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RogueIce wrote:Well given that those Shroomanian troops, according to Siege, are just gunning down anyone who approaches them, I suppose it's about the same thing anyway.

Why would Shroomanian troops fire upon an Ally?

Now that is a valid argument. But if Fingolfin wants to spend the money...

Well, an occasional live firing exercise won't hurt.. (and factored in the budget anyhow)

Live fire excercise in what? Bombing the countryside?

How about you just take the money you'd need to spend on hundreds of thousands of napalm bombs and give them to me?

PeZook wrote:Live fire excercise in what? Bombing the countryside?

How about you just take the money you'd need to spend on hundreds of thousands of napalm bombs and give them to me?

Nah. Call it a disposal exercise. After all, those bombs have a lifetime limit.

It's better to do a shake and bake. Salt the fire bombs with explosive bombs to create more paths for fire to feed through, thereby increasing the ability to burn everything before burning out.

Beowulf wrote:It's better to do a shake and bake. Salt the fire bombs with explosive bombs to create more paths for fire to feed through, thereby increasing the ability to burn everything before burning out.

Burning an entire country will still use a fuckload of bombs, probably way more than Byzantium has stockpiled, and an ungodly amount of aircraft sorties.

PeZook wrote:

Beowulf wrote:It's better to do a shake and bake. Salt the fire bombs with explosive bombs to create more paths for fire to feed through, thereby increasing the ability to burn everything before burning out.

Burning an entire country will still use a fuckload of bombs, probably way more than Byzantium has stockpiled, and an ungodly amount of aircraft sorties.

Who said an entire country? Probably destroy what's left of the cities first.

In any case, if life were to every return to that place, we'd ought to raze the forests as well, or start up some forest fire or do some climate control to stop the area from raining for a month, then set off a forest fire or smething of the like. I for one won't mind returning that place to some degree of normalcy, beyond looking with awe at the carnage I unleashed.

Beowulf wrote:It's better to do a shake and bake. Salt the fire bombs with explosive bombs to create more paths for fire to feed through, thereby increasing the ability to burn everything before burning out.

By the way, what do you mean by "salt"?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:By the way, what do you mean by "salt"?

Include a HE bomb for every 5 incinderieres, or something like that. Bombs strip off fireproofing and reduce large objects into kindling, making the fire burn easier and hotter.

Fun with zombies!

Turn them into a business opportunity! Bob Bando is definitely an Ayn Rand reader.

PeZook wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote: Hmm. Does FASTA have any use for aerospace scientists? We can also produce parts.

DUH. It's an organization devoted to development of technology to conquer and colonize space. What do you think?

I figured. It just seems everybody has quite enough of whatever it is I might want to sell them.

We could use old-fashioned monies, too. In return, you get prestige and (most) of the results, in the form of rocket schematics and such.

By reprocessing, I mean taking the spent nuclear waste and turning it into plutonium, which you can use in MOX fuel mixture to get more energy per kilogram of natural uranium.

EDIT: On fuel loads, the typical CANDU reactor is loaded with around 100 tonnes of nuclear fuel (MOX, mix of uranium and plutonium). I don't know how often it needs to be refuelled, but if it burns through a single load once a year, a single reactor could easily burn through 1/3 of your total yearly supply.

Then again, your country is rather small population-wise, so two reactor supplying all the power you need is not out of the question.

I think I assumed they were about as energetic per capita as China, and the number came out to 29 small CANDU reactors to supply 7.5 million people. The trouble is that in order for me to supply that internally, going by your numbers, that mine would have to produce about--shit, about 7% of the world's current annual uranium production. Needless to say, I'm going to have to resort to wind power or something... XD

So, let's say I have those two reactors, and I'd like to expand my capacity, but can't, because of the fuel demands. PeZookia processes the spent uranium for Miratia, PeZookia gets to keep some of it. Hows that sound?

It's 100 tonnes of MOX. I have no idea what kind of mix the pellets contain, and how fast the reactors burn through their fuel, which are both critical parts of the calculations

And the deal sounds most excellent! I have big plans for expansion of nuclear power production in PeZookia...having lots of excess energy is niiiiice

EDIT: With some more research into the matter, I've found that MOX contains around 7-10% plutonium and the rest is uranium, and the total fuel load is burned over three to four years.

I also made a boo-boo calculating the fuel load. It's actually 7600 kilograms - it's pretty embarassing, really, having mistaken units like a total idiot.

So 29 CANDU reactors would need 220 tonnes of MOX fuel every three years, so around 200 tonnes of uranium and the rest plutonium. AFAIK, MOX cannot be reprocessed, since it's a result of reprocessing itself. So PeZookia can make you MOX from people's nuclear waste and sell it

I'm not sure if it's feasible to have a 100% die-off. Perhaps have large sections of the interior off-limits and most of the population that survived living in camps in South Veleria with just a few "clear zones" in Astaria proper that are basically Shroomanian garrisons to help wave off adventurers and graverobbers and to provide quarantine and clearing for any survivors who come walking in.

It looks like they typically change fuel more like every 3 years in a CANDU reactor. And you probably need much less uranium than you think. Fuel load depends heavily on output, after all.

PeZook wrote:It's 100 tonnes of MOX. I have no idea what kind of mix the pellets contain, and how fast the reactors burn through their fuel, which are both critical parts of the calculations

And the deal sounds most excellent! I have big plans for expansion of nuclear power production in PeZookia...having lots of excess energy is niiiiice

EDIT: With some more research into the matter, I've found that MOX contains around 7-10% plutonium and the rest is uranium, and the total fuel load is burned over three to four years.

I also made a boo-boo calculating the fuel load. It's actually 7600 kilograms - it's pretty embarassing, really, having mistaken units like a total idiot.

So 29 CANDU reactors would need 220 tonnes of MOX fuel every three years, so around 200 tonnes of uranium and the rest plutonium. AFAIK, MOX cannot be reprocessed, since it's a result of reprocessing itself. So PeZookia can make you MOX from people's nuclear waste and sell it

There's no reason why you can't reprocess MOX into more MOX (with the addition of more uranium on the input side, and the removal of reaction products).

PeZook wrote:<snip>

Yeah, actually, looks like I won't be needing the reprocessed fuel, given those numbers. Rather, I'll have an excess of natural uranium and spent nuclear fuel. So you can have the majority of the spent stuff, since I don't really have all *that* much use for it, and I'll scale down uranium production unless somebody's willing to buy it. I'd like something in return for it, though. Perhaps a cut of whatever you get for it when you're selling it.

PeZook wrote:Oh, he's a hypercapitalist exploitation state, this label goes without saying

Oh c'mon, give me some credit here. Using Astaria as a giant target the Rocket Authority de-orbits satellites onto is one of the best ideas I've had in weeks! Hell, I intend to make it an unofficial competition among High Tower personnel to attempt to hit Bleak Castle! First one to strike it dead on wins a new car!

As for the Shroomanian troops on Astarian soil, it's something Shroom and I talked about a while back. They supposedly try and decontaminate the land and restore a modicum of order, but it would be very slow and basically they'd be confined to the edges of the island, whilst being confronted by zombie hordes every now and again. It was all supposed to be very 28-weeks-later-ish (hence the zombies). Obviously they wouldn't shoot at any allied ships or soldiers or somesuch - it's just that any Astarian on the island would supposedly be assumed to be infected, hence the shoot-on-sight policy. Although I'm not opposed to occasional bands of survivors turning up, really - I guess we can retcon that bit to include quarantine for any stragglers who manage to make it to the exclusion zone etc.

I have a hard time seeing how bombing Astaria will work by the way. Shep dumped lord-knows how many tons of Anthrax on the place. That shit lingers. You'd have to firebomb just about every square mile to be sure you got rid of it all. It's really not very economical, particularly considering that Astaria is in the middle of nowhere and doesn't have any significant deposits of valuable resources that can't be gotten easier (and presumably cheaper) in a place that isn't showered in Anthrax and infested with zombies...

PS: And on another subject, if the Old Dominion gets to keep stocks of bioweapon samples on ice that aren't under the direct and explicit control of that oversight committee, then you can bet your ass I'll be keeping similar stocks, and so I would assume will everybody else. That just utterly negates the bulk of the treaty. I signed on for the total elimination of bioweapons, not for "OD gets to keep samples so they can have a fresh batch of biobombs in a month or two".

What if you nuked it? Could you get the coverage you need to clear it out that way?

Ryan Thunder wrote:What if you nuked it? Could you get the coverage you need to clear it out that way?

Not really. It'd only really get hot enough in the fireball itself, which doesn't actually cover all that much of the devastated area. Firebombing is really the best bet for removing the remaining bio agents.

Beowulf wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:What if you nuked it? Could you get the coverage you need to clear it out that way?

Not really. It'd only really get hot enough in the fireball itself, which doesn't actually cover all that much of the devastated area. Firebombing is really the best bet for removing the remaining bio agents.

Neutron bomb?

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Beowulf wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:What if you nuked it? Could you get the coverage you need to clear it out that way?

Not really. It'd only really get hot enough in the fireball itself, which doesn't actually cover all that much of the devastated area. Firebombing is really the best bet for removing the remaining bio agents.

Neutron bomb?

The radiation released from a Neutron Bomb would be insufficient to remove enough bio-agent. You literally need to burn them out.

Ugh. Bloody mess, then. This was Shep's brilliant idea, I take it?

Ryan Thunder wrote:Ugh. Bloody mess, then. This was Shep's brilliant idea, I take it?

Yes. On the nuke fuel topic: I'll buy the excess. We need the uranium for bombs and to make fuel for the proposed reactors. You get monies and a shiny new seaport in return

EDIT: Oh, and I also think there's no way you could kill 100% of the populace. A tiny percent will actually be immune, after all, and it's not like Shep contaminated every square centimeter of the soil: there will be clear areas, there will be camps and small settlements, and of course hardened facilities.

SiegeTank wrote:PS: And on another subject, if the Old Dominion gets to keep stocks of bioweapon samples on ice that aren't under the direct and explicit control of that oversight committee, then you can bet your ass I'll be keeping similar stocks, and so I would assume will everybody else. That just utterly negates the bulk of the treaty. I signed on for the total elimination of bioweapons, not for "OD gets to keep samples so they can have a fresh batch of biobombs in a month or two".

Well, see, now that's the beauty of it. No one would know. It's not like we'd run out and tell everyone else what the deal was.

PeZook wrote:On the nuke fuel topic: I'll buy the excess. We need the uranium for bombs and to make fuel for the proposed reactors. You get monies and a shiny new seaport in return

Sounds good to me.

Oh, by the way, as a general note to anybody with embassies on Miratian soil, don't forget to tell your ambassadors that carrying a military firearm is illegal for civilians, and that includes foreigners off of embassy grounds. That means anything larger than a hunting rifle and/or semi-automatic and/or automatic.

Coyote wrote:Well, see, now that's the beauty of it. No one would know. It's not like we'd run out and tell everyone else what the deal was.

Well, with all due respect, but do you really think you can keep something of that magnitude a secret? The international oversight committee (or whatever it'll end up being called) is going to be closely monitored by all member nations, who will want reports and explanations on its activities. You can't just exclude facilities in the Old Dominion on a whim, and bioweapons tend to expire rather quickly - the Old D will have to replenish their stocks at some point, which means maintaining the infrastructure to manufacture those bugs, which will be really hard to hide. This isn't just a freezer with some samples we'd be talking about here.

But let's say you do manage to keep it from the oversight committee (after all, lots of bunkers in the Dominion, lots of places to hide things), do you really think you're going to keep a MESS-wide conspiracy perpetually covered-up when you're up against the combined intelligence assets of the rest of the planet? At some point someone will find out, and when that someone happens to be, say, the CSR (who I frankly wouldn't put it past to already have moles in Byzantium, considering their relationship), there will be people screaming bloody murder, and there will be shit hitting fans, and at the very least the bioban treaty we've worked so hard to make work will be the first thing flying out the windows of the world's collective parliaments. Oh and also, for what that'll be worth, no-one will ever trust the MESS again.

Frankly this plan strikes me as a recipe for disaster, and although I'm not necessarily opposed to disaster (spices up the game after all), I personally don't think of this as a very feasible, or particularly wise, option.

Uh, Siege...we can all keep weaponized agents on stock in order to develop vaccines. We just have to let BIOCOM inspectors in whenever they want, and show them the facilities.