee]

Marloes Coenen's airport welcome: BALLIN'

And now we've seen the first coaching/strategy fuckup by Team GSP. that remark by Watson about keeping healthy by not lifting during training? Washed away by one day of Jean-Charles Skarbowski in their lives. According to Watson, Skarbowski was drunk, under the impression that he was on "The Contender" to teach a lesson to some fighter wannabes, and didn't realize that Josh Koscheck was mocking him later in the episode. Here's Watson on why that was bad:

So, Jean Charles showed up drunk, and he started beating the crap out of us. And what's worse, I guess he decided to leave his shin pads back in France. He was only wearing gloves, so every time he would hit us with a shin or throw us around, it was painful. He was just completely rag-dolling us, and you couldn't do anything to retaliate.

I remember this being one of the few times on the show where I really lost my temper. I was fresh off my fight with Andy Main and was still a little beat up. I could smell the liquor on Jean Charles, and we were going at it. He hit me with a brutal knee right in the ribs with no gear on. I dropped down, and he grabbed me, pulled me up real close and said in my ear, "Did that hurt?" I was like, "Yeah." He replied, "Just wait for the next one," and he continued going hard.

At one point, he dropped me again, and as I was trying to hold my gloves up and tell him, "Hey, man, take it easy; I've got to fight again soon," he just kept punching me in the face. When he was finished, I contemplated throwing my gloves across the gym, but I held my composure. I was so angry. I wasn’t going to train with a guy who shows up drunk and just beats the [expletive] out of us. You can't ask me to respect someone like that.

Before Jean Charles got there, Georges and John Danaher sat us down and explained that he was a different kind of person – a little insane – but to treat him with respect. That's cool, but he needs to respect me, too. Beating the [expletive] out of us and trying to hurt us before we have to fight isn't respectful.

I pretty much had my mind made up that I didn't like this guy at all, and I wasn’t going to train with him. However, I think Georges saw what happened in practice and pulled him aside. The next day, Jean Charles came in and was completely different. Besides being sober, he took us over to the heavy bags and showed us some solid technique. He was telling jokes, acting cool, and I wish he would have started out that way the day before.

It got better after that, and he trained with us for about a week. I think he figured out what he was really there to do, and we were able to pick up some technique and and appreciate his skills once he toned it down.

As for what happened at the end of the show... Watson exonerates Aaron Wilkinson (def. by Michael Johnson) and Andy Main (def. by Kyle Watson), but claims that Nam Phan lied about not taking part, when those three apologized later that night to Watson. For that matter, on TUF 12: The Aftermath Phan claims to have not even seen the footage of Team GSP's locker room until now, but he and Paige/GSP have reconciled.

For that matter, GSP on The Aftermath referred to Koscheck as "very easy to manipulate" on the show, that Skarbowski had been on a flight from France to Vegas and had been drinking all night right before he got to the show (hence vodka breath)... and that he'd be better at trash talking if it were in French.

[weemadando]

So, Kongo is the dirtiest fighter in the UFC for sure now...


Anyhow, onto UFC121.

BrockBeard "FRATE TRANE" Lesnar v Cain "Totally a real Mexican" Velasquez

I can understand why people are backing Velasquez in this fight, but I think they're wrong. Velasquez got dropped repeatedly by Kongo, wasn't that effective in return and then when he did manage to take Kongo down didn't have the GnP chops to finish him. His KO finish of Nogueira has proved to be not exactly the most stunning event as it seems that Big Nogs chin has headed off for the retirement village. Is his striking technically better than Lesnars? Yes. Will it win him the fight? Maybe.

But then we look at Brock. He survived an onslaught from Carwin that had previously broken everything it had touched in the division and then came back to win. And with the addition of Beard who knows how good that chin will be now? In wrestling stakes, Velasquez has shown good ability, but again, the power of "FRATE TRANE" in taking guys down and keeping them down has been remarkable. How many times did Velasquez get stood up in the Kongo fight because he couldn't do shit once he scored a takedown? Meanwhile look at Brock finishing Mir, Couture and Carwin on the ground, doing the big knees into Herring and generally beating him up too.

If anything, this comes down to cardio and though there's the talk from the Velasquez camp of "he can go for days", the point was raised on Cage Potato's Bum Rush radio of "who's he been trainign against?" On the Primetime series, name another heavyweight of any notable caliber that they've featured or even who hasn't been featured and works out of AKA. Struggling to? Yeah. So was I. Meanwhile Brock has surrounded himself with UFC heavyweights (not top tier, but they've all won fights there) and has been training with them. I'm sure that it's easy to "go for days" as a heavyweight when you're sparring with Fitch or Koscheck, but how are you going to hold up when it's someone your own size?

My pick is Lesnar by TKO (strikes on teh ground) late in r2.


Just quickly:

Jake Shields deserves to be KO'd by Kampmann. I really hope this happens.

Paulo Thiago should light up Diego pretty well.

Tito has already set up his cover story for when he loses - he's been tweeting about "betrayals" etc, so clearly when he loses he can say his head wasn't in it. Then he can go off and fight Ken Shamrock again somewhere.

I want to see Gonzaga beat Schaub, just because his YouTube antics have been simply amazing and he needs the win money to ensure that we keep getting more of them.



Court McGee needs to win simply so we can continue in our quest to see Abe Lincoln's angry mini-clone continue on his race up the ladder.

And Patrick Cote v Tom Lawlor? I'm not sure who I want to win less. Actually, I'd rather have Lawlor around for amusement value. But he's going to get KO'd.

[aerius]

I missed UFC 120 since I was too busy getting smashed at my friend's wedding reception, I'll catch it whenever SpikeTV gets around to re-airing it.

I can understand why people are backing Velasquez in this fight, but I think they're wrong.

I think it really comes down to the fact that people hate Brock and will find any reason they can see no matter how stupid to give Cain the win. According to them, Cain will stop all of Brock's takedowns and KO him standing or take him down and pound him out. Really. Who the fuck has ever stopped a Brock Lesnar takedown for even a single round? Brock has never been taken down and Carwin couldn't knock him out, and Cain is gonna do it? Right. Brock ate the same Frank Mir knee that had CroCop out cold for ages and he's gotten hit with more punches from Carwin than the rest of Carwin's victims put together, and he still wasn't out. Cain is good, but he's not some superhuman Mexican dude.

Then again I can't say I'm surprised since these are mostly the same morons who believe Koscheck has better wrestling and striking than GSP.


Shields deserves to get KO'd but frankly I think he's got a freebie fight. Kampmann has all of one KO in the UFC, he's got good technical striking but doesn't have the power to really hurt people, Shields will either take him down and hump him for 3 rounds or get a sub win.

Paulo Thiago gets heavily overrated because of his lucky KO on Kos and the knockdown & sub on Swick. He was losing in the standup against Kos till he got the punch in and he was barely even against Swick. In terms of striking, neither of them is any better than Diego. I think the fight will actually be quite even.

Want Gonzaga to win too but who knows where he's at these days? Couture ate his soul and he hasn't been the same since then.

[weemadando]

Shields deserves to get KO'd but frankly I think he's got a freebie fight. Kampmann has all of one KO in the UFC, he's got good technical striking but doesn't have the power to really hurt people, Shields will either take him down and hump him for 3 rounds or get a sub win.

Bloody Elbow: Martin Kampmann says Jake Shields has boring fights. News at 11.

I expect Shields to win, but then again he showed a lot against Thiago and I have to hope that someone will stop us from seeing GSP v yet another fucking wrestler.

Paulo Thiago gets heavily overrated because of his lucky KO on Kos and the knockdown & sub on Swick. He was losing in the standup against Kos till he got the punch in and he was barely even against Swick. In terms of striking, neither of them is any better than Diego. I think the fight will actually be quite even.

Diego isn't cartwheeling of yes Diego anymore though. He looked just strange in his last fight. Thiago will be angry after the Kampmann loss. I'm on the bandwagon to be sure as I love watching him eat AKA guys, but I do think that he's more than enough for Diego.

Want Gonzaga to win too but who knows where he's at these days? Couture ate his soul and he hasn't been the same since then.

Something is wrong with Gonzaga ever since that. But who knows. Maybe remodelling his house with his feet will have done him some good.

[TheFeniX]

So, Kongo is the dirtiest fighter in the UFC for sure now...

That whole fight was just surreal even though it's not all that surprising. Kongo is just a very poor sportsman and really doesn't belong in a promotion like the UFC. He needs to be booted like they did with Sobral. At least this (4MB gif warning) made up for it. What can I say, I'm a fan of Dan Hardy getting KTFO. Although it would have been cool to see the first double KO in the UFC. But then we were treated to Penn vs Edgar III in the Bisping vs Akiyama fight. Still not bad for a free card.

And the text-messages have started for the Lesnar fight ("dude, u hostin?"). More so with Tito on the card (say what you want about the jackass, he sells tickets).

[weemadando]

I had an e-mail conversation with Jordan Breen of Sherdog about Kongo and points deductions. Apparently after you get a point deducted for something (in this case, grabbing shorts) the ref has to go through warning again before applying further penalties for the same offence. Which to my mind is bullshit as if you've already been warned so many times and had a point stripped then you shouldn't need another round of fucking warnings.

[TheFeniX]

I had an e-mail conversation with Jordan Breen of Sherdog about Kongo and points deductions. Apparently after you get a point deducted for something (in this case, grabbing shorts) the ref has to go through warning again before applying further penalties for the same offence. Which to my mind is bullshit as if you've already been warned so many times and had a point stripped then you shouldn't need another round of fucking warnings.

Personally, I'm thinking DQ after something like that. I'm tired of certain fighters playing the game with concern to shorts grabbing, lazy (or intentionally low) knees in the clinch, and open palm striking or reaching. Kongo was intentionally cheating as far as I'm concerned and didn't stop when warned. Give him an L and move on.

Just like we need to start seeing 10-10 and 9-9 rounds, some ref is going to have to fall on a sword and teach fighters that this shit is not ok and you're going to be penalized for it with more than a slap on the wrist. If you wanted to take the coward's way out, you could just give away 10% of their purse to the other guy rather than taking a point.

But I'm tired of this shit. You are not the same fighter once you've taken a hard (or even grazing) shot to the groin. Eye-pokes are not only performance affecting, they can also cause irreparable damage or require lengthy surgery to correct.

[weemadando]

Yet more Velasquez apologetics, this time at Bloody Elbow.

I'll summarise for you. Because Lesnar got hit by Carwin and then retreated and turtled up, that means that he has no heart, no will to fight and doesn't like getting hit. And when he is getting hit in the face a lot he doesn't utilise perfect technique. Therefore he is weak and undeserving. WAR VELASQUEZ.

There are some valid critiques in there, but the way it's phrased just seems disingenuous.

The more that I read this kind of stuff the more I just want Brock to have this entrance again:


And then finish Velasquez with something like a shooting star press off the top of the cage. Hopefully more successfully than this one:


Then just eat Joe Rogan during the post fight interview and carry off a ring girl under each arm back to his cave.

[weemadando]

I'm not sure I've ever laughed so hard during an episode of TUF.

Watching Cody completely psyche-out mini-Koscheck and get him to dive straight into the guillotine was beautiful. And then the complete silence from the yellow team afterwards until Nam Pham came out with the line that said it all: "Wow."

And then Sevak. Poor guy. You're an Armenian judo-ka, so we were hoping to see some great moves. Instead he gets reversed and ippwned. And then choked.

I still want him to get a wildcard slot because him v Bruce Leroy would still be a total bloodbath.

[Edward Yee]

Technique-wise, I believe according to Kyle Watson, the "McKenzietine" allowed McKenzie to keep applying pressure for a blood choke (as opposed to an "air choke") even after Stevens had passed to side control on the "far" side (opposite the choking arm), which apparently is how to get out of a NORMAL guillotine choke... I was told like the prayer choke that Marcelo Garcia does, with different grips.

Now only Sako is left to fly the banner of BRO... I've heard this be called one of the best TUF episodes ever, and this season possibly second best behind the first season.

*pokes the Little Emperor with a stick*

[weemadando]

Yeah, he has long skinny monkey arms that means that he's got the guillotine like guys with long skinny legs have triangles. And the adjustments he does are really nice touches.

Also Johnathon Brookins, the guy who beat Sevak - I thought he looked familiar and on reading a few blogs I noted that he was a former WEC guy. A former WEC guy who has fought Jose Aldo. A former WEC guy who took Jose Aldo into round 3.

Yeah.

He's like that apparently.

And I agree that this is definitely one of the best seasons. And that last episode was pure gold simply for Koscheck's idiocy. As Cage Potato's blog put it "Cody mean-mugs Stevens, but then grins and chin-checks Koscheck again before walking off, just like he did last episode. Koscheck has to be reminded that this should piss him off."

Plus it seems that the internet just loves to hate Koscheck:

[aerius]

Tito looks to have improved his striking but it wasn't enough and he had no defence against Hamill's takedowns. Ortiz loses again, and the crowd goes wild! Wonder what his excuse will be this time, too bad they didn't interview him.

Wow, Shields fight was pretty sad, Kampmann managed to stuff about half his takedowns and put a couple good knees into his face. Then Jake gases hard in the 3rd round and only a bad gameplan by Kampmann let him walk away with the split decision win. This is the guy that's supposed to be the biggest threat to GSP's title? Are you fucking shitting me? Not only would he get taken apart by GSP on the feet, he'd never even get close enough to get a hand on him for a takedown.