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Hokay. That works perfectly for what I'm plotting out right now.Steve wrote:If you really want. Keep in mind that the UN is the mod hammer state and that its interaction with other players will be low-key unless we mods feel the need to use it for something.
I second this motion. Hell, I don't even mind Steve getting 30 points, since this game is almost entirely his working and he's been going through the lion's share of responsibility on the game so far, but with 5 guys who have an 8 point lead on my territories makes me a lot more unwilling to actually get engaged in things like war and diplomacy. And, like Siege says, it isn't that I don't trust everyone who has those point advantages to not be enormous dicks about it, but it smacks of a lot of unfairness when in SNDW3, the mods didn't have a point advantage and that worked out perfectly well.Siege wrote:I'm sorry, but I have to object to there being five--five!--30 NCP moderator states around. I didn't mind when it was just Steve, after all he put a lot of time and effort into getting this game going and it would just be one nation among many. But five?! That's far too great a number of nations given a significanty larger number of points than the rest of the players--and for no readily apparent reason either; after all the UN is the designated NPC mod-hammer, the states the moderators themselves RP as are not supposed to function in this way.
Mind you it's not that I don't trust Rogue, Wilkens, Steve, Shady and Fin, it's that I think no good reason has been provided why all moderators should be handed such a frankly unfair point advantage. Why are they getting this bonus when nobody else does?
Siege wrote:<snip>
Indeed. I was under the impression that the UN should be the mod sock puppet state, like Admiral Kanos is Darth Wong's Administrative account.Akhlut wrote:<snip>
Code: Select all
[b]The Emissaries of the XylyX[/b]
Central Processing: CC1
Home Sector + 3 GDP boost + 2 Population boost (5 points)
GDP: $23,000
Population: 90 billion population units
Warp gate, Hyperspace Junction
System Defenses: Overall: $11,500 Defensive Combat Value: $2300 Invasion Requirement: $6900
Resource Exploitation Sector α: BB1
Core Sector + 2 GDP boost + 2 Population boost (9 points)
GDP: $16,000
Population: 80 billion population units
System Defenses: Overall: $8000 Defensive Combat Value: $1600 Invasion Requirement: $4800
Resource Exploitation Sector β: CC2
Core Sector + 2 GDP boost + 2 Population boost (9 points)
GDP: $16,000
Population: 80 billion population units
System Defenses: Overall: $8000 Defensive Combat Value: $1600 Invasion Requirement: $4800
Totals:
NCP Spent: 23 points
GDP: $55,000
Population: 270 billion population units
Iduran Confederation wrote:
Brief History:
Since time out of mind, the Idurans had worshiped the 14 gods. There were always sharp divisions among the believers, as to which god what more important or more powerful, though most agreed that all 14 gods existed. The gods, they said, told them to be fruitful and multiply, and when a mathematician and an engineer designed the Beicl-Hocylict FTL drive that was exactly what they did. All the major factions on the homeworld of Idura sqaubbled over who should build the ships or fund the colonies. There was always fighting and bickering, not least over which god one followed.
Each colony tried to one-up the others, by building the highest flagpole, or the most beautiful temple, or the most luxurious palace for their monarch... or the biggest military. The homeworld could barely keep hold of them and keep them paying taxes. Finally, in 2287, a tactical nuke was used on the Iduran Imperial Palace, killing all inside, completely eliminating the entire hereditary royal population, and effectively beheading the Iduran capital government. The squabbling and bickering exploded into outright political, economic, and eventually military warfare. Each religious sect, political faction and individual with a soapbox and loudspeaker blamed another or internal forces on Idura for the "blasphemous and outrageous upheaval of the natural order of things as the gods proclaimed it", as one priest put it. War raged for over two decades between and among every single colony and the homeworld as each tried to assert control. Billions died in the Great Fingerpointing.
Eventually, cooler, secular heads prevailed and each of the sectors began to rebuild. A loose, overarching government was formed in an effort to prevent the horrific slaughter from happening again.
The first great test for the jurisdiction of the Confederation came in 2356, when a diplomatic starship from Nova Terra arrived in Ojofu and asked to open peaceful trading negotiations. The sector government tried to leverage this advantage to the hilt, trying to become an exclusive point of entry for trade and contact with the humans. The Confederation government's dominance was cemented in great part due to the quick thinking of then Prime Minister Harkon, who almost simultaneously opened a broad videoconference with the monarch of each sector and requested each other member state's military to send their own escort fleet to protect the diplomatic envoy.
The Ojofu sector government swiftly "found" it more politically wise to avoid breaking rank with its fellow sectors, and the Confederation's jurisdiction in external affairs was established.
The politics of the Iduran Confederation have been complicated and dangerous for centuries, but somehow the Confederation stays together. Each city-state is ever vying for political points, leverage and money, and though there has never again been a military war between the city-states, there is always some tension between them, and the intra-Confederation economic and political warfare can get nasty.
Government: The government of the Confederation consists of a single house parliament with a Prime Minister elected from within the parliament; most city-states, however, are constitutional monarchies.
Economy: Inter-sector economy is only moderate, as each sector is generally self-sufficient. Tourism is a notable industry. Raw Materials are a major export, and there are some worlds/sectors that are easing immigration restrictions, trying to encourage scientific, economic and technological progress. Systems manufactured by most member worlds are generally known not for their cutting-edge technology but for their ruggedness, durability and reliability even under heavy loads.
Species: 60% Iduran, 27% human, 13% other
Religions: There is no official, confederation sponsored religion, though a few of the city-states have their own official religion.
Languages: Iduran, Standard English.
Currency: Mark (or MK for the lazy). Standard SI prefixes are used for fractions or multiples of this.
Technology: Lags somewhat behind the galactic average, as with small city states scientific work ends up being compartmentalized. Also, given the Iduran penchant for safety, that also has tempered the rate of scientific progress, though the humans in the populations have been pushing the Idurans along so that they're not hopelessly slow. The tardiness in technology is made up for somewhat in the use of extra-redundant systems, so the ships can take rather more punishment before crippling or catastrophic failure. This is somewhat prevalent throughout the technology of the Iduran Confederation, so overall any kind of technology from this confederation is going to be sturdy (but slightly behind the times), not just the military hardware.
Foreign policy: Neutral, isolationist.
Military:
Due to the state of the politics of the Iduran Confederation, the government cannot come up with the political drive needed to fund the creation of anything bigger than a Heavy ship -- the city-states are just too independent to work together on so big a project. However, due to the Iduran desire for safety, those ships that are produced are strong, durable and fault-tolerant. There may not be many of them, but they easily best the smugglers, pirates, and other local/regional space scum that the Navy normally has to deal with.
The same goes for the army -- the army does not take just any volunteer. The males and females in the Army/Marines are professionals, and they are just slightly above average. This also goes for their equipment. The equipment is supposed to be the right tool for the right job, and it's supposed to bring the occupant home in one piece.
Bottom line: The watchwords of the military are quality over quantity, and taking a deliberate step away from cutting corners and towards combat survival rates. Does this come at the expense of brutal efficiency? Perhaps.
Also of note is that this is, at its core, a police force, not a military force. Though they have experience bringing down small drug cartels, smuggling rings, and the occasional band of pirates, they have not faced an open war or even a rebellion since the Eko Belt Miner Uprising almost 200 years ago. If the Idurans gets in a real shooting war with another major power, massive changes will have to take place.
Why the need for a relatively large and well-trained police force? Because apprehending ginger-high gangs of narcotics smugglers is not a task to be taken lightly, and it happens all too frequently.
NCP calculations wrote:
22 NCPs
System
Idura [Capital]
Ojofu
Septimus
Cetafe
Elaya
Eko
Ktutz
BilanSystem Type
Core
Mid
Mid
Mid
Mid
Mid
Colony
ColonyLocations
k13
k12
j14
k14
j13
j12
i12
j15Data
50 Bil Population, $14,000 GDP, 1 Hyperspace Junction and 1 Warp Gate inherited by forgoing Home sector
30 Bil Population, $6,000 GDP
30 Bil Population, $6,000 GDP
30 Bil Population, $6,000 GDP
30 Bil Population, $6,000 GDP
30 Bil Population, $6,000 GDP
10 Bil Population, $2,000 GDP
10 Bil Population, $2,000 GDP
Systems: 22 pts
Warp Gates: 1, for 0 pts (inheirited)
Hyperspace Junctions: 1, for 0 pts (inheirited)
Total Population : 220 Billion
Total GDP : $47,000Military OOB wrote: Military Total Numbers:
Navy:
10 Athenen-class Carriers ($140 - heavy hull) (Generally one per sector)
40 Protector-class Destroyers ($155 - heavy hull) (Usually 5 per sector)
180 Loyalist-class Cruisers ($90 - medium hull) (Roughly 20 per sector)
280 Unity-class Cutters ($50 - light hull) (Roughly 30 per sector)
100 Cairo-class specialist ships ($25 - ultralight hull) (Roughly 10 per sector)
50 Yachts (various tasks)
[These numbers are assuming fighters/gunboats are not included in carrier costs, and represent an 75/25 % split in carrier loadout. If fighter costs are actually included in carrier costs, well, I don't especially care. They're not that expensive.]
175 Vulture-class Gunboats
525 Falcon-class Fighters
800 Hyperlight shuttles
800 Regular shuttles
Army:Troops
Elite
RegularTroop Total
30,000,000
150,000,000Troops per dollar
35,000
95,000Equipment Multiplier
3.1
2.1
Siege wrote:I'm sorry, but I have to object to there being five--five!--30 NCP moderator states around. I didn't mind when it was just Steve, after all he put a lot of time and effort into getting this game going and it would just be one nation among many. But five?! That's far too great a number of nations given a significanty larger number of points than the rest of the players--and for no readily apparent reason either; after all the UN is the designated NPC mod-hammer, the states the moderators themselves RP as are not supposed to function in this way.
Mind you it's not that I don't trust Rogue, Wilkens, Steve, Shady and Fin, it's that I think no good reason has been provided why all moderators should be handed such a frankly unfair point advantage. Why are they getting this bonus when nobody else does?
I again agree, there should be some shadowy menace beyond the edges of the map to act as mod hammer along with the UN. Not some mod states that also have worry about playing the game and mod hammers that can be killed off. Besides, how could anybody ever feel safe attacking a mod nation then?Siege wrote:If moderator states are supposed to function as mod-hammers to speed things up that makes the current setup worse, not better, because now it will inevitably become difficult to determine whether a state's actions are motivated by the player or by that player in function as a moderator. This is just an absurdly bad idea all round, and one that's completely unnecessary to boot.
I also find the notion of extra NCPs as a bonus for investing time in this game ridiculous: either you're committed and willing to devote the time, or you're not. The consequences of either should be obvious, and a bonus shouldn't ever figure into whether you take a seat on the council or not.
I'm just saying why should mod nations be in any way special? There are many ways to do things and as I suggested the UN and an outside threat controlled by nobody would be a better option than having mod states be involved in discipline in anyway. Besides, you already said a well formed alliance could take out an individual mod state so why couldn't a few such alliances form using the near non-existent stories that we have now?Steve wrote:As for wiping out the mod hammer, well, by definition it's the freaking mod hammer. Frankly for enough players to work together to be clearly superior to the mod hammer and to require its victory to be an ass-pull, it means that a major portion of the player base are in open revolt and the STGOD's probably screwed anyway.
Also, to simply target the mod nations as some sort of vendetta somewhat flies in the face of the entire character of the STGOD as proposed, which is not about "Winning" a game but about having fun with stories and player initeractions and such. The whole "Don't be a douche" rule. If a bunch of players in the SW quadrant gang up for the explicit purpose of killing Rogue's nation or Wilkens', that'd fall under the "being a douche" part I'd say.
I was, but in the end it would really amount to the same thing and would be reasonable if mod fleets from those systems had to smack people down. After all them attacking another nation for something that may or may not be reasonable may give others and excuse to attack.Steve wrote:Sorry, i thought you were talking about a group of players ganging up to destroy the modhammer.
And we only need one. I honestly don't want to go for the tired cliche of the grand existential threat to everyone.
I think that's overcomplicating things when we're mostly worried with "story", not ruleset elements.Norade wrote:I was, but in the end it would really amount to the same thing and would be reasonable if mod fleets from those systems had to smack people down. After all them attacking another nation for something that may or may not be reasonable may give others and excuse to attack.Steve wrote:Sorry, i thought you were talking about a group of players ganging up to destroy the modhammer.
And we only need one. I honestly don't want to go for the tired cliche of the grand existential threat to everyone.
I agree, to solve the issue maybe add some UN outposts linked to the main body by super hyperlanes that only the UN has the etch to use.
Maybe, either way using UN outposts instead of Mod states would be the better way to enforce the rules should a need arise.Steve wrote:I think that's overcomplicating things when we're mostly worried with "story", not ruleset elements.Norade wrote:I was, but in the end it would really amount to the same thing and would be reasonable if mod fleets from those systems had to smack people down. After all them attacking another nation for something that may or may not be reasonable may give others and excuse to attack.Steve wrote:Sorry, i thought you were talking about a group of players ganging up to destroy the modhammer.
And we only need one. I honestly don't want to go for the tired cliche of the grand existential threat to everyone.
I agree, to solve the issue maybe add some UN outposts linked to the main body by super hyperlanes that only the UN has the etch to use.
I agree with this, especially if we go by time invested, none of the mods (with the exception of Steve) even approached an above-average level of activity in the last game. Heck, if we go by that, then frankly Lonestar, Siege and me should get the boost.Siege wrote:I also find the notion of extra NCPs as a bonus for investing time in this game ridiculous: either you're committed and willing to devote the time, or you're not. The consequences of either should be obvious, and a bonus shouldn't ever figure into whether you take a seat on the council or not.
You do realise that everyone, excluding Steve, was with the game since the first incarnation? WOuld you like to count the hundreds of posts everyone else made?Thanas wrote:I agree with this, especially if we go by time invested, none of the mods (with the exception of Steve) even approached an above-average level of activity in the last game. Heck, if we go by that, then frankly Lonestar, Siege and me should get the boost.Siege wrote:I also find the notion of extra NCPs as a bonus for investing time in this game ridiculous: either you're committed and willing to devote the time, or you're not. The consequences of either should be obvious, and a bonus shouldn't ever figure into whether you take a seat on the council or not.
That shows that the mods deserve extra how?Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:You do realise that everyone, excluding Steve, was with the game since the first incarnation? WOuld you like to count the hundreds of posts everyone else made?Thanas wrote:I agree with this, especially if we go by time invested, none of the mods (with the exception of Steve) even approached an above-average level of activity in the last game. Heck, if we go by that, then frankly Lonestar, Siege and me should get the boost.Siege wrote:I also find the notion of extra NCPs as a bonus for investing time in this game ridiculous: either you're committed and willing to devote the time, or you're not. The consequences of either should be obvious, and a bonus shouldn't ever figure into whether you take a seat on the council or not.
The last game died by virtue of minutae and sheer boredom, nevermind the spinelessness of certain unnamed players?
I think Fin's objecting to Thanas' remarks on activity in the last game specifically, not on the issue of mod bonuses.Norade wrote: That shows that the mods deserve extra how?
You're probably right. Sorry Fin.Steve wrote:I think Fin's objecting to Thanas' remarks on activity in the last game specifically, not on the issue of mod bonuses.Norade wrote: That shows that the mods deserve extra how?
