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Clean install chopped out of Vista upgrade discs
Posted: 2007-01-28 12:20pm
by DaveJB
Just when it looked like MS were going to treat enthusiasts with a
smidge more respect after that 1 copy-1 computer thing, they go and do this:
DailyTech:
When it comes to the Windows Vista, Microsoft is changing a long-standing tradition when it comes to upgrading from a previous version of Windows. No longer will popping in a disc of a previous version of Windows during setup satisfy the people in Redmond when using an upgrade CD.
For example, when performing a clean install of Windows XP Professional using an upgrade CD, users would run through the normal setup routine until prompted to insert a previous version of Windows. A user could pop in a Windows 98 or Windows 2000 CD for upgrade compliance and then the setup routine would move along as usual.
Microsoft has cut out this process for Windows Vista and forces users who buy an upgrade CD to actually have a valid install of Windows XP Home or Professional on their machines before upgrading.
For most users, this wouldn't be a problem. They more than likely have an existing copy of Windows XP installed and would have no problems upgrading to Windows Vista with an upgrade CD.
But for do-it-yourselfers who buy a Vista upgrade CD and think that they can easily perform a clean install whenever they feel free are going to run into the road block. In this case, the road block means that users wanting to perform a clean install with a Vista upgrade CD will have to:
1) Install a genuine copy of Windows XP Home/Professional
2) Activate Windows XP through Microsoft
3) Upgrade to Windows Vista from within Windows XP
So if you plan on saving money by using a Vista upgrade CD instead of purchasing a full copy, be aware that you’re have a few extra steps involved before booting to the Vista desktop for the first time. If you don’t want to deal with the hassle, you’re going to have to pony up for a full copy of Vista.
Yet another bullshit licensing restriction that has no technical reason whatsoever. And some people still say that they're a benevolent monopoly...
Posted: 2007-01-28 02:06pm
by Netko
As much bullshit as that is (ever heard of reinstalls MS?), I
my MSDNAA account. Vista Business full edition for 0$, hell yeah!
Posted: 2007-01-28 03:55pm
by InnocentBystander
Okay, so lets say you've got an image of XP Pro which can be activated from as many computers as your heart desires, could 1 Vista upgrade disk allow you to upgrade multiple machines?
Posted: 2007-01-28 04:07pm
by phongn
InnocentBystander wrote:Okay, so lets say you've got an image of XP Pro which can be activated from as many computers as your heart desires, could 1 Vista upgrade disk allow you to upgrade multiple machines?
No.
Posted: 2007-01-28 09:53pm
by Uraniun235
Yet another bullshit licensing restriction that has no technical reason whatsoever.
You know how trivially easy it is to grab someone else's full-install CD so that you can buy the 'upgrade' version? Or even 'better', to download an ISO from the internet and use that to trick the installer? It's not like each individual CD is unique, you know. Unless someone has a better idea, I rather suspect this is the only credible alternative to MS throwing their hands up and abandoning the "upgrade" model altogether.
Honestly, how many 'enthusiasts' are there who fit all of the following:
- Are not members of an institution (whether students of a university, or otherwise) through which they could purchase at reduced cost a full version
- Do not have friends who are members of aforementioned institution who they could get to purchase Windows for them and then reimburse them
- Have a legal copy of a previous version of Windows which qualifies for the 'upgrade' program
- Will actually legally purchase Windows as opposed to pirate it
And how utterly insignificant is this demographic of people in terms of the total customer base?
Posted: 2007-01-28 11:30pm
by Darth Wong
On the other hand, doesn't an upgrade version cost as much as an OEM full version? Frankly, any non-OEM versions of Windows exist solely for the purpose of gouging consumers who don't know any better.
Posted: 2007-01-29 12:22am
by The Kernel
Darth Wong wrote:On the other hand, doesn't an upgrade version cost as much as an OEM full version? Frankly, any non-OEM versions of Windows exist solely for the purpose of gouging consumers who don't know any better.
The problem with OEM version is that they don't contain dual 32-bit/64-bit builds. For someone like me I'm pretty much forced into buying a regular version as I want to have the option to install 32-bit now, then 64-bit later when the software matures.
Posted: 2007-01-29 12:26am
by Darth Wong
That's an interesting point, although XP had a 64-bit version and I was under the impression that it wasn't worth the bother.
Posted: 2007-01-29 01:35am
by The Kernel
Darth Wong wrote:That's an interesting point, although XP had a 64-bit version and I was under the impression that it wasn't worth the bother.
XP 64-bit was a tester OS that really was meant for development purposes. 64-bit Vista is definitely the future, but the driver and application support isn't there yet.
If you consider the length of time until 4GB+ becomes the standard power user memory load, then memory address space alone is going to cause people to flock to Vista 64-bit in 2007.
Posted: 2007-01-29 09:06am
by DaveJB
The Kernel wrote:The problem with OEM version is that they don't contain dual 32-bit/64-bit builds. For someone like me I'm pretty much forced into buying a regular version as I want to have the option to install 32-bit now, then 64-bit later when the software matures.
Going by UK prices, buying both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Vista Home Premium OEM costs you about £140. If you shell out for the full box version of Home Premium, it's £210.
Posted: 2007-01-29 09:54am
by Arrow
Mwave has both 32-bit and 64-bit Home Premium OEM list as $115 each. Since they don't have the retail prices, I'll use Amazon's: $226.99. So for the States, its almost an even trade.
Posted: 2007-01-29 10:49am
by DaveJB
Ah, I see. It looks like we're paying about the same for the OEM versions, but for some reason our retail box prices have been almost doubled over their US counterparts. Just another reason why the boxed versions are a rip-off...
Posted: 2007-01-29 12:14pm
by Arrow
DaveJB wrote:Ah, I see. It looks like we're paying about the same for the OEM versions, but for some reason our retail box prices have been almost doubled over their US counterparts. Just another reason why the boxed versions are a rip-off...
I don't get European pricing for computer hardware or software. For every major product release I pay attention to, it looks like you guys are paying at least fifty percent more than the US.
As for me, it looks like I'm going with Ultimate Retail. I need the extra networking features for VPN and Remote Desktop for work, and I want to start with 32-bit and then switch to 64-bit with in the next two years; I don't see the prices going down between now and then, since they didn't with XP, so I'll be paying the same amount either way. And I might have a couple of people that want to go in with me and get the discount deal on Home Premium, which would offset my costs a little bit.
Posted: 2007-01-29 04:35pm
by Edward Yee
Having looked at the OP article and comments, is there any knowledge of how a Media Center laptop would be affected, or does MCE2005 fall under Pro software-wise? (As I believe this makes the Express Upgrade program not so great... and a backup of my stuff more urgent.)
Posted: 2007-01-29 04:51pm
by DaveJB
Edward Yee wrote:Having looked at the OP article and comments, is there any knowledge of how a Media Center laptop would be affected, or does MCE2005 fall under Pro software-wise? (As I believe this makes the Express Upgrade program not so great... and a backup of my stuff more urgent.)
MCE can be upgraded to either Home Premium or Ultimate.
Posted: 2007-01-29 04:52pm
by Lancer
Upgrade paths
I'm not sure, but I believe that MCE2005 is Windows XP Media Center.
Posted: 2007-01-29 05:05pm
by Pint0 Xtreme
Quick question: If you have a non-ultimate version of Windows Vista, is it easy or inexpensive to upgrade to a more expansive version?
Posted: 2007-01-29 05:38pm
by Spyder
Not a clue, but my commiserations to anyone unfortunate enough to purchase home basic. That OS has been
horrendously gimped.
Posted: 2007-01-29 05:39pm
by phongn
Pint0 Xtreme wrote:Quick question: If you have a non-ultimate version of Windows Vista, is it easy or inexpensive to upgrade to a more expansive version?
I'm not sure if it's inexpensive but it is pretty easy - somewhere in the Welcome page (IIRC) there will be an upgrade option. The install media already contains the extra content.
Posted: 2007-01-30 03:19am
by Xon
You might want to look into
MS's Technet which gets you both Vista & Office (plus lots of others) with thier high end versions for
less than the cost of just Vista & Office retail/OEM.
I'm fairly sure just the DL access gets disabled once the subscription ends and the product keys still remain valid.
Posted: 2007-01-30 03:38am
by bilateralrope
Spyder wrote:Not a clue, but my commiserations to anyone unfortunate enough to purchase home basic. That OS has been
horrendously gimped.
I actually see nothing listed as not being in the basic version that actually interests me, so if I ever get Vista for my home computer it will probably be the basic version. Though I have to wounder why they put the extra games in the business version.
Posted: 2007-01-30 07:21am
by DaveJB
If none of the other editions interest you, then you should probably just stick with XP. There isn't really anything in Home Basic (other than DX10, which won't be required by games for a while yet) that you can't duplicate with free apps.
Posted: 2007-01-30 11:32am
by Arrow
If anyone's interested, Ars has a
good summary of the differences between the retail and OEM licenses.
Posted: 2007-01-30 01:33pm
by Admiral Valdemar
They just had a piece on BBC News on it, and everyone pretty much said they'd get it when forced to, ergo, years from now hopefully. The only good comments came from 16-year-olds who liked the decidedly clunky and unoriginal Aero interface.
Wow, I'm sold!
It gets better with the user comments on the Beeb site.
Posted: 2007-01-30 01:40pm
by Bounty
It gets better with the user comments on the Beeb site.
Holy shit. There's one Gates-wanker on
page one, all the others are saying that Vista is uesless at best and broken at worst. Someone at MS's marketing department should read this...
ETA: sorry, the wanker was being
quoted so someone could bash MS some more
