Are U.S. Troops Being Force-Fed Christianity?

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Lonestar
Keeper of the Schwartz
Posts: 13321
Joined: 2003-02-13 03:21pm
Location: The Bay Area

Are U.S. Troops Being Force-Fed Christianity?

Post by Lonestar »

I assume this is a Rhetorical Question.
Christian Science Monitor
October 4, 2007
Are U.S. Troops Being Force-Fed Christianity?
A watchdog group alleges that improper evangelizing is occurring within the ranks.
By Jane Lampman, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
At Speicher base in Iraq, US Army Spec. Jeremy Hall got permission from a chaplain in August to post fliers announcing a meeting for atheists and other nonbelievers. When the group gathered, Specialist Hall alleges, his Army major supervisor disrupted the meeting and threatened to retaliate against him, including blocking his reenlistment in the Army.
Months earlier, Hall charges, he had been publicly berated by a staff sergeant for not agreeing to join in a Thanksgiving Day prayer.
On Sept. 17, the soldier and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) filed suit against Army Maj. Freddy Welborn and US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, charging violations of Hall's constitutional rights, including being forced to submit to a religious test to qualify as a soldier.
The MRFF plans more lawsuits in coming weeks, says Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, who founded the military watchdog group in 2005. The aim is "to show there is a pattern and practice of constitutionally impermissible promotions of religious beliefs within the Department of Defense."
For Mr. Weinstein – a former Air Force judge advocate and assistant counsel in the Reagan White House – more is involved than isolated cases of discrimination. He charges that several incidents in recent years – and more than 5,000 complaints his group has received from active-duty and retired military personnel – point to a growing willingness inside the military to support a particular brand of Christianity and to permit improper evangelizing in the ranks. More than 95 percent of those complaints come from other Christians, he says.
Others agree on the need for the watchdog group, but question the conspiratorial view and some of its tactics. They say dealing with religious issues is a complex matter, and the military is trying to address them appropriately.
At the Defense Department, spokeswoman Cynthia Smith says the DOD doesn't comment on litigation, but "places a high value on the rights of members of the Armed Forces to observe the tenets of their respective religions."
Since the Revolutionary War, the armed services have tried to ensure that soldiers can practice their faiths, and that chaplains serve not only those of their own sect but all who may need pastoral care. The services have also sought to adhere to the First Amendment prohibition of any government "establishment of religion."
In the 1990s, for instance, the Air Force's Little Blue Book of core values highlighted religious tolerance, emphasizing that military professionals "must not take it upon themselves to change or coercively influence the religious views of subordinates."
Weinstein insists, however, that there are improper actions at high levels that not only infringe on soldiers' rights but, at a very dangerous time, also send the wrong message to people in the Middle East that those in the US military see themselves engaged in Christian warfare.
For example, he says, Lt. Gen. William Boykin, who gave speeches at churches while in uniform that disparaged Islam and defined the war on terror in fundamentalist, "end times" terms, was not fired but promoted. (Speaking of a Muslim warlord he had pursued, Lt. Gen. Boykin said, "I knew my God was a real God and his was an idol." And our enemies "will only be defeated if we come against them in the name of Jesus.")
"There's an eschatologically obsessed version of Christianity that ... is trying to make American foreign and domestic policy conterminous with their biblical worldview," Weinstein charges. And "there's improper pressure within the military command structure to make members join them."
The most serious allegations from the field cannot be corroborated for this article. A few will be raised in the lawsuits, but some incidents have been documented.
Perhaps the most visible situation – and the one that set Weinstein off on his mission – involved the evangelizing of cadets on the part of some faculty and staff at the Air Force Academy (AFA) in Colorado Springs, Colo., which came to light in 2004. Congress held hearings, DOD conducted an investigation, and the head of the academy acknowledged significant problems. Weinstein's cadet son experienced the pressures as a Jew.
Col. David Antoon (ret.), another alumnus of the AFA and now a 747 commercial pilot, says his heart was broken when he took his son, Ryan, to an orientation at the academy in the spring of 2004. An overt evangelistic approach during part of the orientation so upset them, he says, that they decided his son would reject the treasured appointment and instead go to Ohio State University.
"My son had dreamed of doing what I had done, but it was no longer the institution I went to," Colonel Antoon says, his voice cracking with emotion.
The Air Force set about reaffirming basic principles in religion guidelines, as a basis for widespread training, but a pushback by Evangelicals later led to Congress setting them aside until hearings could be held. The hearings have not taken place.
In 2006, MRFF learned of a video produced by Christian Embassy, a group that conducts Bible studies at the Pentagon and seeks to evangelize within the armed services. Aimed at fundraising for the group, the video was improperly taped in the Pentagon and involved endorsements by Army and Air Force generals in uniform.
MRFF's public alert spurred a DOD investigation. In a report critical of the senior officers, the Inspector General said they gave the appearance of speaking for the military. One general defended his role by saying "Christian Embassy had become a quasi-federal entity."
The report noted that Maj. Gen. Paul Sutton participated while he served as chief of the US Office of Defense Cooperation in Turkey, a largely Muslim nation whose military takes pride in protecting the country's secular status. After a Turkish newspaper wrote about the video as promoting a "fundamentalist sect," General Sutton was called in and questioned by members of the Turkish General Staff.
"They had to give him a lesson in the separation of church and state," Weinstein says. "Imagine the propaganda bonanza! And how this upset Muslims."
The DOD report on the video recommended "appropriate corrective action" be taken against the officers. According to Army spokesman Paul Boyce, "The Army has not yet completed any planned actions associated with the Christian Embassy review."
MRFF claims a victory in the case of the evangelical group Operation Stand Up. Earlier this year, OSU was preparing to send "freedom packages" to soldiers in Iraq as part of an Army program. Along with socks and snacks, the packages included proselytizing materials in English and Arabic, and the apocalyptic video game, "Left Behind: Eternal Forces." In it, Christians carry on warfare against people of other faiths.
After the plans were made public, the Pentagon announced in August that the materials would not be mailed. OSU did not respond to a request for comment.
Weinstein – an intense, voluble attorney who prizes blunt, no-holds-barred language – has struck more than one nerve with his bird-dogging. He says numerous threats have been made on his life. Last week, the front window of his house was shot out for the second time. After the lawsuit was filed, talk of "fragging" (killing) Specialist Hall surfaced on some military blogs. The Army is investigating.
Others sympathetic to Weinstein's concerns say some tactics undermine his efforts, and they question aims.
"He's uncovered some very disturbing stuff that shouldn't be going on in the armed forces," says Marc Stern, a religious liberty expert at American Jewish Congress. "But it's important that you not go too far." Mr. Stern disagrees, for instance, with Weinstein's stance on the Air Force guidelines, such as preventing military supervisors from ever speaking of religion to people under their command.
"He did a disservice to his and our cause by taking a position beyond what the law requires, and in fact may intrude on people's rights," Stern adds.
Several conservative Christian ministries publicly proclaim an evangelistic aim "to transform the nations of the world through the militaries of the world," and they are active at US military installations in many countries.
MRFF sees that as a harbinger of a volunteer military falling under the sway of increasing numbers of Christian soldiers. Others see a military leadership, with the exception of a few generals here or there, well aware of its constitutional responsibilities, but challenged by the demands of training on these issues in a military of millions. A group such as MRFF can provide a crucial service, they say, if it is willing to work with the military.
Right now, Weinstein is counting on a set of lawsuits to bring serious issues to the fore. The question is whether those suits will go beyond individual cases of discrimination to prove an unconstitutional pattern within the armed forces.
Some Comments:

(1) As someone who had a Extremely conservative fundalmentalist for a Chaplain("We need to delete all games from the MWR computers as they are immoral and a bad influence. We can't have guys hauling bodies out of the Indian Ocean for 2 weeks get crazy ideas!") I know how bizarre and…stupid it can get. I never met any line officers who were this level of Woo-woos, but I don't doubt they exist. Back when the Chaplain from the Anzio got in trouble(I've posted several threads about him) our Chaplain sent out distro letter with semantic bullshit about what was and wasn't allowed. Chaplains like him and Klinginschmidt created a hostile envireoment that discouraged servicemembers from going to talk to them about their problems, as the results were often less-than pragmatic.("You need to go to Church and pray more.")

(2)By that same token, the Staff-Chaplains here in the Pentagonal Shaped Building seem to have their heads screwed on correctly. The day that "Christian Embassy" story broke in the WaPost a year ago Pentagon Chaplain was well and truly pissed…because the office had specifically said "Do NOT wear your uniform or throw around your rank/service in any such video".

(3)Outside of, uhm, my extended family in Texas, the only time I had a conservative fundlamentalist go off on me was in the Pentagon Athletic Center(This past week, in fact) when I had the audacity to wear a "Viva la Evolucion" shirt with a chimp instead of a Che as my PT shirt. The outstanding gentleman(I never got his name, although he demanded mine) said I was wearing the shirt to specifically target Christians, which I had thought a bit of a stretch. A lifter who bore a passing resemblance to Johnny Bravo told him to fuck off and offered his services as a witness if a "Hostile work enviroment" had to be filed.

(4)It's entirely possible it's more common in the military outside of my somewhat narrow field. Multiple folks in my community have accounts here and on spacebattles…the "non-geek" rates? Not so much. Possibly this skewed my in the past about how widespread Evangelicalism is in the service.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Medic
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2632
Joined: 2004-12-31 01:51pm
Location: Deep South

Post by Medic »

I don't doubt either they exist and perhaps in significant-enough-numbers that it's a serious concern, but I've yet to run across it. I've been pretty lucky but I must remark that in the absence of NCO's and officers in leadership positions peddling religion, lower enlisted are even less likely to promote a hostile workplace, WRT religion. Most guys are just too materialistic basically and just as annoyed by hardcore fundamentalist soldiers as any atheist might be.

A lot depends on circumstance, there can certainly be perfect storms where a 1st Sergeant or Sergeant Major or commander of some sort do proselytize and demonize their Soldiers with apoligists or like-minded types all down the chain-of-command but the inherent diversity in the ranks really seems to work against this.

As was noted @ richarddawkins.net in the foxholes subforum, EO complaints (equal opportunity, which promotes essentially a tolerant workplace) are enough of a bludgeon to ward off the worst instances of such hostile work environments, provided the harassed servicemember in question isn't ate-up to begin with because filing such complaints will be marginalized endlessly. That's not the right answer but that is the way it is. :|
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

Sadly doesn't surprise me at all. All we're waiting for now is for there to be those enforcing the political, as well as religious, orthodoxy. They'd need a spiffy name. 'Comissar' isn't taken, is it?
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

A friend of mine served aboard USS Silversides, a Sturgeon-class attack sub (precursor to the Los Angeles-class boats).

He relates the tale of a Lieutenant J.G. who, during a difficult and frustrating repair job on some component of the bow sonar, told the technicians to back off, rolled up his sleeves and, invoking Jesus Christ, laid hands upon the balky equipment in an apparent effort to exorcise it and return it to its proper functioning.

The senior Petty Officer in the compartment picked him up by the seat and scruff, and physically ejected him from the compartment.

I gather no disciplinary action was taken.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10319
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Kanastrous wrote:A friend of mine served aboard USS Silversides, a Sturgeon-class attack sub (precursor to the Los Angeles-class boats).

He relates the tale of a Lieutenant J.G. who, during a difficult and frustrating repair job on some component of the bow sonar, told the technicians to back off, rolled up his sleeves and, invoking Jesus Christ, laid hands upon the balky equipment in an apparent effort to exorcise it and return it to its proper functioning.

The senior Petty Officer in the compartment picked him up by the seat and scruff, and physically ejected him from the compartment.

I gather no disciplinary action was taken.
The Omnissiah works in mysterious ways :D
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29211
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Post by General Zod »

Kanastrous wrote:
I gather no disciplinary action was taken.
That sounds like hearsay at best. Even if it were true, I'd hope the one who got punished would be the Lieutenant for being an idiot.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

General Zod wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:
I gather no disciplinary action was taken.
That sounds like hearsay at best. Even if it were true, I'd hope the one who got punished would be the Lieutenant for being an idiot.
Well, it's hearsay in that my friend saw it happen, and some years later, told me about what he says he saw.

He's never impressed me as the sort to make up stories, but y'all have to draw your own conclusions.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22466
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Post by Mr Bean »

Kanastrous wrote:A friend of mine served aboard USS Silversides, a Sturgeon-class attack sub (precursor to the Los Angeles-class boats).

He relates the tale of a Lieutenant J.G. who, during a difficult and frustrating repair job on some component of the bow sonar, told the technicians to back off, rolled up his sleeves and, invoking Jesus Christ, laid hands upon the balky equipment in an apparent effort to exorcise it and return it to its proper functioning.

The senior Petty Officer in the compartment picked him up by the seat and scruff, and physically ejected him from the compartment.

I gather no disciplinary action was taken.
Shame on that Petty Officer for not thinking of it first! And shame on that Lieutenant for ONLY invoking Jesus Christ!

Everyone knows to cast out demons from any military equipment you need Jesus, Yawenh, Budda, Allah AND Satan. Asking for help from Santa, the Tooth fairy and Tom Cruise can also work in a pinch. And if that fails, try hitting it.

Lonestar can back me up on how many problems that will fix(Assuming the traditional diagnostic method has failed you and/or the replacement part will take six months to get there)

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

"I used Repair Procedure Number One."

"Oh. You kicked it."
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13748
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Post by Tsyroc »

I thought everyone in the military knew that next to percusive maitenance that the best way to repair something is PFM (Pure Fucking Magic) and when it worked for me there was never any praying involved it just worked. :D
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Post by Sidewinder »

I remember dealing with evangelical soldiers in the Army, and attending church with them; I didn't have a problem as long as they weren't pulling rank. When the evangelist is of a higher rank than you, that's when a problem occurs (I learned this the hard way).
Tsyroc wrote:I thought everyone in the military knew that next to percusive maitenance that the best way to repair something is PFM (Pure Fucking Magic) and when it worked for me there was never any praying involved it just worked. :D
The correct term is Preventive Maintenance, Checks and Services, or PMCS (sometimes just PM).
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
User avatar
Lonestar
Keeper of the Schwartz
Posts: 13321
Joined: 2003-02-13 03:21pm
Location: The Bay Area

Post by Lonestar »

Mr Bean wrote:
Lonestar can back me up on how many problems that will fix(Assuming the traditional diagnostic method has failed you and/or the replacement part will take six months to get there)
Indeed, I was flat out told in the FCSM C School:
CTMC wrote: Pray for a solution? Son, you'll end up with a dead chicken hanging over that thing before your time with it is through.
...not exactly a warm and fuzzy for an E-3 on his way to a ship about the system he'll be maintaining.
Sidewinder wrote: The correct term is Preventive Maintenance, Checks and Services, or PMCS (sometimes just PM).
Get out.


Incidentally, I have invoked the "God of All Machines" before in the navy. My Chief was a woo-woo at the time and thought I was being serious when he asked me what I was talking about.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
User avatar
Ender
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11323
Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Location: Illinois

Post by Ender »

Mr Bean wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:A friend of mine served aboard USS Silversides, a Sturgeon-class attack sub (precursor to the Los Angeles-class boats).

He relates the tale of a Lieutenant J.G. who, during a difficult and frustrating repair job on some component of the bow sonar, told the technicians to back off, rolled up his sleeves and, invoking Jesus Christ, laid hands upon the balky equipment in an apparent effort to exorcise it and return it to its proper functioning.

The senior Petty Officer in the compartment picked him up by the seat and scruff, and physically ejected him from the compartment.

I gather no disciplinary action was taken.
Shame on that Petty Officer for not thinking of it first! And shame on that Lieutenant for ONLY invoking Jesus Christ!

Everyone knows to cast out demons from any military equipment you need Jesus, Yawenh, Budda, Allah AND Satan. Asking for help from Santa, the Tooth fairy and Tom Cruise can also work in a pinch. And if that fails, try hitting it.

Lonestar can back me up on how many problems that will fix(Assuming the traditional diagnostic method has failed you and/or the replacement part will take six months to get there)
I am always amazed at how often a good solid blow fixes something.

And if you had just had sufficent army men around it wouldn't break in the first place. They kill the gremlins after all.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
User avatar
CmdrWilkens
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9093
Joined: 2002-07-06 01:24am
Location: Land of the Crabcake
Contact:

Post by CmdrWilkens »

From working with heavy equipment I can say the most common fixes to any mechanical problem are, and remain: 1) Kick it, 2) Stop and start again, and 3) Give it more gas and the mysterious noise will be drowned by the engine operating.


As to religion again I've never experienced any of the crazy proslytizing so I'm officially meh on the subject as a whole.
Image
SDNet World Nation: Wilkonia
Armourer of the WARWOLVES
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. "
-Kingdom of Heaven
User avatar
Raptor 597
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3338
Joined: 2002-08-01 03:54pm
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana

Post by Raptor 597 »

The same goes for me, I haven't been approached by a chaplain once since I've been here at Hood and no one has ever gone around proslytizing in uniform that I've seen. Theres always a few civilian nutcases on post trying to get soldiers to go to their crazy churches.
Formerly the artist known as Captain Lennox

"To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me." - Sir Isaac Newton
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

I've heard that the USAF - particularly the Air Force Academy in Colorado - is the worst offender when it comes to prosyletizing, and making life miserable for anyone insufficiently Christian.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
Dargos
Jedi Knight
Posts: 963
Joined: 2002-08-30 07:37am
Location: At work
Contact:

Post by Dargos »

The two foot drop test has worked well for me over the years.
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
User avatar
Stile
Jedi Knight
Posts: 654
Joined: 2006-01-02 06:22pm
Location: Badger Central
Contact:

Post by Stile »

The smoke test is equally effective. Turn it on and whatever smokes is the faulty component.
Image
User avatar
Zwinmar
Jedi Master
Posts: 1110
Joined: 2005-03-24 11:55am
Location: nunyadamnbusiness

Post by Zwinmar »

Yeah we had chaplains and the like, and the CO did say at times that he hoped to see us in church. However, when it came down to it, no one really gave a shit. We had more important things to worry about..like being shot at.
User avatar
Big Orange
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7108
Joined: 2006-04-22 05:15pm
Location: Britain

Post by Big Orange »

Kanastrous wrote:A friend of mine served aboard USS Silversides, a Sturgeon-class attack sub (precursor to the Los Angeles-class boats).

He relates the tale of a Lieutenant J.G. who, during a difficult and frustrating repair job on some component of the bow sonar, told the technicians to back off, rolled up his sleeves and, invoking Jesus Christ, laid hands upon the balky equipment in an apparent effort to exorcise it and return it to its proper functioning.
This is the 21st century, not the 41st millennium Where There is Only War! :wtf:

Why are cranks like that allowed into the armed services around highly sophisticated equipment with fuck all religious mojo involved in their workings?
User avatar
Julhelm
Jedi Master
Posts: 1468
Joined: 2003-01-28 12:03pm
Location: Brutopia
Contact:

Post by Julhelm »

We always did the norwegian reset: Kill the main power switch, then turn it on again after 5 seconds. Works equally well with everything from radar networks to CNC machines.
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Big Orange wrote:This is the 21st century, not the 41st millennium Where There is Only War! :wtf:

Why are cranks like that allowed into the armed services around highly sophisticated equipment with fuck all religious mojo involved in their workings?
I would think that if you banned people who believed in all four syllables of Jesus from joining the Army, you'd have trouble meeting your enlistment goals in alot of places.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Durandal
Bile-Driven Hate Machine
Posts: 17927
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:26pm
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Durandal »

The armed forces get away with a lot of shit because they cloak it in the image of "promoting unity and cohesion". That's why gays can't serve in the military openly. It might upset the men. That's why Christians get preferential treatment. If they didn't, it would upset unit cohesion. That's why women can't be equal soldiers to men. The men might get aroused.

And of course, given today's political climate, if you say, "The troops should just learn to deal with gays, women and non-Christians", you're an asshole who doesn't support the troops. It's amazing how the Army makes you get up at the ass-crack of dawn, run 20 miles, do drills, feeds you slop, pay you shit, extend your tours and cut your leave time ... but they're oh so worried about your comfort when it comes to ewwwwww gays!
Damien Sorresso

"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Gil Hamilton wrote: I would think that if you banned people who believed in all four syllables of Jesus from joining the Army, you'd have trouble meeting your enlistment goals in alot of places.
You could also fix the enlistment quota thing by letting gays and women in.
User avatar
The_Saint
Jedi Knight
Posts: 798
Joined: 2007-05-05 04:13am
Location: Under Down Under

Post by The_Saint »

Old but always funny << the British let a sailor perform satanic rituals onboard... if you're going to hang a dead chicken above some equipment then you might as well put it up there first thing :D

Now... I'm aware that most ships up to a certain size don't come with a chapel... but the few military chapels that I do know of: they're all non-denominational and serve each religion as and when required.. I wonder how many people of other faith's would be happy with someone dicing up chickens and calling to satan in the same happy room that they pray to someone to protect them from him...??
All people are equal but some people are more equal than others.
Post Reply