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Patrick Degan wrote:

Kane Starkiller wrote:The new Star Trek should've used the red uniforms from ST2-ST6 series as a base rather than redoing those from the 60s.

The better uniforms in that movie were the ones worn by the Kelvin crew —sharper cut, a nice blend of styles from all three eras, and somewhat harkened back to the simpler schemes (USAF blue and khaki) from the first two TOS pilots.

I also enjoyed the Kelvin uniforms. I'm betting that they'll stay with the current uniforms for the sequel, but transition into a modification of the TWOK-era style in the third movie.

I also hope we get to see a more diverse crew. With the Enterprise being significantly larger, I'd like to see more enlisted crewmen. Although this is probably wishful thinking, I'd also love to see Federation "Marines", with a command structure similar to the one alluded to by Colonel West in ST6.

If all of the Feddie ships were tightly clustered together, Nero could have just missile spammed the lead ships. The ensuing explosions would have flung giant chunks of flaming wreckage, making short work of the surrounding ships. (Disclaimer: this idea may or may not have been postulated in earlier pages.)

This has already been spoken to, there is no reason Nero should have know exactly where the ships would come out, and there is no reason that spot should be coincident with the exact spot Nero was tethered to while drilling.

In any case, stealing plot points from Wing Commander does not exactly speak to the intelligence of the writers.

Patroklos wrote:

If all of the Feddie ships were tightly clustered together, Nero could have just missile spammed the lead ships. The ensuing explosions would have flung giant chunks of flaming wreckage, making short work of the surrounding ships. (Disclaimer: this idea may or may not have been postulated in earlier pages.)

This has already been spoken to, there is no reason Nero should have know exactly where the ships would come out, and there is no reason that spot should be coincident with the exact spot Nero was tethered to while drilling.

In any case, stealing plot points from Wing Commander does not exactly speak to the intelligence of the writers.

I thought there was a line when the Enterprise was coming in, to indicate that Nero's ship detected the inbound. I had the impression that they had FTL sensor abilities, which is why the Enterprise had to return to the Sol system near Saturn.

It better have given them massive lead times; Narada was fucking miles from the arrival point and her missiles are slow as shit.

I thought there was a line when the Enterprise was coming in, to indicate that Nero's ship detected the inbound. I had the impression that they had FTL sensor abilities, which is why the Enterprise had to return to the Sol system near Saturn.

The Enterprise had FTL sensor abilities too. Regardless, the "natural disaster" was already underway before the Enterprise even left the station, the Narada was already drilling long before any such data could have been collected.

Patroklos wrote:

I thought there was a line when the Enterprise was coming in, to indicate that Nero's ship detected the inbound. I had the impression that they had FTL sensor abilities, which is why the Enterprise had to return to the Sol system near Saturn.

The Enterprise had FTL sensor abilities too. Regardless, the "natural disaster" was already underway before the Enterprise even left the station, the Narada was already drilling long before any such data could have been collected.

Unless, of course, a distress call was sent from Vulcan before Narada started jamming. If they actually had FTL sensor abilities which propagated faster than their own ship, then they should have known that something rather strange was going on, and not a "natural disaster". An entire battle raged in front of them in which their whole flotilla was completely destroyed, and they had no idea.

Patroklos wrote:

I thought there was a line when the Enterprise was coming in, to indicate that Nero's ship detected the inbound. I had the impression that they had FTL sensor abilities, which is why the Enterprise had to return to the Sol system near Saturn.

The Enterprise had FTL sensor abilities too. Regardless, the "natural disaster" was already underway before the Enterprise even left the station, the Narada was already drilling long before any such data could have been collected.

I was referring to Romulan Flunkie #3 saying a line with something like "We're detecting a ship in warp", which does not mean they necessarilly can see a non-warping object, such as Narada drilling Vulcan.

I always thought that the seismic disaster rationalization was complete bullshit anyways. I mean, Vulcan had time to realize that they were experiencing tectonic activity and send out a distress call, but they completely failed to notice the eight kilometer long doomship in their atmosphere blasting the planet with a giant laser beam?

Also, starfleet dispatches their entire reserve force but somehow forgets to mention that forty-seven klingon warships just got wasted by romulans, What the fuck?

Everything about the arrival sequence seems contrived to allow Kirk to rush up to the bridge and warn pike about information that he logically should have already had.

Darksider wrote:I always thought that the seismic disaster rationalization was complete bullshit anyways. I mean, Vulcan had time to realize that they were experiencing tectonic activity and send out a distress call, but they completely failed to notice the eight kilometer long doomship in their atmosphere blasting the planet with a giant laser beam?

Also, starfleet dispatches their entire reserve force but somehow forgets to mention that forty-seven klingon warships just got wasted by romulans, What the fuck?

Everything about the arrival sequence seems contrived to allow Kirk to rush up to the bridge and warn pike about information that he logically should have already had.

Precisely. That's the opinion I've had since I saw the movie. The film gets away with it because the audience is laughing at Kirk's slapstick drooling, stumbling, and comically swollen hands.

The best music from the movie isn't in the movie. It's in one of the trailers and apparently not available anywhere to download (and not even on the soundtrack release).

Pity.

Darth Wong wrote: Precisely. That's the opinion I've had since I saw the movie. The film gets away with it because the audience is laughing at Kirk's slapstick drooling, stumbling, and comically swollen hands.

Personally I think it would've been funnier if he'd rushed on to the bridge in a vaccine-induced dilirium ranting about how vulcan was under attack and pike looks at him and just goes "well duh. What the fuck do you think we're doing out here? You honestly don't think the Federation would dispatch it's entire reserve fleet to deal with an earthquake, do you?"

Going back to the score, I don't envy Giacchino for having to go up agianst Courage, Goldsmith, Horner, and the past Trek composers either. It was, to me, an average if workable score from Giacchino, but my favorite score for the films will remain TUC.

Darth Wong wrote:

Darksider wrote:I always thought that the seismic disaster rationalization was complete bullshit anyways. I mean, Vulcan had time to realize that they were experiencing tectonic activity and send out a distress call, but they completely failed to notice the eight kilometer long doomship in their atmosphere blasting the planet with a giant laser beam?

Also, starfleet dispatches their entire reserve force but somehow forgets to mention that forty-seven klingon warships just got wasted by romulans, What the fuck?

Everything about the arrival sequence seems contrived to allow Kirk to rush up to the bridge and warn pike about information that he logically should have already had.

Precisely. That's the opinion I've had since I saw the movie. The film gets away with it because the audience is laughing at Kirk's slapstick drooling, stumbling, and comically swollen hands.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that Nero would jam the Vulcan communications and then broadcast a fake distress signal; however, that's a level of rationalization to which the audience should not need to stoop.

erik_t wrote: It doesn't seem unreasonable that Nero would jam the Vulcan communications and then broadcast a fake distress signal; however, that's a level of rationalization to which the audience should not need to stoop.

Yeah, but that goes back to what I said earlier in the thread: There are no comms stations elsewhere in the Vulcan system that can broadcast a more detailed distress signal?

Or for that matter, does the "Second Planet" of the Federation not have enough merchant traffic that one or two(or three, or four) got out of town/arrive, noticed bigass ship, left and sent a seperate distress call? Different from the "fake distress signal"?

I don't disagree. As I said, it's painful rationalization.

Lonestar wrote:

erik_t wrote: It doesn't seem unreasonable that Nero would jam the Vulcan communications and then broadcast a fake distress signal; however, that's a level of rationalization to which the audience should not need to stoop.

Yeah, but that goes back to what I said earlier in the thread: There are no comms stations elsewhere in the Vulcan system that can broadcast a more detailed distress signal?

Or for that matter, does the "Second Planet" of the Federation not have enough merchant traffic that one or two(or three, or four) got out of town/arrive, noticed bigass ship, left and sent a seperate distress call? Different from the "fake distress signal"?

Come on, you're not rationalizing hard enough yet!

Clearly, Nero took out all of the comm stations on the way in, cloaking before each attack so that they didn't have time to get off a warning(next up on Ridiculous Authorial Bail-out Theater, a painful rationalization of why we didn't actually see him using the cloak in the film, and why he couldn't use it to waltz past Earth's defenses). The only surviving installation was a forgotten automated ground seismic survey station, which happened to have its own subspace transmitter, and got a brief signal off before the jamming reached full strength.

The Vulcans are extremely logical, and have one clearly delineated arrival point for anyone entering the system. Nero obviously positioned himself so that he could waste anything that came in in that spot immediately , and it was pure luck that the wreckage of the rest of the task force and assorted merchants screened the Enterprise's arrival.

Come on, this is easy street, give me something Nemesis-worthy to tortuously make up bullshit to cover.