V-22 Orders Cut

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Sidewinder
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V-22 Orders Cut

Post by Sidewinder »

Strategy Page wrote:V-22 Orders Cut

April 10, 2008: The U.S. Department of Defense has changed its plans for V22 aircraft purchases, cutting the order from 202 to 167. The aircraft will cost $63 million each and be produced at the rate of about 33 a year. The Air Force Special Operations Command will get 26 CV-22 aircraft, while another 141 MV-22 aircraft will go to the U.S. Marine Corps.

Earlier plans called for the purchase of 171 MV-22 aircraft for the marines, and 31 for air force SOCOM (Special Operations Command) units. The plan would have had up to 35 V-22s a year produced, from 2008 to 2013.

The U.S. Air Force component of SOCOM will use the CV-22 to replace the current MH-53J special operations helicopters. The CV-22, unlike the U.S. Marine Corps version, the MV-22, will have lots more expensive electronics on board. This will help the CV-22 when traveling into hostile territory. The CV-22 also carries a terrain avoidance radar, an additional 900 gallons of fuel and more gadgets in general. The 25 ton CV-22 is a major improvement on the MH-53, with three times the range, and a higher cruising speed (at 410 kilometers an hour, twice that of the helicopter). The CV-22 can travel about nearly a thousand kilometers, in any weather, and land or pick up 18 fully equipped commandoes.

On the downside, the V-22 is several years behind schedule. It's a very complex aircraft, and has encountered more development problems than expected. This is the first application of the tilt-rotor technology to do active service. The air force is already working on improvements (to make the V22 more reliable and easier to maintain), that won't be installed for another five years. The CV-22 will give SOCOM a lot more capability, but, as it often the case, it will be a lot more expensive. The initial production models will cost close to $100 million each. SOCOM insists on a high degree of reliability for its aircraft. Commando operations cannot tolerate too many mistakes without getting fatally derailed. The V-22 has not been noted for high reliability. It's a very complex piece of work.

The Navy MV-22s can carry 24 troops 700 kilometers (vertical take-off on a ship, level flight, landing, and return) at 390 kilometers an hour. The V-22 is replacing the CH-46E helicopter, which can carry 12 troops 350 kilometers at a speed of 135 kilometers an hour. The V-22 can carry a 10,000-pound external sling load 135 kilometers, while the CH-46E can carry 3,000 pounds only 90 kilometers.

The marines began using the MV-22 in Iraq late last year, and have been satisfied with the results. The SOCOM CV-22 won't ready for combat for another year.
NOW the Pentagon realizes the V-22 is a fucking albatross hanging from the generals' collective necks. It would've been good to say, "Better late than never," if the US government didn't already spend BILLIONS on that piece of shit hybrid, not to mention the lives of all those marines. :roll:
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Post by MKSheppard »

Hey sidewinder; don't act like the Marines are innocents to be sacrificed.

The Marine Corps Leadership and it's huge stack of IOUs on Capitol Hill and it's efficient propaganda machine that would put Stalin to shame is the ONLY reason the V-22 has survived the umpteen cancellations that have been tried on it...the Corps has staked their huge prestige on this project working.
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Re: V-22 Orders Cut

Post by MKSheppard »

I love this quote:

The V-22 is replacing the CH-46E helicopter, which can carry 12 troops 350 kilometers at a speed of 135 kilometers an hour. The V-22 can carry a 10,000-pound external sling load 135 kilometers, while the CH-46E can carry 3,000 pounds only 90 kilometers.

There's a reason you only see a comparison between the V-22 and a 40 year old CH-46 SEA KNIGHT by the Corps.

Because it makes the V-22 look like a great improvement, forgetting that the H-92 SUPERHAWK can carry 10,000 pounds that same distance; and for only a mere $30 million;
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

MKSheppard wrote:Hey sidewinder; don't act like the Marines are innocents to be sacrificed.
They still are. That the brass that got them killed was Marine Corps brass doesn't make their deaths any less tragic.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Imperial Overlord wrote:That the brass that got them killed was Marine Corps brass doesn't make their deaths any less tragic.
But every marine is a rifleman!!!
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Post by K. A. Pital »

So, they finally found out the V-22 sucks? Took a long time. Yeah, it's really strange why it hasn't been cancelled earlier, I bet a lot of lobbying went on.
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Post by Sidewinder »

Stas Bush wrote:So, they finally found out the V-22 sucks? Took a long time. Yeah, it's really strange why it hasn't been cancelled earlier, I bet a lot of lobbying went on.
There was, but the people doing the lobbying were morons. For comparison, when the RAH-66 Comanche was cancelled, the Pentagon placated the main contractors, Boeing and Sikorsky, by buying more Chinooks (Boeing product) and Blackhawks (Sikorsky product). (Why do so? For one thing, these companies might lobby protests to senators from states where these companies have lots of employees/voters. For another, the Pentagon does NOT want to let US military contractors to go out of business and force the US to rely on FOREIGN NATIONS for vital services and products.) The Pentagon could've placated the V-22's main contractors by buying even more Chinooks, Cobras, and Hueys (Bell).

Unfortunately, dumbass marine officers INSISTED that the V-22 was the only bird whose performance met their needs. (I believe Shep already explained why those needs were stupidly defined in another thread.) Why couldn't the Boeing 347 fill those needs? If Bell wants a contract, why not have them manufacture Boeing 347 subcomponents?

Oh, right. The USMC is a lean service, so they must have untested technology that attempts to shoehorn two different modes of flight into one airframe, no matter how unsuccessful it is or how great a compromise it requires from both modes.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Post by Ryan Thunder »

MKSheppard wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:That the brass that got them killed was Marine Corps brass doesn't make their deaths any less tragic.
But every marine is a rifleman!!!
I'm curious, are you serious when you act like this, or is it just a joke? :?

I mean, sure, sometimes accidents cost lives. You can't really hold it against them. It doesn't make it any less tragic that they were lost to begin with, though.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

That’s a tiny cut, and probably reflects yet MORE cost overruns in production rather then any change in priorities or love of one of the worse aircraft ever built.
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