Australian Gov't decides to dehydrate the nation to death.

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Australian Gov't decides to dehydrate the nation to death.

Post by weemadando »

ABC News wrote:Wong 'waiting for advice' on Murray-Darling crisis


Federal Minister for Water and Climate Change Senator Penny Wong says she is waiting for urgent departmental advice on what more may be done to help save the lower Murray-Darling river system.

Senator Wong spoke to The World Today after a stark warning from scientists about conditions in the system was leaked to the ABC.

The warning is contained in a report by the Natural Resource Management Board of the South Australian Murray-Darling Basin and was handed to ministers in May.

It says if action is not taken to increase water flows in the next six months, parts of the lower river system will die.

The report set an October deadline for action, but federal and state water ministers are not scheduled to meet until November.

At least four scientists on the government-appointed panel have told the ABC they are unhappy about what they say is the lack of prompt action to avert the impending crisis.

"It is a report that does tell us yet again how urgent it is to deal with the lower lakes and the Coorong," Senator Wong said.

"There are current interim measures, which is the pumping of water into Lake Albert, and I have asked my Department for further urgent advice about what we are able to do in the short term."

Senator Wong also says the problem has occurred over many years and is being exacerbated by the impacts of climate change.

But some scientists on the panel do not think governments appreciate the urgency of the situation.

They have told the ABC they are frustrated with what they see as feet-dragging on the issue.

National disaster

But South Australia's Minister for the River Murray Karlene Maywald says her state, with financial help from the Federal Government, has been working for months and spending millions of dollars pumping water back into the system.

"The State Government actually announced that we were doing this interim pumping project from Lake Albert, from Lake Alexandrina into Lake Albert to buy us time, through to perhaps September whilst this other work was undertaken," she said.

"And we made no secret of the fact that the Lake Albert in particular was at risk of major acidification and potentially total ecological collapse if we didn't act immediately.

"We took that action earlier this year, that pumping project is under way, it's not something this Government wants to do, it is something we've had to do as a consequence of the drought."

But she calls it a national disaster and says South Australia cannot alone save the parts of the Murray River that cross its borders.

New South Wales Water Minister Nathan Rees says the four basin states are making history but it does take time.

"The water purchases for the river health have already started and it's been in play for some months now," he said.

"The reality here [is] we don't fix 100 years of poor decision-making in a matter of months. And whilst we can make all the buy-backs we like now with the money that is available, if the water is not there because it hasn't rained, then we can't create it."

And his Victorian counterpart Tim Holdings also denies governments have been sitting on their hands.

"In fact earlier this year at the Murray Darling Basin Commission, ministers endorsed a plan to provide emergency watering for Lake Alexandrina and Lake Albert in the Coorong, in South Australia at the mouth of the Murray, and those measures were designed to deal with some of the very issues that this scientific evidence reveals - which is that the river is under huge stress in those areas," he said.

"We've also been returning hundreds of billions of litres of water to the Murray River as part of the Living Murray initiative.

"Victoria is on track to deliver its commitment under the Living Murray initiative and we've been able to release water, even in the midst of our worst drought ever, we've been able to release water for strategic environmental watering along a number of icon sites and that's meant that places like the Barmah Forest and other parts of the Murray that are critically endangered have been able to receive some water, even in the midst of this very difficult drought."

There's been no comment from Queensland's Water Minister but his spokesman does point out that his state only draws 3.5 per cent of water from the Murray Darling Basin.

The Greens say the response today from Government has not been good enough and Senator Christine Milne says the Murray Darling's epitaph could read: 'a lack of leadership killed this river'.

"The consequences of populist policies, the consequences of giving out $30 billion in tax cuts, are now being delivered on the nation with the death of the Murray River and the decision by both state and federal government ministers to defer consideration of the issue of the Murray, even though scientists have told them that the river is dying and in many cases will be irreparably damaged if we don't act now by putting water back in the river," she said.

"John Howard knew it, Mr Rudd knows it, Peter Garrett has done endless trips up the Murray while he was head of ACF, talking about the plight of the Murray.

"Now it's quite clear there's a deliberate strategy to give out tax cuts but not put water back in the river. They all know that needs to happen. Over-allocation has caused the death of the Murray and now we're going to see the results of that.

"I don't think people in Australia are going to be very impressed with this lack of leadership."

Senator Wong objects. She says a problem that has been manifesting for years cannot be solved by a new government six months in.

And she says she will continue to spend the $3.1 billion allocated to buy back water from irrigators, but stresses there are no guarantees.

Adapted from a report by Tanya Nolan for The World Today.
So, all the reports say that October is the point of no return for the entire river system. If nothing happens by then, the entire system is beyond saving.

The government response to this? Delay talk of the issue until their next meeting. In November.
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

That's amazingly fucked up.
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Post by bobalot »

Irrigators have been taking too much water for too long. But no-one would dare take them on, not this government and not the old government. The political howling from country people would be too much political pain.

These same country people whine about dole bludgers in the city, while at the same time getting big taxpayer handouts and below market price rates for water.
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Post by Stark »

Shhh. You can't say anything mean about farmers. It's pretty much the law.

Oh Ando, how does the lack of coverage on this issue compare to the hilarious 'why doesn't Labor make oil cheaper' craziness? It's terrifying.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Time for you chaps to start investing in massive nuclear powerplants connected to equally massive desalination facilities.

..Oh, wait, you should have been doing that fifteen years ago.
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Post by Resinence »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Time for you chaps to start investing in massive nuclear powerplants connected to equally massive desalination facilities.

..Oh, wait, you should have been doing that fifteen years ago.
Anybody who's not an idiot has known this for years, the problem is that NIMBY's are still an extremely strong political force- no nuclear legislation passes, ever. It's hard enough to keep research reactors online, that are used for medical resources, due to the public hatred of anything nuc-u-lar. There was recently a decent sized push here in QLD for a water recycling plant, but once again it was shot down because "I DON'T WANT TO DRINK PISS AND SHIT". Basically, the public is completely ignorant of how big the problem really is, and won't accept any solutions because they are (again) ignorant of how they work. It really is getting quite dire.
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Post by Stuart Mackey »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Time for you chaps to start investing in massive nuclear powerplants connected to equally massive desalination facilities.

..Oh, wait, you should have been doing that fifteen years ago.
Try 25 to 30 years ago, they have known that this sort of thing can happen for the last hundred years or more and did nothing when the technology became viable.
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Post by weemadando »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Time for you chaps to start investing in massive nuclear powerplants connected to equally massive desalination facilities.

..Oh, wait, you should have been doing that fifteen years ago.
As mentioned time and time again on this board, Australian's won't support desalination plants because "like, that water's not natural, we're a country of abundant resources, why do we need desalination?"

They were going to build one here in Victoria, but that's pretty much out the window now due to the bullshit public outcry about how "we should build more dams! That'll fix the problem!"
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Post by Resinence »

They were going to build one here in Victoria, but that's pretty much out the window now due to the bullshit public outcry about how "we should build more dams! That'll fix the problem!"
And every time a new dam proposal is drafted up there is huge outcry that it is destroying large areas of farmland and/or animal habitats. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so infuriating.
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Post by Stark »

weemadando wrote:As mentioned time and time again on this board, Australian's won't support desalination plants because "like, that water's not natural, we're a country of abundant resources, why do we need desalination?"

They were going to build one here in Victoria, but that's pretty much out the window now due to the bullshit public outcry about how "we should build more dams! That'll fix the problem!"
Don't forget, can't reclaim water either. That's just not right!
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

weemadando wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Time for you chaps to start investing in massive nuclear powerplants connected to equally massive desalination facilities.

..Oh, wait, you should have been doing that fifteen years ago.
As mentioned time and time again on this board, Australian's won't support desalination plants because "like, that water's not natural, we're a country of abundant resources, why do we need desalination?"

They were going to build one here in Victoria, but that's pretty much out the window now due to the bullshit public outcry about how "we should build more dams! That'll fix the problem!"
You have the largest uranium supplies in the world and you're surrounded by lots of extremely natural water you just need to remove the salt from. I pity you, dying of dehydration in the midst of the very bounty they speak of, because they won't use it.
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Post by weemadando »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
weemadando wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Time for you chaps to start investing in massive nuclear powerplants connected to equally massive desalination facilities.

..Oh, wait, you should have been doing that fifteen years ago.
As mentioned time and time again on this board, Australian's won't support desalination plants because "like, that water's not natural, we're a country of abundant resources, why do we need desalination?"

They were going to build one here in Victoria, but that's pretty much out the window now due to the bullshit public outcry about how "we should build more dams! That'll fix the problem!"
You have the largest uranium supplies in the world and you're surrounded by lots of extremely natural water you just need to remove the salt from. I pity you, dying of dehydration in the midst of the very bounty they speak of, because they won't use it.
Yeah. The retard power in this nation is strong. And the problem is that the insane Right and insane Left have their powers combine on this issue. We need nuclear power, desal and water recycling if we are to survive the next century. Otherwise, we're on the way to desertification in no time flat, not to mention the complete toxification of what's left of our water systems, the loss of ecosystems and consequent destruction of agriculture.

Fuck, I might just move to Dubai. At least they aren't afraid of trying to develop modern infrastructure.

And just to top it off, they're continuing to deny expansion of the public transport networks (in Victoria at least), because - as we all know that having a massive outwardly sprawling city is best supported in this age of ever increasing oil prices and the likelihood of diminishing supply by instead spending money on building new freeways and tollroads.
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Post by Twoyboy »

weemadando wrote:As mentioned time and time again on this board, Australian's won't support desalination plants because "like, that water's not natural, we're a country of abundant resources, why do we need desalination?"

They were going to build one here in Victoria, but that's pretty much out the window now due to the bullshit public outcry about how "we should build more dams! That'll fix the problem!"
Also, the desal plant here in WA must be shut down if oxygen levels in the sound get too low, despite the fact that UWA did a study which showed that the operation of the plant has no effect on oxygen levels and the dissolved oxygen concentration in the desal discharge is higher than average for the sound.

I would love to see how a government fared if instead of playing to the popular vote it actually told people to fuck off with their uninformed opinions about desal, nuclear, etc. It would be amusing if nothing else.
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Post by PeZook »

:shock:

Wow. I had no idea the Australian public acted like lemmings.

"We want more water!"

"Okay, you can get more water. Just let us build nuclear plants and desal faiclities."

"No, we don't want those!"

"Okay, how about dams?"

"We don't want those either!"

"Hey, I know. Purification plants!"

"We don't want to drink our own piss!!!"

It's like Australians want to die out. Though I do remember the opposition to self-powered vehicles back in the day which was eerily similar.
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Post by Stark »

The most galling part is that MPs buy into it; they refuse to drink recyc, for instance, out of pure ignorance. THat's all the bogan majority needs to herd up and ignore reality.
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Post by PeZook »

Stark wrote:The most galling part is that MPs buy into it; they refuse to drink recyc, for instance, out of pure ignorance. THat's all the bogan majority needs to herd up and ignore reality.
It occurs to me this is not the only case of general retardation amongst the populace. This one threatens to destroy an entire nation, but I remember several cases here in Poland where people complained about crime, and when the police decided to open new precincts in their neighborhoods...there were massive protests.

Because we want solutions to our problems - magical solutions which involve absolutely no inconvenience whatsoever on any level.

Oh, there's also a water thing in my very own city: people complain about water quality. Water company announces it will open new water processing plant and refurbish some distribution infrastructure.

"But they stink! And they will have to close down pipelines sometimes! We may not have water at 2 A.M. from time to time!"

Massive protests ensue. In this case, though, the city and the water company decided to fuck them and did the investment anyway.

Net result? The water treatment plant is build, it stinks a bit when you drive past it, and you can drink water straight from the tap and it's delicious.

For some reason, people have shut up since then. Somebody in Australia really needs to declare a state of emergency and do the same.
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Post by MKSheppard »

PeZook wrote::shock:

Wow. I had no idea the Australian public acted like lemmings.
Your post sounds eerily similar to here; just replace them with oil and gas themed stuff. :x
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Re: Australian Gov't decides to dehydrate the nation to deat

Post by thejester »

weemadando wrote: So, all the reports say that October is the point of no return for the entire river system. If nothing happens by then, the entire system is beyond saving.
No, the report says that the lower lakes system will die. Which is tragic and catastrophic, but a long way from the entire system going down the tube.

And, just quietly to all those bleating about how Australians want to die out and are ruled by a bogan majority blah blah blah: Perth has a desal plant, Adelaide and Melbourne are getting one. But why let the facts get in the way of a bit of hysteria amirit?
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Post by Chris OFarrell »

So is Sydney, but the plants are generally facing absurd opposition by Bogan idiots for no real reason that makes sense in all cases.

Of course, right now, I'm finding far more amusement in watching news report after news report of idiots at petrol stations screaming that gas prices are 'ridiculous' and screaming for the Governenment to snap its fingers like Q and make it all go away.

The thing is, Australia is really in a great position (relative to a LOT of the rest of the world) to survive the chaos that may well come down the line. A relativly small population, huge natural resources, solid scientific R&D capabilities e.t.c.

Just a lot of fucking morons with zero long term planning or actual understanding of the issues. The NIMBY anti nuclear brigade are just fucking staggering, I blame Bob Brown and the fucking Greens.


On topic, if you want to put more water in the system, then fucking make it ILLEGAL to grow crops as insanely water demanding as RICE, fucking RICE in the middle of this system! Look at opening Rice Paddies in the ares the damn crop is DESIGNED to grow, the tropical north coastal areas or something, where there is more rain then you know what to do with! We need to look at getting rid of the sick joke that is growing rice in the worst drought affected areas, then have farmers come crying when we start to take away their water...
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Post by Stark »

It's actually made more amusing by the Opposition. They say hilarious things like 'Kevin Rudd isn't making oil cheaper using his genie powers' and 'holy shit inflation Labor sucks, what global economic crisis'. :)
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Post by PeZook »

Stark wrote:It's actually made more amusing by the Opposition. They say hilarious things like 'Kevin Rudd isn't making oil cheaper using his genie powers' and 'holy shit inflation Labor sucks, what global economic crisis'. :)
Same thing is happening here. "Government should make gas cheap again!"

People scream on television how the government should lower the gas tax because OMG the gas is only 1.80 zlotys (a liter costs 4.6 zlotys, or about 2.3 dollars right now) without taxes!!! Five minutes later, you get people complaining on the air about the budget deficit and bad roads. Obviously, elliminating the gas tax will make it all better :roll:

Truck drivers have actually blocked roads throughout the country in order to protest the rising gas prices. Because many of them can barely make a living as it is! Do something, government! But remember that you're bad, too, and shouldn't meddle in things! Except for these times when things are bad!

For added hilarity: there are lots of recently-purchased ultra-expensive SUVs and pickup trucks on the road. A huge pickup truck costs a typical Pole three times as much as a small compact, and sucks up twice as much fuel.

The conclusion is real easy. 90% of people are complete idiots.
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Post by Mayabird »

PeZook, your story about the water treatment plant explained the point I was going to make. Whenever people start talking about making any sort of change (infrastructure improvement, new way of doing something, whatever) everybody gets up in arms and starts screaming "NOOOOOOOO!" like Darth Vader just told them who their daddy is.

But if whoever's in charge just plows ahead and does it, so long as it's not a completely idiotic idea that'll screw over everyone, within a couple years no one will know the difference or care anymore. It's just like debates I've seen for opt-out organ donor systems or the debate about adding Braille to American money: people might get up in arms, but it's a better system and after it's implemented, within a year 99% of the people won't care anymore, and that includes the whiners.

I think some people complain just to complain, and something new is something to complain about. But once it's not new, there's nothing to complain about.
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Post by Vympel »

Of course, right now, I'm finding far more amusement in watching news report after news report of idiots at petrol stations screaming that gas prices are 'ridiculous' and screaming for the Governenment to snap its fingers like Q and make it all go away.
Don't get me started. I love the Daily Telegraph articles of "Aussie battlers" with all their rug rats assembled in front of their McMansion with dour looks on their faces, with their mewling about petrol prices on display and demanding some sort of action.

Like what, dipshit? It's not like I (or other rational people) haven't noticed that filling up my car used to be a matter of less than $50, now it's more than $60. Shit happens, oil is in short supply. Stop fucking whinging and get over it. There's a reason I pay $41 for a weekly train ticket to get to work every week. Because you'd have to be insane to drive from Hurstville to Parramatta, then pay for tolls, then pay for parking.
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Post by Chardok »

you should announce that you've created a non-nuclear way to slame oxygen and hydrogen together to created water from AIR. siphon eleventy billion dollars off of the budget for building loads of the magic facilities under gigantic tarps, then unveil them all at the same time and go "Psych, they're nuclear and desal plants. You're welcome, dickheads."
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Post by cosmicalstorm »

I know little about this problem, what future is Australia in general looking at if they dont get their heads out of their asses and starts to do things about the water shortage?
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