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Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 12:53am
by General Soontir Fel
Short version: the non-Mandalorian parts comprise the best Karen Traviss book so far. Unfortunately, the Mandalorian parts take up at least half of the book, and as usual, they suck.

First, the good parts. Mara's Force Ghost finally shows up. Hopefully, there'll be a bit more in Invincible.

Captain Shevu's story arc was nice, and the space battle wad done pretty well--minus the Mando boarding party, of course.

The political stuff was decent. Essentially, the GA has been split between Jacen and Cha Niathal, who's set up a government in exile on Fondor.

The return of Daala and the death of Pellaeon could have been avoided, and the Daala part was plain old deus ex machina. But none of these things make the story horrible.

Sigh... Mandalorians. Who the heck introduced them to KT? How did she get the idea they were so awesome?

Jaina's Mandalorian training. It has moments, but then you look back, and ask: what did she actually learn?. And the answer turns out to be:
How to become a temporary psychopath. Yes, KT actually uses the word. Basically, you shut your feelings down and treat the opponent as an object to get through, at any cost.

That's it. Everything else she "learns" is your typical pulled-out-of-KT's-ass-and-attributed-to-Fett-and-the-Mandalorians bullshit. Try this on for size:
Boba Fett on page 368 wrote:Because if I put him down like the vermin deserves, your family can blame that rotten Boba Fett again when the truth wears off, when you need an excuse to stop feeling bad about what you had to do.
Yes. The reason Jaina has to be the one that kills Jacen is so that the family has no excuse to blame anyone else. And KT clearly thinks Fett is admirable for forcing her to do this.

Traviss's anti-Jedi crap fills almost the entire last quarter of the book. Like this:
page 347 wrote:"I think there can be a third way," she said. "No Jedi Council. Keep them in their box, away from politics, and certainly never arm them.
"Ordinary barves running their own affairs? You crazy woman, Daala. It'll never catch on."
Yes, KT made Admiral Daala, who gassed dozens of officers when they refused to obey her, who, in this very book, hired Mandalorians to assassinate Moffs she didn't like, an advocate of democracy.

Daala also wants Fett's "consulting services" in that aspect (i.e. how to defeat Jedi). This is when you really want to be able to step into the pages of the novel and remind everyone of the Sarlacc incident.

Mando'a, of course, is still nothing more than a code for English with tons of apostrophes it always was, and I really hate the beskar (or however it is called) iron, first, because it's a bad concept, and second, because it is responsible for Mirta-Sue (Boba Fett's granddaughter) not getting sliced in half by a lightsaber. Because, in KT's world, we just can't have anything bad happen to the Fett family, unless it can be milked for anti-Jedi propaganda.

Also, in the previous books, we got the background on Fett: he left his wife when his daughter was a baby, the daughter hated him and raised her own daughter to hate him and try to kill him. Well... wrong. I mean, Fett is awesome, and can't be a bad husband or father. (I'm exaggerating here; Fett does reflect back on his life, and notes that they had marital problems, and that he never returned and saw his family.) However, the actual reason Fett left was...

because his superior officer raped his wife, and he killed him, and then wouldn't tell the court why he did it.

And Fett and his wife are going to get back together. And she's still young, so they might have another kid down the line. I don't think there's anything planned post-LOTF, but if KT does any of it, it's almost guaranteed.

And with this book, my hope that KT's pet Jedi from the Republic Commando series who fell in love with clones would die when the clones got Order 66 is gone. No surprise, but some disappointment. Both the Jedi who left the Order to become a Mando, and the son of the Jedi who fell in love with a clone are still alive.

The only good thing I have to say is that I'm glad KT isn't finishing the series. The last thing we need is for Mandalorians to save the day directly.

The series overall would be better if the authors wrote it in a differnet order. If it was Traviss, Denning, Allston, each triple would have books improve, and we could hope for the final book to be the best one of the series (Allston's books are the best not just because he is a better writer and has better grasp on the characters, but also because he doesn't have to deal with the Mandalorian crap leftover from the book preceding his).

This is a new low. (OK, not quite. The Crystal Star and the Dark Empire comics still stand out.) But... with all this baggage built up, expecting anything on the level of even, say, The Truce at Bakura in the post-ROTJ EU is stupid. I doubt I'll read anything that takes place after Invincible, because I don't care any more.

Posted: 2008-03-05 01:23am
by JME2
I'm 2/3 through and it's taking every effort to keep going. Mandalorian fanwank, the death of another beloved EU character in less than a year at KT's hands (knew from the pre-release spoilers), Daala's return - if the EU hadn't jumped the shark before, it certainly has now. It doesn't even feel like the penultimate novel of the series; with the NJO, at least you got the sense that the end was coming after Destiny's Way. Anyway, if the remaining novel is every bit the same as the first 2/3, then Denning had better hit a fucking home run out of the park with Invincible.

Re: Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 02:10am
by Havok
General Soontir Fel wrote:First, the good parts. Mara's Force Ghost finally shows up. Hopefully, there'll be a bit more in Invincible.
How is that good? A second rate Force user gets to come back as a Force ghost and further cheapen what the Jedi, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin, from the movies accomplished. :roll:

Re: Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 02:42am
by General Soontir Fel
havokeff wrote:
General Soontir Fel wrote:First, the good parts. Mara's Force Ghost finally shows up. Hopefully, there'll be a bit more in Invincible.
How is that good? A second rate Force user gets to come back as a Force ghost and further cheapen what the Jedi, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin, from the movies accomplished. :roll:
How the hell does it cheapen what they did?

Posted: 2008-03-05 02:44am
by VT-16
Invincible has Mandalorian über-fighters take out an SSD.

Hope I ruined something for those of you who still bother with this.

Posted: 2008-03-05 02:47am
by Fingolfin_Noldor
VT-16 wrote:Invincible has Mandalorian über-fighters take out an SSD.

Hope I ruined something for those of you who still bother with this.
I want to see how that fucking "Ewok whose bloody name is riddled with so much ridicule and has an IQ and honesty of a dead rat" tries to wriggle out an explanation for that.

Re: Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 02:55am
by Darth Hoth
General Soontir Fel wrote:
havokeff wrote:
General Soontir Fel wrote:First, the good parts. Mara's Force Ghost finally shows up. Hopefully, there'll be a bit more in Invincible.
How is that good? A second rate Force user gets to come back as a Force ghost and further cheapen what the Jedi, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin, from the movies accomplished. :roll:
How the hell does it cheapen what they did?
I think he means that from Ep III it appears GL wanted the Ghost ability to be very special and rare. Unfortunately for him, Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi have already disproved this... :twisted:

Re: Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 03:17am
by General Soontir Fel
Darth Hoth wrote:
General Soontir Fel wrote:
havokeff wrote: How is that good? A second rate Force user gets to come back as a Force ghost and further cheapen what the Jedi, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin, from the movies accomplished. :roll:
How the hell does it cheapen what they did?
I think he means that from Ep III it appears GL wanted the Ghost ability to be very special and rare. Unfortunately for him, Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi have already disproved this... :twisted:
I don't recall Force Ghosts in Tales of the Jedi or Dark Empire. Sith spirits bound in their tombs, and Jedi Holocrons with an imprint of the maker, but not the types of ghosts we had in the movies.

I do recall Rahn appearing as a Force Ghost in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, though.

It still doesn't happen to every Jedi on the block. Having looked up the list on Wookieepedia, I have to say it makes more sense for Mara to be there than most of the others.

Re: Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 04:48am
by Darth Hoth
General Soontir Fel wrote:I don't recall Force Ghosts in Tales of the Jedi or Dark Empire. Sith spirits bound in their tombs, and Jedi Holocrons with an imprint of the maker, but not the types of ghosts we had in the movies.

I do recall Rahn appearing as a Force Ghost in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, though.

It still doesn't happen to every Jedi on the block. Having looked up the list on Wookieepedia, I have to say it makes more sense for Mara to be there than most of the others.
No, but since GL has now ret-conned it so that all Jedi who disappear on death become Ghosts, that still means that every senior Master dead in Tales of the Jedi, and even very minor Force-users such as Jem Ysanna in Dark Empire II, became Force Ghosts. There goes the rare, powerful ability...

(And as for Ghosts not appearing in TotJ, we have Knight Andur Sunrider, Master Arca Jeth (who did not return, but according to the other Jedi should have but for his disappointment in Ulic), Ghost essences captured in Sith crystals...)

Posted: 2008-03-05 05:34am
by Lord Poe
The only way Denning could redeem any of this is to have Jacen easily decapitate Jania as she comes at him with her Mando skills.

The only thing that would make sense is to have Han Solo take Jacen out with a well placed blaster shot while Jacen is killing Jania.

Posted: 2008-03-05 06:52am
by Darth Onasi
VT-16 wrote:Invincible has Mandalorian über-fighters take out an SSD.

Hope I ruined something for those of you who still bother with this.
Christ, and I thought the whole bit with the Mandalorians on the Ravager in KOTOR II was wanky.

Posted: 2008-03-05 07:49am
by VT-16
I want to see them pull out their bath'lets and go on a rampage through the interior, taking out the thousands of personnel who have no way of penetrating their wank-armor and are overwhelmed by their superior tactics of running straight forward. :P

Posted: 2008-03-05 08:33am
by Shroom Man 777
Jar-Jar should appear as a force ghost.

Posted: 2008-03-05 09:23am
by Darth Hoth
[Insert crappy Jacen-style joke (as per Young Jedi Knights) about Mandalorians here]

Posted: 2008-03-05 11:35am
by Kuja
Sweet hydra, I am ever more glad that I got the fuck out during the Vong trainwreck. This shit doesn't even come across as novels anymore, just sci-fi fucking gossip magazines. God it hurts to see how far Star Wars has fallen with such shitheads running the show.

Re: Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 11:42am
by Illuminatus Primus
Darth Hoth wrote: I think he means that from Ep III it appears GL wanted the Ghost ability to be very special and rare. Unfortunately for him, Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi have already disproved this... :twisted:
Where were there left-and-right ghosts in Dark Empire? There was only the Holocron and its not a real person. Likewise with Tales?

EDIT: Dark Empire II is not Dark Empire. Furthermore, the very FILMS make it that some Jedi who do not disappear do become Force ghosts (Qui-Gon). It is already established that vanishing != becomes a Force ghost. They are associated, but not bound phenomena. And furthermore, Dark Empire (the first) was nowhere near as shitty as this, and GL loved Dark Empire and distributed it to his employees for free on Christmas. So there.

Posted: 2008-03-05 02:09pm
by Mange
VT-16 wrote:Invincible has Mandalorian über-fighters take out an SSD.

Hope I ruined something for those of you who still bother with this.
VT, please say that you're joking. The crushergaunt is bad enough, but that?

Re: Revelation review

Posted: 2008-03-05 03:22pm
by Darth Hoth
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Where were there left-and-right ghosts in Dark Empire? There was only the Holocron and its not a real person. Likewise with Tales?

EDIT: Dark Empire II is not Dark Empire. Furthermore, the very FILMS make it that some Jedi who do not disappear do become Force ghosts (Qui-Gon). It is already established that vanishing != becomes a Force ghost. They are associated, but not bound phenomena. And furthermore, Dark Empire (the first) was nowhere near as shitty as this, and GL loved Dark Empire and distributed it to his employees for free on Christmas. So there.
Poorly quoted by me: of course I should have said Dark Empire II from the start. My humble apologies to everyone whom I confused.

I have not disputed the fact that one might become a Force Ghost without one's body disappearing; however, this does not mean that one does not necessarily become a Ghost if vanishing.

Dark Empire is not even close to anything in Legacy of the Force in sheer crappiness; in fact, personally I rather like it. I am aware that GL does as well; somewhat ironic, given that the movie purists are usually the ones to revile it. Neither changes the fact that Dark Empire II disables the assertion that Force Ghost was a rare special ability, as even the most primitive shamans on a backward world, and a junior one among them at that, had mastered it.

Posted: 2008-03-05 07:17pm
by (name here)
I'm going to have to stop reading these threads until my headache clears.

I actually kinda liked the vong, but it is clear that their plan of infecting the galaxy with the crazy-stupid virus was so succesful it spread to the worldships. at least, that's my theory.

Posted: 2008-03-05 07:28pm
by Darth Onasi
I loathe the Vong, as I truly despise the kind of biowank "zomg our primitive technology is no match for their LIVING SHIPS OF DOOM" baloney they represent.
Granted, I never much liked the EU to begin with. George Lucas gave them a whole galaxy to work with and they concentrated on the same damn characters so much it became totally incestuous.

Posted: 2008-03-05 09:44pm
by Karmic Knight
Darth Onasi wrote:Granted, I never much liked the EU to begin with. George Lucas gave them a whole galaxy to work with and they concentrated on the same damn characters so much it became totally incestuous.
I agree with you there, I find my favorite books & short stories are the ones involving non-main characters.
VT-16 wrote: Invincible has Mandalorian über-fighters take out an SSD.

Hope I ruined something for those of you who still bother with this.
Jesus Fucking Christ, if the number of people who take it out has less than seven zeros at the end of it, I will be disappointed.

Posted: 2008-03-05 11:17pm
by DrMckay
I just wish Allston would write more x-wing books. Would it be so bad to have another book about Wedge and the other Rouges? ie: non-Force-adept/Speeeecial people.

I for one find it far more interesting...

Reviews

Posted: 2008-03-06 06:17am
by QuentinGeorge
If you only read one review, read YodaKenobi's here (scroll down till you see it).

You'll be glad you did...

Posted: 2008-03-06 06:25am
by PainRack
Timothy Zahn apparently has a new book called allegiance, some story set post Yavin, with a young Mara Jade. After the degeneration seen in the general EU, I'm wondering whether Mara worship and miminalisation would once again be considered a good read.

Posted: 2008-03-06 07:17am
by VT-16
Karmic Knight wrote:Jesus Fucking Christ, if the number of people who take it out has less than seven zeros at the end of it, I will be disappointed.
You see, it's because the Mandalorian fighter hulls are über great compared to all other known starfighters produced by people with more experience of large-scale, open warfare for generations, because of...


...quantum.*

*Thanks to Sonnenburg for my new meme.