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It would have been more interesting if Starkiller would travel to an enemy's solar system and drain off its star - instead of an instant death, you're beloved planet will now slowly freeze to death or drift away... that'd be one hell of a psychological weapon.

Gandalf wrote:

Patroklos wrote:Destroying planets over intersteller distances is irrelevant. There is no advantage at the likely costs used to achieve it. I guess you could say it would allow you to avoid repeating common design flaws... Oh. Well, maybe it will keep a dozen odd starfighters from blowing you up by not exposing yourself... Oh.

Its like me, here and now, spending 100000 gatrillion dollars to develop a technology that opens wormholes you can talk to someone through in real time on the other side of the world. While I have a cell phone in my pocket. Is the wormhole transmission quicker? Yeah. Is my cellphone? No. Is the difference relevant? No. Does that make the wormhole worth the investment? No.

On top of it, just like with building a wormhole, being able to tap a star/collect and compress its mass in less volume than our moon/use the entire stored energy of said star in 20 minutes or so is so bewildering an achievement all its own who gives the fuck about cell phones/blowing up planets? The First order are essentially god beings at this point, even by SW standards.

Starkiller is a solution in search of a problem. Then when if found a problem, it is one that was already solved by a far simpler means before, and probably could have been solved in another thousand different ways beyond that with hundredths of a percentage point of the effort put into Starkiller.

Is it ever explained how the Resistance found the Starkiller Base? I assumed that the whole point of such a thing would be that you could park it anywhere in the galaxy and fire it at any other point for maximum terror weapon points.

Since it fired a visible beam, couldn't they just track the shot back to its point of origin?

Also, they mention sending a scout ship in the film (and as I recall, backtracking the Resistance's scout ship is how the First Order finds their base).

Plus they had access to any inside information Finn had.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Since it fired a visible beam, couldn't they just track the shot back to its point of origin?

We see it consume two stars in the film, so I assume it can move.

Also, they mention sending a scout ship in the film (and as I recall, backtracking the Resistance's scout ship is how the First Order finds their base).

Plus they had access to any inside information Finn had.

Makes sense. Cheers.

Gandalf wrote: Is it ever explained how the Resistance found the Starkiller Base? I assumed that the whole point of such a thing would be that you could park it anywhere in the galaxy and fire it at any other point for maximum terror weapon points.

No, not that I remember. There recon ship just magically knows exactly where to go. Because, you know, reconning the third iteration of the Death Star x100000000 which also happens to be the base of your sworn enemy didn't seem important until they destroyed a planet supposedly so critically important to them but which they never bother to mention themselves.

Has anyone mentioned what a dick Finn was (besides murdering his commrades he was crying over one scene earlier)? He lets the Rebels attack Starkiller knowing the only way they could get in is if he fullfilled the mission he couldn't accomplish. In Finns mind, when he leaves the Rebel base, he knows and expects the Rebels will fail and probably die in the attempt and their effort is a futile waste. As far as he knows he is guaranteeing the destruction of the First Orders only remaining enemy. This is one of our heros.

Gandalf wrote: We see it consume two stars in the film, so I assume it can move.

Tracking a ship along its last known trajectory is possible (TESB, Imperial fleet hunting the Falcon) so this is presumably how they found it. It can move, of course (this is confirmed and it'd be fucking dumb if it couldn't) but it clearly didn't - given what happened the firing pattern must be:

- Charge (extinguish star)
- Jump to new system
- Fire
- Charge (extinguish star)
- Jump to new system

And repeat.

Patroklos wrote:

Gandalf wrote: Is it ever explained how the Resistance found the Starkiller Base? I assumed that the whole point of such a thing would be that you could park it anywhere in the galaxy and fire it at any other point for maximum terror weapon points.

No, not that I remember. There recon ship just magically knows exactly where to go. Because, you know, reconning the third iteration of the Death Star x100000000 which also happens to be the base of your sworn enemy didn't seem important until they destroyed a planet supposedly so critically important to them but which they never bother to mention themselves.

Did it occur to you that maybe its not easy to hide a planet-sized base that sucks stars dry and fires visible beams across interstellar space? Its a planet-sized strategic/terror weapon, not a stealth bomber.

Besides, its clear the fighting's been going on for a while in the film. They could have done previous recon./espionage to locate it before hand. Do they need to show and spell out every bit of background stuff for your pea brain to accept it?

But you didn't like it, so its okay to lie, right? At least by the reasoning of rabid fans with an ax to grind.

Also, there's actually no confirmation in the film, as far as I recall, that Starkiller Base can move at all.

Has anyone mentioned what a dick Finn was (besides murdering his commrades he was crying over one scene earlier)?

More than one scene. And they were trying to kill him. I'm sure he would have taken the option of walking away peacefully if it had been open to him (it isn't until Rey is taken that he actually seeks out a fight with the First Order).

Actually, I think Finn is probably the most balanced/well-rounded character in the film. He's capable, but still has weaknesses and isn't as absurdly powerful as Rey. He has good intentions, but also serious character flaws. Some of the humour was off-putting to me, and he seemed to fit in to life outside the First Order a little quickly for someone who was raised as a brainwashed child soldier, but I still think he is arguably the film's best written character.

He lets the Rebels attack Starkiller knowing the only way they could get in is if he fullfilled the mission he couldn't accomplish. In Finns mind, when he leaves the Rebel base, he knows and expects the Rebels will fail and probably die in the attempt and their effort is a futile waste. As far as he knows he is guaranteeing the destruction of the First Orders only remaining enemy. This is one of our heros.

You are making claims about the characters thought process not verified by the film.

The Resistance pretty much had to attack Starkiller base, because it was a do or die situation. Presuming that thing could hit anywhere in the galaxy, it was literally impossible for any faction that wasn't the First Order to safely hold territory in the galaxy as long as it existed. So I think they would have done it with out without Finn.

And as it turned out, Finn was able to figure out a way to get the shield down.

But its worth remembering that Finn believed for much of the film that the First Order couldn't be beaten, which given his past is understandable. So in his mind, maybe it didn't make a difference weather he brought down the shield or not.

The Romulan Republic wrote: Also, there's actually no confirmation in the film, as far as I recall, that Starkiller Base can move at all.

There isn't, but its been confirmed outside the film. Not to mention it would have to move or else it'd only ever be able to fire once.

Sigh... that seems like something significant enough it should have been in the film One of many holes.

Although, I was thinking that perhaps it could draw material from stars over interstellar distances (it can fire over interstellar distances, after all).

The Romulan Republic wrote:Sigh... that seems like something significant enough it should have been in the film One of many holes.

Although, I was thinking that perhaps it could draw material from stars over interstellar distances (it can fire over interstellar distances, after all).

Yeah, on the other hand there are still people who don't realise the Death Star has hyperdrive simply becuase they never saw it jump.

Well, their are apparently people who still believe the world is flat, so...

Look hard enough, and you can find someone who is oblivious too or in denial of almost anything.

That does sorta bring up another flaw though. Why not simply move it after the first firing? If it was moved after the first firing then we're supposed to believe the Resistance found it in a matter of hours? The galaxy must have a million stars in uninhabited galaxies you could hide out in.

If they sent a scout ship as soon as it fired (revealing its location if the Resistance didn't already know), they could have maybe tracked it when it departed.

The Romulan Republic wrote: Did it occur to you that maybe its not easy to hide a planet-sized base that sucks stars dry and fires visible beams across interstellar space? Its a planet-sized strategic/terror weapon, not a stealth bomber.

Besides, its clear the fighting's been going on for a while in the film. They could have done previous recon./espionage to locate it before hand. Do they need to show and spell out every bit of background stuff for your pea brain to accept it?

But you didn't like it, so its okay to lie, right? At least by the reasoning of rabid fans with an ax to grind.

Also, there's actually no confirmation in the film, as far as I recall, that Starkiller Base can move at all.

Obliviously the Rebels knew where it was because the movie tells us they made a recon flight there. They couldn't do that if they didn't know where it was.

So, AGREEING WITH YOU THEY MUST HAVE KNOWN ALL ALONG, because nobody on the good guy side we see outside the Rebels could have know where it was, one has to ask why the Rebels didn't seem to give a shit about it before hand, as evidenced by how trivially they conducted said recon flight.

More than one scene. And they were trying to kill him. I'm sure he would have taken the option of walking away peacefully if it had been open to him (it isn't until Rey is taken that he actually seeks out a fight with the First Order).

His desertion, before any civilian killing was involved, was prompted by the death of his comrade. A guy just like all the dudes we see him waste with abandon ten minutes later. In fact, we don't even know if he would have refused to kill those civilians had he not seen someone he cared about killed. That's some cold blooded shit right there. Its like if Bergdahl had murdered 20 of his squad mates before walking off post.

Does that jive with the bumbling can't-do-anything-right comic relief character we see (and I like) in every other scene?

You are making claims about the characters thought process not verified by the film.

I didn't say anything about his thought process, I told you what he knew and when. If I were commenting on his thought process I would have pointed out that he intended to sacrifice the Rebels so he could mount a rescue mission for Rey. Which he of course confirms himself to Han. What exactly are you objecting to again?

The Resistance pretty much had to attack Starkiller base, because it was a do or die situation. Presuming that thing could hit anywhere in the galaxy, it was literally impossible for any faction that wasn't the First Order to safely hold territory in the galaxy as long as it existed. So I think they would have done it with out without Finn.

They would have done it with no plan to take down the shield generator? What would that accomplish.

The Rebels have attacked superweapons with some pretty long odds before, but never with no plan to prosecute it successfully. Hitting the exhaust port proved pretty damned hard, but in theory it was a legitimate weakness even without the force (the DS crew calls out the vulnderabilty as legit, not knowing anything about the possibility of a force user pilot).

In ROTJ they send the strike force to the Endor to drop the shield. It wasn't a sure thing, but it was a viable plan should things go their way.

TFA makes it clear they are relying on Finn to take down the shield. They have a whole dialogue chain to establish this, and then make the point of telling us its a big deal when Finn has to tell Han he lied can't do it. Han improvises to save the day, but he wasn't supposed to have to do that. What if Phasma took an extra minute on the shitter and never ran into our do gooders?

The point is the Rebels made a plan, and took a course of action, based on the risk mitigation they believed was legitimate. Had Finn said nothing their course of action would have been different. Maybe they would have retreated. Maybe there was a plan B or a plan C they could have attacked with instead that was also somewhat viable for different reasons but chose against them because of what Finn said. Either way, Finn knew he was intentionally leading the Rebels on a course of action that if it had proceeded as he expected would have lead to all of their deaths. Thats being a dick.

And as it turned out, Finn was able to figure out a way to get the shield down.

Han did that. And if the plan was "randomly walk around compound and hope we run into a treasonous coward to do it for us" do you think that would be a good basis to mount an all or nothing attack on?

The Rebels, faced with no viable plan of attack, could have just escaped. They had this situation at Hoth, and they didn't stand and fight for no reason. Finn fucked them, and it was a horribly short sighted and selfish thing for him to do.

But its worth remembering that Finn believed for much of the film that the First Order couldn't be beaten, which given his past is understandable. So in his mind, maybe it didn't make a difference weather he brought down the shield or not.

[/quote]

That just proves my point. He knew, from his perspective, that he was sending the Rebels to their death for no good reason other than to get himself a ride.

Gandalf wrote: Is it ever explained how the Resistance found the Starkiller Base? I assumed that the whole point of such a thing would be that you could park it anywhere in the galaxy and fire it at any other point for maximum terror weapon points.

If only they had some kind of defector who had worked there and knew where it was...

Patroklos wrote:Destroying planets over intersteller distances is irrelevant. There is no advantage at the likely costs used to achieve it.

I disagree. There is a massive advantage to a weapon that can apparently destroy not just a planet but the fleet parked above it from a distance at which your enemy can not effectively respond until it is too late. Especially if your enemy is foolish enough to concentrate his forces. What you are saying is that there is no advantage in having an ICBM because it costs a lot.

And that's another thing. The SKB is clearly not a terror weapon. It's a strategic one. It's whole reason for existence is or was to perform that one strike and cripple the NR in the early stages. Any shot after that is in my opinion just a bonus feature because that first shot already did all it had to. The NO still has it's fleets. The NR does not. Any war lead now, and a war is inevitable once you nuke an enemies capital is going to be hugely one sided. Which is why I see the KSB as the equivalent to an ICBM.

Vympel wrote:How is it a consistent feature? I don't recall this issue ever being touched upon in TESB. How do you even know the Hoth theatre shield touches the ground? You don't.

The point I'm making is that the rules you think they established are actually assumptions you've made up. For example, you assume the rebel's Hoth shield is the same as the Gungan shield. Except the Hoth shield isn't visible. So why are you assuming they work in the same fashion?

I do not know if the shield on Hoth is exactly the same as the one in TPM, but I do know that they have similar characteristics:

- In TPM, you could walk through the shield, but not fly through it
- In ESB, you couldn't fly through the shield, but you could walk through - or you could walk under the shield. But I think the latter is not very probable, because the shield basically behaved the same way than in TPM.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

What is your reason to believe they were different at all? We've seen planetary shields and theatre shields in the movies, why do you believe there is a third one we haven't seen used at Hoth?

I'd say occam's razor is with me here.

Vympel wrote:Planetary shields have never existed in the films before in any sense. So no, its not inconsistent at all. I think a more honest thing to say is that you don't like it. Which is perfectly valid (I don't like it either), but not an inconsistency.

In ROJ, the Death Star was surrounded by a planetary shield. So please don't tell me I haven't seen one.

Also, they actually had to disable the shield before they could attack the Death Star. Nobody seemed to have thought it is possible to jump through it, including Han.

Otherwise the Rebels could have jumped through the shield, destroy the shield generator and then attack.

Yes, we've already established that you think the prequel's procession of blink-and-you'll-miss-them empty-suit stooges are better written than Kylo Ren. It is an excellent commentary on your taste, nothing more.

At least the villains in the PT seemed to be competent. Kylo Ren is just an annoying brat, Darth Maul and Count Dooku would have no problems with him in a fight, I'd say.

BabelHuber wrote: I do not know if the shield on Hoth is exactly the same as the one in TPM, but I do know that they have similar characteristics:

- In TPM, you could walk through the shield, but not fly through it
- In ESB, you couldn't fly through the shield, but you could walk through - or you could walk under the shield. But I think the latter is not very probable, because the shield basically behaved the same way than in TPM.

That's a circular argument, and blatantly so. Its also wrong. You in fact have no evidence whatsoever that the shield 'behaved the same way as in TPM'. There's in fact no similarity evident at all. The Gungan shield protects a very localized area, the Hoth shield protects a much larger area (by definition, or the AT-ATs would've landed closer). The Gungan shield is visible - bright blue - and is projected by localized generators mounted on pack animals, and the Hoth shield is invisible and requires an enormous power generator (with no visible projectors shooting up energy into the sky). So how the hell did they behave the same way in any relevant particular?

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

Except for the fact that they're entirely different in every single specification, as recounted above. Your only basis for saying they behave in the same fashion is assuming that the Imperial army walked through it, but that's all it is - an assumption.

EDIT: the Phantom Menace novelization also speaks against your argument. It tells us the Gungan battlefield shield could stop large, slow objects - like vehicles - or small, fast objects, like weapons fire. But it could do nothing against slow, small objects - like individual battle droids. An AT-AT is many things, but small it is not.

What is your reason to believe they were different at all? We've seen planetary shields and theatre shields in the movies, why do you believe there is a third one we haven't seen used at Hoth?

Because it is very different in every single way we can observe or infer.

I'd say occam's razor is with me here.

It really isn't. Leaving aside how blatantly wrong you are on saying they behaved in a similar fashion, there are many, many different types of shield technology evident in the films. For example:

- the Gungan battlefield shield;
- the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship's invisible shield in TPM;
- the visible shield over the hangar bay of the Invisible Hand in RotS;
- the 'ray shields' that stopped Obi-Wan, Anakin and Palpatine cold on the Invisible Hand in RotS;
- the Death Star's outer shields, which could stop planetary debris from damaging it and a large scale attack, but was permeable by fighters flying slow enough (note they accelerate to attack speed only after they pass through);
- the ray shields protecting the thermal exhaust port on the Death Star; and
- the Death Star II's Endor shield, which could not be penetrated.

That's six different types of shield just from the films. TCW adds more.

In ROJ, the Death Star was surrounded by a planetary shield. So please don't tell me I haven't seen one.

I'm sorry, the Death Star is the size of a planet? Since when?

Also, they actually had to disable the shield before they could attack the Death Star. Nobody seemed to have thought it is possible to jump through it, including Han.

Probably because you couldn't.

At least the villains in the PT seemed to be competent. Kylo Ren is just an annoying brat, Darth Maul and Count Dooku would have no problems with him in a fight, I'd say.

They'd have problems maintaining the audience's interest for more than a few fleeting minutes at a time, which is far more important.

And let's face it, Count Dooku's biggest achievement in the films was being played by Chistopher Lee.

Vympel wrote:That's a circular argument, and blatantly so. Its also wrong. You in fact have no evidence whatsoever that the shield 'behaved the same way as in TPM'. There's in fact no similarity evident at all. The Gungan shield protects a very localized area, the Hoth shield protects a much larger area (by definition, or the AT-ATs would've landed closer). The Gungan shield is visible - bright blue - and is projected by localized generators mounted on pack animals, and the Hoth shield is invisible and requires an enormous power generator (with no visible projectors shooting up energy into the sky). So how the hell did they behave the same way in any relevant particular?

We see visible and invisible shields in SW - why is this so? Are shields made visible on purpose (like when some odor is put into dangerous gases)? Or are there different kinds of shields?

You can't fly through the shields, but you can walk through/ under them? is this not enough to proof that there are similarities? What else would be needed?

Except for the fact that they're entirely different in every single specification, as recounted above. Your only basis for saying they behave in the same fashion is assuming that the Imperial army walked through it, but that's all it is - an assumption.

In every single specification? You can't fly through the shields, but you can walk through/ under them. One was visible, the other not, and we don't know why.

But what I do know is that the AT-ATs were landed beyond the shield, and had to walk through/ under it to get to the rebel's base. Otherwise using AT-ATs would be pointless.

So it's either a theatre shield or an 'umbrella'-shield, but the latter begs the question why Vader didn't just use some low-flying Tie Fighters to destroy the shield generator...

Vympel wrote:EDIT: the Phantom Menace novelization also speaks against your argument. It tells us the Gungan battlefield shield could stop large, slow objects - like vehicles - or small, fast objects, like weapons fire. But it could do nothing against slow, small objects - like individual battle droids. An AT-AT is many things, but small it is not.

But perhaps small compared to the bigger shield? Otherwise Tie Fighters could be used, unless the umbrealla was just big enough to let the AT-ATs through...

Vympel wrote:It really isn't. Leaving aside how blatantly wrong you are on saying they behaved in a similar fashion, there are many, many different types of shield technology evident in the films. For example:

- the Gungan battlefield shield;
- the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship's invisible shield in TPM;
- the visible shield over the hangar bay of the Invisible Hand in RotS;
- the 'ray shields' that stopped Obi-Wan, Anakin and Palpatine cold on the Invisible Hand in RotS;
- the Death Star's outer shields, which could stop planetary debris from damaging it and a large scale attack, but was permeable by fighters flying slow enough (note they accelerate to attack speed only after they pass through);
- the ray shields protecting the thermal exhaust port on the Death Star; and
- the Death Star II's Endor shield, which could not be penetrated.

That's six different types of shield just from the films. TCW adds more.

Conceded. But still, the Hoth shield can only be an umbrella-type or a theatre-type shield. And since we never have seen an umbrella-type...

I'm sorry, the Death Star is the size of a planet? Since when?

I had this wrong in mind - I thought the shield encircled Endor, too. But this wasn't the case:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/sta ... 0404034405

Probably because you couldn't.

But Starkiller Base had some shitty shield where this is possible? So they spent a huge amount of ressources to create the superweapon, but then saved money when installing the shield? Now this makes sense!

They'd have problems maintaining the audience's interest for more than a few fleeting minutes at a time, which is far more important.

So it would have been impossible to make a good movie without a pathetic villain?

BabelHuber wrote:So it would have been impossible to make a good movie without a pathetic villain?

Yes BabelHuber, that's exactly what everyone is saying. We all think good movies can only have pathetic villains. You understand the point exactly.

Anyway, nobody cares how "competent" a villain is if the villain sucks. It's trivial to make a "competent" "powered up" villain. I just invented one. His name is Darth Motherfucker and he can destroy the entire galaxy by snapping his fingers. Nobody cares.

The point is, the Prequel villains were one dimensional, zero-personality nobodies. Darth Maul was literally just a hired acrobat/martial-artist. Dooku could have amounted to something - Christopher Lee is great, and the idea of an aristocratic ex-Jedi gone bad is cool. It's just that Dooku had like no scenes - and he also had no personal connection to the main characters. Anakin and Obi Wan just chase after him and then fight him... but they like literally just met him two seconds ago.

Grievous... again, could have been good. He could have been the Jabba the Hutt of RoTS - a third-tier villain who the heros defeat in the first act. Except he was basically just a stupid cartoon. Seriously he pulls out 4 lightsabers and starts spinning them like propellers. I think then Megatron showed up or something, and then Grievous and Optimus Prime got into an epic CGI battle where lots of shit exploded - but I missed most of it because I was browsing SDN on my smartphone because that was actually more interesting.

At least Jabba the Hutt was sort of built up as the movies went by. You hear about him in Ep 4 and 5 - they establish his reputation as a criminal to be feared. But again, Grievous comes out of nowhere, has no emotional connection to the characters, etc. etc.

Compared to these idiots, Ren may as well have been written by Shakespeare.

When the point of the villain is to invoke pathos (for an example: A troubled youth wrestling with the conscience he believes is "weakness"), him being pathetic is rather the point...

I will say that Dooku and Grievous might have had more impact if they'd actually appeared in TPM. That is, if we had actually seen Dooku while he was still a Jedi Master and if Lucas had written Grievous in as the commanding general of the Trade Federation's forces at Naboo, we might have actually cared when we finally saw them get their comeuppance.

In contrast, whatever Kylo Ren's fate is, it should be something that will have some emotional impact when we finally see it. Hell, even General Hux and Captain Phasma should give us a sense of satisfaction when we see them get theirs.

Channel72 wrote:It's trivial to make a "competent" "powered up" villain. I just invented one. His name is Darth Motherfucker and he can destroy the entire galaxy by snapping his fingers. Nobody cares.

That sounds so cool.

Channel72 wrote:Dooku could have amounted to something - Christopher Lee is great, and the idea of an aristocratic ex-Jedi gone bad is cool. It's just that Dooku had like no scenes - and he also had no personal connection to the main characters. Anakin and Obi Wan just chase after him and then fight him... but they like literally just met him two seconds ago.

Does not seem to be true: Dooku has quite a bit of screen time in AotC, and I feel that movie gets too much hate for Anakin so that people actually forget Lee's great performance. He talks to Obi-Wan, very convincingly, about how Sith control the Senate, and he seems to have some concept of honour, even as he fights the Jedi in the arena, Obi-Wan and Anakin and finally Yoda - who is revealed to be his teacher, exposing the Jedi "Masters" as crappy teachers whose pupils fall to the Dark Side, btw.

Channel72 wrote:Compared to these idiots, Ren may as well have been written by Shakespeare.

Darth Emo gets more screen time than Dooku, who has zero relationship to the main characters and is only tangentially related to Yoda (his apprentice). And yet... Dooku's death in RotS is an emotional moment, while it was hard for me to care for Darth Emo's internal suffering even one little bit. The revelation that he was Han Solo's son somehow made him even more loathesome and silly. It didn't make me care more about his fate - or that of his new "master", heh.

I just saw this movie, and all my worst fears came true. I'd managed to stay relatively clear of any SW discussion until I'd seen the movie, so I didn't really know how the fans felt about it. I'm horrified that this movie gets so much praise, from fans no less. I'm with Elfdart and Shep, this movie hovers at the level of the Holiday Special.

K. A. Pital wrote: Does not seem to be true: Dooku has quite a bit of screen time in AotC, and I feel that movie gets too much hate for Anakin so that people actually forget Lee's great performance. He talks to Obi-Wan, very convincingly, about how Sith control the Senate, and he seems to have some concept of honour, even as he fights the Jedi in the arena, Obi-Wan and Anakin and finally Yoda - who is revealed to be his teacher, exposing the Jedi "Masters" as crappy teachers whose pupils fall to the Dark Side, btw.

I really wish Dooku had been made a more prominent character in the PT. Besides the fact that more Christopher Lee is NEVER a bad thing, for the reasons you say he was a really compelling character. The other Dark Side characters are portrayed either as emotionally unbalanced or pure evil like Palpatine. Dooku was a different and interesting take on the Dark Side: he wasn't power hungry or insane, he was a man of honor more than anything else. Though you may argue that he was simply a pawn of Palpatine.