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havokeff wrote:Same QB. Same running back. Mostly same offensive line. Still nobody wide recievers, and if you say Desean Jackson, I will say T.O., and they choked in the SB with him. Same Head coach. Same offensive system.

While the Eagles don't have a true no. 1, when you can get the ball to 8 diferent receivers it tends to dampen the impact. Never mind the growing shift towards the run represents a titanic shift in Eagles offense.

The SB is a different tiger, so let's not go into that.

havokeff wrote: Same Defensive leader in FS Dawkins. Same Defensive coordinator. Same defensive scheme. I will give you that the rest of the difference has changed for the most part, but to say this is a different Team is fucking ridiculous.

Oh piss off, different doesn't mean just people on the field. Different includes an attitude, an outlook, a feeling. I realize that I'm using an intangible, but this really isn't the same team.

havokeff wrote: If someone is drinking the Kool-Aide, which apparently is bandwagon flavored, it certainly isn't me.

The only bandwagon I'm on is your mom's Hav, don't you fucking dare accuse me of that.

havokeff wrote: So you are saying that I can't say a team is the same as they used to be in citing their loses in big games so I think they will lose again in a big game, and you respond with... This team already beat a team so they will win again? Nice, retard.

But lets play this game any way...

To answer your question, The Cardinals lost.

Allow me to retort.
Baltimore lost to Tennessee in the regular season.
Arizona lost to Carolina in the regular season.
Philadelphia lost to New York in the regular season.
San Diego lost to Indianapolis in the regular season.

Oops there goes your point.

Nice theatrics, but you didn't pay attention to my argument. My argument wasn't that the Eagles simply Beat the Cards on Thanksgiving, they fucking destroyed them. Those 4 games you listed? Lost by a total of 14 points. Thanksgiving? 28.

I am not saying simply because they beat them once they will win, I am however saying the Eagles are on a roll right now and during that streak look what they did to the Cards once already. If I liked playoff systems decided by arbitrary record comparisions, I'd watch college football.

CmdrWilkens wrote: You mean when Arizona had a short week, flew to the east coast and then lost? Lets see, Arizona has:

Eagles had a short week too in fairness, and while home field advantage counts for something, but 28 points? That's a rather large gap, don't you think?

CmdrWilkens wrote: 1) The longer week

All of 18 hours headstart, color me unimpressed.

CmdrWilkens wrote: 2) Homefield advantage

That really hasn't been all it's cracked up to be recently, has it?

CmdrWilkens wrote: 3) No need to fly

That's a fair point, but this isn't baseball we're talking about.

CmdrWilkens wrote: 4) All their players should be healthy by then

Dunno, Boldin is a big question mark and that casts a rather large shadow. Eagles are pretty healthy themselves so both squads should be at realtively full strength.

CmdrWilkens wrote: So yeah I'm going with Cardinals over Eagles.

To be terribly honest, I really don't understand the confidence everyone is displaying with the Cardinals. They're obviously not a bad football team, but really people aren't giving the Eagles any credit.

That NOS Guy wrote: To be terribly honest, I really don't understand the confidence everyone is displaying with the Cardinals. They're obviously not a bad football team, but really people aren't giving the Eagles any credit.

While I would like the Cardinals to win I am skeptical about them doing so.


What would be interesting though is a Cardinals/Steelers Super Bowl since a bunch of the staff of the Cards had been part of the Pittsburgh staff back with Bill Cower. It would add a little more drama to the game anyway.

If not that, I'd kind of like to see Donovan McNab win a Super Bowl, especially without T.O.

If the Ravens make it in I would tend to expect another defensive ass whoopin' along the lines of what they gave the Giants in their previous Super Bowl win.

That NOS Guy wrote:

havokeff wrote:Same QB. Same running back. Mostly same offensive line. Still nobody wide recievers, and if you say Desean Jackson, I will say T.O., and they choked in the SB with him. Same Head coach. Same offensive system.

While the Eagles don't have a true no. 1, when you can get the ball to 8 diferent receivers it tends to dampen the impact. Never mind the growing shift towards the run represents a titanic shift in Eagles offense.

The SB is a different tiger, so let's not go into that.

Why, because it illustrates their biggest choke? And history also show that the Eagles will revert to the 90% pass scheme at any given moment, not to mention that Reid has gone run heavy in the past. Again, you are the one drinking the bandwagon flavored kool-aide.

havokeff wrote: Same Defensive leader in FS Dawkins. Same Defensive coordinator. Same defensive scheme. I will give you that the rest of the difference has changed for the most part, but to say this is a different Team is fucking ridiculous.

Oh piss off, different doesn't mean just people on the field. Different includes an attitude, an outlook, a feeling. I realize that I'm using an intangible, but this really isn't the same team.

Yeah and they had that same "outlook, attitude and feeling" just before they choked every time before. Nothing has changed. I'm not saying the Eagles aren't good, just like I would never say the Bills in the 90's weren't good, but they are chokers, just as the Bills were.

havokeff wrote: If someone is drinking the Kool-Aide, which apparently is bandwagon flavored, it certainly isn't me.

The only bandwagon I'm on is your mom's Hav, don't you fucking dare accuse me of that.

You are on the bandwagon. You've dropped all the buzz words... new attitude, running game, special feeling blah blah blah. I'm not saying you just jumped on as an Eagles fan, but you are buying the same hype that was there the last four times.

havokeff wrote: So you are saying that I can't say a team is the same as they used to be in citing their loses in big games so I think they will lose again in a big game, and you respond with... This team already beat a team so they will win again? Nice, retard.

But lets play this game any way...

To answer your question, The Cardinals lost.

Allow me to retort.
Baltimore lost to Tennessee in the regular season.
Arizona lost to Carolina in the regular season.
Philadelphia lost to New York in the regular season.
San Diego lost to Indianapolis in the regular season.

Oops there goes your point.

Nice theatrics, but you didn't pay attention to my argument. My argument wasn't that the Eagles simply Beat the Cards on Thanksgiving, they fucking destroyed them. Those 4 games you listed? Lost by a total of 14 points. Thanksgiving? 28.

I am not saying simply because they beat them once they will win, I am however saying the Eagles are on a roll right now and during that streak look what they did to the Cards once already. If I liked playoff systems decided by arbitrary record comparisions, I'd watch college football.

Oh so they won by a lot so they will beat them again? Yeah, still doesn't mean shit. As for a roll, The Cardinals aren't on a roll? Warner is playing great and has actually been to two Super Bowls and won one and lost the other to arguably the best team and QB in the last 15 years. Oh and he didn't choke and knows how to win the big one, which McNabb does not. The defense has stepped up. They went into Carolina's back yard and fucking bitch slapped them, after they went down 7 early, which in the old days would have probably doomed the Cardinals right there. So if you want to talk about a REAL change in culture, attitude and feeling, you need to be talking about Arizona, not the Chokedephia Eagles.

To be terribly honest, I really don't understand the confidence everyone is displaying with the Cardinals. They're obviously not a bad football team, but really people aren't giving the Eagles any credit.

I give the Eagles all the credit they deserve. That includes being the chokemasters of the last decade, and since none of the major components of that title are different, they will stay that way until they prove me wrong. Until that time, I will take the Eagles every week, except for Championship and SuperBowl week.

A-ha! 4-0 this weekend.

And for the Conference Championships:

Baltimore at Pittsburgh
Philadelphia at Arizona

havokeff wrote: Why, because it illustrates their biggest choke?

No, because we had our no. 1 receiver playing against mecial advice, a sick quarterback, oh and a pack of cheaters on the opposite side of the sideline.

havokeff wrote: And history also show that the Eagles will revert to the 90% pass scheme at any given moment, not to mention that Reid has gone run heavy in the past. Again, you are the one drinking the bandwagon flavored kool-aide.

Yeah, like when? He's only done that when he has a 3rd stringer in there.

havokeff wrote: Yeah and they had that same "outlook, attitude and feeling" just before they choked every time before. Nothing has changed. I'm not saying the Eagles aren't good, just like I would never say the Bills in the 90's weren't good, but they are chokers, just as the Bills were.

The New York Mets they are not. You could argue they choked the 2nd to the last game of the season against the Redskins, fair enough. If you're arguing that though, how do explain the absolute ferocity they came out with against Dallas when they were put in the exact same situation?

havokeff wrote: You are on the bandwagon. You've dropped all the buzz words... new attitude, running game, special feeling blah blah blah. I'm not saying you just jumped on as an Eagles fan, but you are buying the same hype that was there the last four times.

The last 4 times? Oh Jesus Christ, Reid has never committed to the run as he has now. "A running game" has never been part of the hype for the past 4 times and if you've heard that I don't know who the fuck you're listening too.

I've watched the Eagles since I learned to walk, I know precisely what I'm talking about when I talk about a new attitude and a special feeling. Unless you've watched the Eagles all season and live here you really just don't understand.

havokeff wrote: Oh so they won by a lot so they will beat them again? Yeah, still doesn't mean shit. As for a roll, The Cardinals aren't on a roll? Warner is playing great and has actually been to two Super Bowls and won one and lost the other to arguably the best team and QB in the last 15 years. Oh and he didn't choke and knows how to win the big one, which McNabb does not. The defense has stepped up. They went into Carolina's back yard and fucking bitch slapped them, after they went down 7 early, which in the old days would have probably doomed the Cardinals right there. So if you want to talk about a REAL change in culture, attitude and feeling, you need to be talking about Arizona, not the Chokedephia Eagles.

Yeah, the Cardinals are on a roll, and they're a perfectly nice story. Yet, they've beaten a rookie QB and a magnificently bad Delhomme. I'm really not impressed that much with their defense seeing as how it was ranked #19 in the regular season. How long are the Cardinals really going to continue to play to that elevated level?

Really, that and Warner hasn't suffered much pressure in the 2 previous games. Lo and behold, he's going after a team that blitzes coming off the bus. That, and the Arizona run game which has been so vaunted over the past few weeks is running up against a defense which has had to contain Adrian Peterson and the Giants trio of running backs.

Additonally, Warner loses to the Patriots and it's all "lol they lost to the best." McNabb loses to the Patriots and it's all "CHOKE ARTIST!" Why is this?

havokeff wrote: I give the Eagles all the credit they deserve. That includes being the chokemasters of the last decade, and since none of the major components of that title are different, they will stay that way until they prove me wrong. Until that time, I will take the Eagles every week, except for Championship and SuperBowl week.

[/quote][/quote]

So, Eagles in the superbowl then?

That NOS Guy wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: 1) The longer week

All of 18 hours headstart, color me unimpressed.

CmdrWilkens wrote: 2) Homefield advantage

That really hasn't been all it's cracked up to be recently, has it?

CmdrWilkens wrote: 3) No need to fly

That's a fair point, but this isn't baseball we're talking about.

CmdrWilkens wrote: 4) All their players should be healthy by then

Dunno, Boldin is a big question mark and that casts a rather large shadow. Eagles are pretty healthy themselves so both squads should be at realtively full strength.

CmdrWilkens wrote: So yeah I'm going with Cardinals over Eagles.

To be terribly honest, I really don't understand the confidence everyone is displaying with the Cardinals. They're obviously not a bad football team, but really people aren't giving the Eagles any credit.

So yeah the longer week isn't huge but its an extra day to get healthy AND combined with no need to have a travel day it means the Cardinals get 2 exra prep days that the Eagles don't have. Homefield may not be nearly so large an advantage as one might hope but in the 1st round both AZ and SD (which were viewed as marginal teams) won at home against opponents that were viewed as being demonstrably superior. So while homefield hasn't been all its cracked up to be there is a strong case that it can help teams in paticualr with the travel situation. Unless I'm correct every team which has had to travel at least 2 time zones has lost over the last few weeks EXCEPT for the Cardinals (Indy lost, Atlanta lost, Baltimore and Philly traveled 0 and 1 time zones; SD lost, Baltimore and Philly traveled 1 and 0 time zones respectively).

Thus if we are just looking at travel distance the fact that Baltimore is playing in Pit and Philly in AZ would suggest that Baltimore and AZ win. The last bit with all of this is the other reason why I distrust the Eagles, many teams limped in but that 10-3 loss to the Redskins just makes me shiver if I'm the Eagles. They didn't know there was a playoff scenario with a loss which meant they should have been playing for their lives and instead they put up a near total stinker. At the same time they made the playoffs with a record every bit as mediocre as Arizona's and filled with just as many miscues and disasters.

OK NOS, since we both know we aren't going to get anywhere but dizzy going in circles, if the Eagles win this week and win the Superbowl and break out of choke status I will concede the argument. If they lose either game, and continue their tradition of choking in the big game, you will concede.

If you would like to make it interesting beside the conceding, maybe we could put our sigs or some such on the line... Like I will use a pro Steelers sig for a certain amount of time and you will use a pro Cowboys sig...

Thank you Tony Dungee, for being an outstanding Defensive coordinator, Head Coach and great role model to the NFL, it's players and fans. You will be missed as you made the NFL that much better to watch and follow.

havokeff wrote:OK NOS, since we both know we aren't going to get anywhere but dizzy going in circles, if the Eagles win this week and win the Superbowl and break out of choke status I will concede the argument. If they lose either game, and continue their tradition of choking in the big game, you will concede.

If you would like to make it interesting beside the conceding, maybe we could put our sigs or some such on the line... Like I will use a pro Steelers sig for a certain amount of time and you will use a pro Cowboys sig...

That's pretty steep, but I like it. I'll shake on it.

That NOS Guy wrote:

havokeff wrote:OK NOS, since we both know we aren't going to get anywhere but dizzy going in circles, if the Eagles win this week and win the Superbowl and break out of choke status I will concede the argument. If they lose either game, and continue their tradition of choking in the big game, you will concede.

If you would like to make it interesting beside the conceding, maybe we could put our sigs or some such on the line... Like I will use a pro Steelers sig for a certain amount of time and you will use a pro Cowboys sig...

That's pretty steep, but I like it. I'll shake on it.

Agreed then. First though, and be honest, you have to use the team you hate most, which I am assuming is the Cowboys, as you are an Eagles fan. That and how long is a reasonable "punishment" time to keep the sigs?

Through February seems fair.

As far as Dungy goes, I'd like him more if he weren't a homophobe.

havokeff wrote: Agreed then. First though, and be honest, you have to use the team you hate most, which I am assuming is the Cowboys, as you are an Eagles fan. That and how long is a reasonable "punishment" time to keep the sigs?

Of course it's the Cowboys! No self-respecting Eagles fan hates any other team more

Anyways, a solid month (31 days) seems reasonable to me.

CmdrWilkens wrote: So yeah the longer week isn't huge but its an extra day to get healthy AND combined with no need to have a travel day it means the Cardinals get 2 exra prep days that the Eagles don't have. Homefield may not be nearly so large an advantage as one might hope but in the 1st round both AZ and SD (which were viewed as marginal teams) won at home against opponents that were viewed as being demonstrably superior. So while homefield hasn't been all its cracked up to be there is a strong case that it can help teams in paticualr with the travel situation. Unless I'm correct every team which has had to travel at least 2 time zones has lost over the last few weeks EXCEPT for the Cardinals (Indy lost, Atlanta lost, Baltimore and Philly traveled 0 and 1 time zones; SD lost, Baltimore and Philly traveled 1 and 0 time zones respectively).

I think you might be reaching a little, but that's actually a pretty good point overall and those are points in the Cards favor. I think the real question is just how much will it cut into the Eagles play. I mean, I'm not going to argue they're the most posied teams (no, I've watched them for far too long) but they're not Matt Ryan led Falcons or playing the Steelers at Heinz Field.

CmdrWilkens wrote: Thus if we are just looking at travel distance the fact that Baltimore is playing in Pit and Philly in AZ would suggest that Baltimore and AZ win. The last bit with all of this is the other reason why I distrust the Eagles, many teams limped in but that 10-3 loss to the Redskins just makes me shiver if I'm the Eagles. They didn't know there was a playoff scenario with a loss which meant they should have been playing for their lives and instead they put up a near total stinker. At the same time they made the playoffs with a record every bit as mediocre as Arizona's and filled with just as many miscues and disasters.

If you're an Eagles fan the game that makes you shiver isn't just the Redskins game, it's the tie to Cincinnati. The Redskins game is sort of counterbalanced by the absolute ass kicking the Cowboys received a mere week later with a playoff berth on the line again. Not that I'm saying the image of Reggie Brown on the 1 as time runs out idoesn't give me the odd shudder.

The thing with the Eagles is they managed all those miscues and disasters in the NFC East as opposed to the Cardinals who won the NFC West by showing up to the field with a pulse. Unless you're going to argue the NFC West is somehow a tough division at all.

Qwerty 42 wrote:As far as Dungy goes, I'd like him more if he weren't a homophobe.

Whoa. Hadn't heard that before. Source?

Although, I shouldn't really be surprised, as he is highly religious and has been involved in football his whole life.

havokeff wrote:Thank you Tony Dungee, for being an outstanding Defensive coordinator, Head Coach and great role model to the NFL, it's players and fans. You will be missed as you made the NFL that much better to watch and follow.

I'll agree to that. The guy was an impressive coach, and by all reports a good man. I've never heard the homophobe stuff, so that could change it.

Also, I'm curious if anyone knows what factors led to his son's suicide. That wouldn't exactly make Dungy look good, because I can see something that he did or didn't do being a huge factor.

Now picks after being 2-2:
Baltimore at Pittsburgh- Can't stand Pittspuke. The Ravens seem to be the real deal, and there's a biiiiig revenge factor here.
Philadelphia at Arizona- I've picked against them most of the year, and they screwed me over. Now I'm picking them with my fingers crossed, hoping they don't screw me again. They're both surprisingly good teams, and I don't particularly like either of them, but I'm going with the Cards.


Also, kinda late, but speaking of Steelers hatred, all I have to say is Immaculate Reception. Case closed.

I'm picking Ravens over Steelers because we've got to get a win over them sometime this season.

And I have to pick Arizona, McNabb might be on a hot streak, but the Cardinals are just so damn plucky...

OI! Hav and NOS - don't think for one second your little exchange is going to drop by the wayside - I read it and fully expect you boogers to become Team X's most VEHEMENT supporter. No little piddly one-liner in the sig, either - we need a full on image banner, superbowl wins, all that shit. Maybe a superimposed image of that team's most famous quarterback. This is awesome; no matter who loses: I WIN!

havokeff wrote:

Qwerty 42 wrote:As far as Dungy goes, I'd like him more if he weren't a homophobe.

Whoa. Hadn't heard that before. Source?

Although, I shouldn't really be surprised, as he is highly religious and has been involved in football his whole life.

I saw an actual news article rather than an Op/Ed on the subject, though I couldn't track down that link. Editorials about it, of course, are abound: http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=4148.

In short, Dungy spent a lot of money in support of the Indiana Family Institute, a notoriously anti-gay lobbyist group, and was honored with being the guest of honor at a fundraiser banquet after the Colts advanced to Super Bowl XLI. Not quite as damning as coming out with "Man, the hell with them gays!" during a press conference, but still not a particularly savory move on the part of Mr. Dungy.

Chardok wrote:OI! Hav and NOS - don't think for one second your little exchange is going to drop by the wayside - I read it and fully expect you boogers to become Team X's most VEHEMENT supporter. No little piddly one-liner in the sig, either - we need a full on image banner, superbowl wins, all that shit. Maybe a superimposed image of that team's most famous quarterback. This is awesome; no matter who loses: I WIN!

If you want to prepare the sigs, go nuts

That NOS Guy wrote:

Chardok wrote:OI! Hav and NOS - don't think for one second your little exchange is going to drop by the wayside - I read it and fully expect you boogers to become Team X's most VEHEMENT supporter. No little piddly one-liner in the sig, either - we need a full on image banner, superbowl wins, all that shit. Maybe a superimposed image of that team's most famous quarterback. This is awesome; no matter who loses: I WIN!

If you want to prepare the sigs, go nuts

If only - My compy is dead dead deadski.

That NOS Guy wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: So yeah the longer week isn't huge but its an extra day to get healthy AND combined with no need to have a travel day it means the Cardinals get 2 exra prep days that the Eagles don't have. Homefield may not be nearly so large an advantage as one might hope but in the 1st round both AZ and SD (which were viewed as marginal teams) won at home against opponents that were viewed as being demonstrably superior. So while homefield hasn't been all its cracked up to be there is a strong case that it can help teams in paticualr with the travel situation. Unless I'm correct every team which has had to travel at least 2 time zones has lost over the last few weeks EXCEPT for the Cardinals (Indy lost, Atlanta lost, Baltimore and Philly traveled 0 and 1 time zones; SD lost, Baltimore and Philly traveled 1 and 0 time zones respectively).

I think you might be reaching a little, but that's actually a pretty good point overall and those are points in the Cards favor. I think the real question is just how much will it cut into the Eagles play. I mean, I'm not going to argue they're the most posied teams (no, I've watched them for far too long) but they're not Matt Ryan led Falcons or playing the Steelers at Heinz Field.

True enough and honestly I'm expecting that its more an odd quirk rather than something which is notable and significant (and I have no desire to look through the past 10 years or so of playoffs and count time zones versus wins). With the Eagles right now I think its mostly two competing truths: They went 5-1 to finish the seaosn plus two solid victories already on the road against the fact that they managed to stumble into a tie against Cinncy, Lost to the Skins on the 1-yard line and couldn't but it in the end zone against Chicago, that is they don't finish. The Steelers, the Ravens, the Titans, those are teams that finish but the Eagles seem to limp to the end of their games.

CmdrWilkens wrote: Thus if we are just looking at travel distance the fact that Baltimore is playing in Pit and Philly in AZ would suggest that Baltimore and AZ win. The last bit with all of this is the other reason why I distrust the Eagles, many teams limped in but that 10-3 loss to the Redskins just makes me shiver if I'm the Eagles. They didn't know there was a playoff scenario with a loss which meant they should have been playing for their lives and instead they put up a near total stinker. At the same time they made the playoffs with a record every bit as mediocre as Arizona's and filled with just as many miscues and disasters.

If you're an Eagles fan the game that makes you shiver isn't just the Redskins game, it's the tie to Cincinnati. The Redskins game is sort of counterbalanced by the absolute ass kicking the Cowboys received a mere week later with a playoff berth on the line again. Not that I'm saying the image of Reggie Brown on the 1 as time runs out idoesn't give me the odd shudder.

The thing with the Eagles is they managed all those miscues and disasters in the NFC East as opposed to the Cardinals who won the NFC West by showing up to the field with a pulse. Unless you're going to argue the NFC West is somehow a tough division at all.

No the Cards definately escaped with the weaker schedule but they also have a VERY impressive win against the Falcons (who came out of one of the two toughest divisions with an 1--5) and then went on the road to beat Caarolina who won that same division. That would seem to indicate they are for real though they could also be last year's Redskins who have a nice run until they hit some tough competition. The Eagles however were getting good just as the NFC East was getting mediocre. I still maintain that it was the 2nd or 3rd toughest division in the league and the fact that no team had a losing record supports that...the problem is the East had a great first half of the year and the Eagles sucked; then the East had a mediocre second half (Dallas playing 500 ball, 'Skins collpasing, Giants limping in to the playoffs) and the Eagles were suddenly good.

Obviously stacked against the embarrasment Arizona was for the last 3-4 weeks anybody would seem to be better than them but if there are valleys then there are also peaks and right now the Cards look to be peaking when it counts.



Oh yes and as a 'Skins fan it would be unacceptable to root for the Eagles

NFL.com headline at the moment: AFC Title Game Will Be Defensive.

No fucking shit. Seriously, is Joe the Plumber a sports-writer as well as a war correspondant now?

In other news today, Scott Pioli will attempt to rebuild Kansas City. Josh McDaniels is in Denver coaching up Mr. Ed. The Patriots will have to pay Tom Brady's kingly wage, alongside Matt Cassel's Franchise tag. Have fun with that, New England The Curse of the Vinateri does its magic, and the rain, it raineth every day...

Troy Polamalu's got a strained calf and Terrell Suggs sprained his right shoulder.

Falkenhayn wrote:In other news today, Scott Pioli will attempt to rebuild Kansas City. Josh McDaniels is in Denver coaching up Mr. Ed. The Patriots will have to pay Tom Brady's kingly wage, alongside Matt Cassel's Franchise tag. Have fun with that, New England The Curse of the Vinateri does its magic, and the rain, it raineth every day...

Troy Polamalu's got a strained calf and Terrell Suggs sprained his right shoulder.

I'll back a pass rush LB with a sprained shoulder over a coverage DB with a sprained calf.

CmdrWilkens wrote: True enough and honestly I'm expecting that its more an odd quirk rather than something which is notable and significant (and I have no desire to look through the past 10 years or so of playoffs and count time zones versus wins). With the Eagles right now I think its mostly two competing truths: They went 5-1 to finish the seaosn plus two solid victories already on the road against the fact that they managed to stumble into a tie against Cinncy, Lost to the Skins on the 1-yard line and couldn't but it in the end zone against Chicago, that is they don't finish. The Steelers, the Ravens, the Titans, those are teams that finish but the Eagles seem to limp to the end of their games.

Yeah, it's funny how that works out. The frustrating thing about the Eagles is they can be maddingly inconsistent and just a flat out tease most of the time. Strictly speaking, if McNabb hadn't been benched earlier this season I would be in full agreement that they'd lose this game. After the Ravens game though, there's just something different there and in the 2 months since the usual Eagles only showed up once (a new record!).

CmdrWilkens wrote: No the Cards definately escaped with the weaker schedule but they also have a VERY impressive win against the Falcons (who came out of one of the two toughest divisions with an 1--5) and then went on the road to beat Caarolina who won that same division. That would seem to indicate they are for real though they could also be last year's Redskins who have a nice run until they hit some tough competition. The Eagles however were getting good just as the NFC East was getting mediocre. I still maintain that it was the 2nd or 3rd toughest division in the league and the fact that no team had a losing record supports that...the problem is the East had a great first half of the year and the Eagles sucked; then the East had a mediocre second half (Dallas playing 500 ball, 'Skins collpasing, Giants limping in to the playoffs) and the Eagles were suddenly good.

Obviously stacked against the embarrasment Arizona was for the last 3-4 weeks anybody would seem to be better than them but if there are valleys then there are also peaks and right now the Cards look to be peaking when it counts.

We can all say what we want about the East running out of gas, but it's still a very tough division even when it's having a rough time of it. That said, the NFC South is no slouch either and the Cards definately get credit for knocking off two teams from it. I just don't know if the Cards have faced a seriously tough defense at this point, and that's what's keeping me from handing this to them. While Warner is great at reading blitzes it's not like he faced tough secondary or even faced much pressure at all. The Cardinals new running game is great, but how is it going to last against a run stopping team like the Eagles? I really do think the Eagles defense is what's going to bring them victory in this game, and I haven't seen anything that says the Cardinals can romp over a defense of that caliber.

CmdrWilkens wrote: Oh yes and as a 'Skins fan it would be unacceptable to root for the Eagles

That's to be expected.