Is anyone else disappointed with the Cylon reveals in nBSG?

Temjin · Post by **Temjin** » 2007-09-03 06:11am

What I loved most about the first two seasons of Battlestar Galactica were the Cylon reveals.

I was constantly surprised! We'd find out that these recurring characters (some of whom were even major characters) we thought we knew and trusted were actually Cylons!

I remember how these reveals would force me to go through previous episodes now looking at their actions in a new light. Oh sure, that character said he was fixing something in that panel, but now the we know he's a Cylon, what was he actually doing?

Oh shit. Wait. None of that stuff actually happened.

All three Cylon reveals we got during the first two seasons were all new characters first seen in the very same episode they were revealed to be Cylons. Wow, what mystery....

And the most disappointing reveal of all was of four of the final five cylons. There were no hints leading up to it from previous episodes. It doesn't make us view their previous actions in a new light. It even violates the damn rules that RDM himself put down regarding the skinjobs. It looks completely tacked on.

Thinking back on it, this was just such a waste of opportunity. I think it would have made the series even better than it is now.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2007-09-03 07:40am

You don't know what they're going to do with it and neither do I, I have no idea what the final play is going to include now the others are involved. How the fuck can it be a "wasted opportunity" when there's still a whole series to wrap it all up? We have no idea their motives, why they split from the other cylons, what will be at Earth. When it's dealt with, then we can say it was a wasted opportunity, not before.

I see where you're coming from on the first six cylons, but then again, if the writers were bored with that plot (and it has been repeated often before now, it's a generic spy plot), they may have wanted to keep it by the sidelines and only use it sparingly.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-09-03 03:42pm

Who says those four are Cylons? That's what they assume.

Temjin · Post by **Temjin** » 2007-09-03 03:48pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Who says those four are Cylons? That's what they assume.

RDM himself. He confirmed it in an interview.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2007-09-03 03:51pm

Temjin wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Who says those four are Cylons? That's what they assume.
RDM himself. He confirmed it in an interview.

Then again, he managed to convince everyone he had really killed off Starbuck earlier. It's a long-shot, but this might just be another RDM fake-out.

Temjin · Post by **Temjin** » 2007-09-03 03:56pm

Zuul wrote:You don't know what they're going to do with it and neither do I, I have no idea what the final play is going to include now the others are involved. How the fuck can it be a "wasted opportunity" when there's still a whole series to wrap it all up? We have no idea their motives, why they split from the other cylons, what will be at Earth. When it's dealt with, then we can say it was a wasted opportunity, not before.

I see where you're coming from on the first six cylons, but then again, if the writers were bored with that plot (and it has been repeated often before now, it's a generic spy plot), they may have wanted to keep it by the sidelines and only use it sparingly.

Maybe I should have been more clear in my post. The wasted opportunity line was in reference to all the Cylon reveals to this point, not just the latest four.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-09-03 04:09pm

I didn't like how the last four revealed felt like a huge cheap blatant "oh hey isn't this an unexpected twist?" attempt. It didn't feel right, it felt contrived and forced.

Maybe the writers will redeem themselves in the fourth season, but I'm not hugely optimistic about that.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2007-09-03 06:58pm

The problem with the reveal of the last four Cylons was they don't really make much sense. Tigh fought the Cylons the first time around, after all, and there would be service records of that which Adama would have certainly have known, even beyond the fact that Adama knew Saul for a long time anyway.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2007-09-03 07:39pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:The problem with the reveal of the last four Cylons was they don't really make much sense. Tigh fought the Cylons the first time around, after all, and there would be service records of that which Adama would have certainly have known, even beyond the fact that Adama knew Saul for a long time anyway.

And the fact that they made a big deal about Helos/Athenas kid, then made Tyroll a cylon and he has a child.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2007-09-03 07:51pm

You know I was really impressed with first several episodes of Galactica but since then it was a downward spiral really.
Cylons especially are dissappointing. At first I thought the "skinjobs" are nothing more than a tool while the robots are the real leaders.
Then there is "Our entire race, even mechanical centurions,can be wiped out by a virus that somehow transfers through vacuum" thing which comes straight out of "how to make Borg stupid" rulebook.

The last but not the least is the whole religion angle. I know many people here hope it will turn into something good but I can't help but to remember the final episodes of DS9 where relatively good war storyline was interrupted by that godawful "Kostamojan" bullshit. I fear we might get the same thing here.

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2007-09-03 08:30pm

Kane Starkiller wrote:You know I was really impressed with first several episodes of Galactica but since then it was a downward spiral really.
Cylons especially are dissappointing. At first I thought the "skinjobs" are nothing more than a tool while the robots are the real leaders.
Then there is "Our entire race, even mechanical centurions,can be wiped out by a virus that somehow transfers through vacuum" thing which comes straight out of "how to make Borg stupid" rulebook.

The virus was never transfered through a vacuum. It was on a probe the Cylons picked up, and was airborne once the Cylons cracked the thing open.

"First Several Episodes"? You mean you didn't like Galactica falling out of the sky?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-03 08:51pm

What is with the rimjob everyone give those eps? Sure, it looked kinda neat (even if stupid) but the two-parter was full of contrived nonsense. I honestly don't understand that 'zomg ship falling = jesus of scifi' reaction. I hear kewlness wins over koherency.

I've only seen a few of the cylon things, but honestly the fans seem to do a better job of driving up the 'who can you trust' and 'question everything they've done' angles more than the scriptwriters. It's like when a guy tells you about an episode or arc, and it sounds neat, so you watch it... and it's muddy and shallow, and the retelling/condensed version was more thought-provoking.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2007-09-04 01:32am

Stark wrote:What is with the rimjob everyone give those eps? Sure, it looked kinda neat (even if stupid) but the two-parter was full of contrived nonsense. I honestly don't understand that 'zomg ship falling = jesus of scifi' reaction. I hear kewlness wins over koherency.

I've only seen a few of the cylon things, but honestly the fans seem to do a better job of driving up the 'who can you trust' and 'question everything they've done' angles more than the scriptwriters. It's like when a guy tells you about an episode or arc, and it sounds neat, so you watch it... and it's muddy and shallow, and the retelling/condensed version was more thought-provoking.

Lol.

Anyway, I tend to agree. The third season was a mess and they've shoehorned all sorts of stuff into the Cylons that don't really work. The final five being the biggest bit. It's hard enough to buy the great Cylon conspiracy fifty years after a huge war with them and then they dissapear. It's a pretty narrow time line to add in the skinjobs and all the Basestars and such. Now the skinjobs are the top leadership, rather than an infiltration model, plus the hybrids for the ship CPU's and all sorts of other shit they've had to R&D and then build in fifty years.

Now we're supposed to believe on top of all that, five final models were made/created/born and some how gained all sorts of power, enough to wipe the memory of them mostly from the Cylon society and become a shadow goverment type thing.

Seriously, they wrote themselves into a corner. Twice actually, first with New Caprica and the occupation (sorry, I like badass Tigh, but the idea that some were tough and lived through the occupation while others were soft and were aboard the Galactica; one year after the complete annilation of tweleve planets worth of humans is ridiculous) then with the final five.

Third season sucked, Adama manuver not withstanding, and I'm kind of middle road about the up comming season.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2007-09-04 09:50am

Gil Hamilton wrote:The problem with the reveal of the last four Cylons was they don't really make much sense. Tigh fought the Cylons the first time around, after all, and there would be service records of that which Adama would have certainly have known, even beyond the fact that Adama knew Saul for a long time anyway.

If you watch the early episode of NBSG again you'll notice a very strong theme of "history repeats itself".

This is what I call a clue

Andrew_Fireborn · Post by **Andrew_Fireborn** » 2007-09-04 12:17pm

Filler episodes aside, I think it's about the same level it's always been. Not as bad as the Original vision of the universe, but not really a master piece of epic Space Opera Sci-Fi that they want it to be...

Occasionally we get interesting uses of the SFX budget like the Adama Maneuver, or the all out death throws of the Pegasus. (Kinda explains why the majority of season three was low action filler...)

But the writing is getting worse... Less than one year after 12 worlds were completely obliterated, we're supposed to believe there's a movement that's willing to sabotage and kill to have the fleet surrender to the Cylons...

To counter point that, the whole New Caprica Insurgency pissed me off and made me loath Tigh and hope he'd never be seen again. Cut off from the Pegasus AND Galactica, with an occupation force that's proven willing to commit genocide AND outnumbers his forces by an expontial factor... The man has the tactical sense of a lemming to think an active insurgency was the way to go well before contact was established with the Fleet.

Ensuring that life will be that much worse for people on New Caprica, and that the ones holding the pistol to their head would start to feel an itch in their trigger finger. (Never watched the webisodes, so I don't know if there was any better justification of his suicidal actions there... but somehow I doubt it was anything more than, "They're toasters! I frackin hate toasters! IS THAT TOAST! *Gunshot* Fracking toaster lover...")