Clinton playing games with Obama at DNC

[Ender]

link

Sen. Hillary Clinton told a gathering of supporters last week that she's looking for a "strategy" for her delegates to have their voices heard and "respected" at the Democratic National Convention -- and did not rule out the possibility of having her name placed into nomination at the convention alongside Sen. Barack Obama's.

"I happen to believe that we will come out stronger if people feel that their voices were heard and their views were respected. I think that is a very big part of how we actually come out unified," Clinton, D-N.Y., said at a California fundraiser last Thursday, in a video clip captured by an attendee and posted on YouTube.

"Because I know from just what I'm hearing, that there's incredible pent up desire. And I think that people want to feel like, 'OK, it's a catharsis, we're here, we did it, and then everybody get behind Sen. Obama.' That is what most people believe is the best way to go," she said.

"No decisions have been made. And so we are trying to work all this through with the DNC and with the Obama campaign."

Clinton's comments shed some light on a fierce behind-the-scenes squabble between the Clinton and Obama camps over how to recognize Clinton and her achievements in the primaries without overshadowing or detracting from a convention that belongs to Obama.

Clinton's Role Being Negotiated

The New York Daily News reported Friday that Clinton has decided not to submit a signed request to the DNC to have her name put into nomination; party rules require such a move for a candidate to be voted on.

But Clinton aides continue to say publicly that such details are still being discussed in consultations among the Clinton camp, the Obama campaign and the Democratic National Committee.

"No decisions have been made," Clinton spokeswoman Kathleen Strand said.

"Sen. Clinton is 100 percent committed to helping Barack Obama become the next president of the United States," Strand added. "She is very appreciative of the continued commitment of her supporters and understands there are passionate feelings around the convention. While no decisions have been made at this time, they will be made collaboratively with Sen. Clinton and her staff, the DNC and Sen. Obama's campaign and released at the appropriate time."

Sources close to both Obama and Clinton told ABC News that the New York senator is highly unlikely to allow her name to be formally submitted for a roll-call vote on the convention floor. The Obama campaign wants to avoid such a vote, since it would underscore the party's splits and remind voters of the divisive primary campaign between the two Democrats.

The refusal to publicly announce her intentions is widely seen as a bargaining chip Clinton is holding on to as party officials negotiate logistics regarding her convention speech and other activities, according to several Democrats who are closely involved in the matter.

Clinton plans to hold a Web chat with supporters Thursday afternoon where she might clarify her convention role. In announcing the Web chat, she urged her supporters to continue to stay tuned to her Web site for updates about her convention activities.

But the very fact that details of her convention role remain unresolved less than three weeks before the Democrats descend upon Denver is a fresh sign of the difficulties the party will face at a convention when nearly half the delegates were chosen because of their support for a candidate who will not be the nominee.

History provides little guidance: In the modern convention era, the delegate count for the two leading candidates has never been this close.

Lanny Davis, a longtime friend and supporter of the Clintons, called the idea of putting Clinton's name into nomination a "completely idiotic idea that leads to nothing but party disharmony."

Still, the fact that some Clinton supporters are clamoring for a chance to vote for her at the convention is partly Obama's fault, he said. Davis, who described himself as "100 percent behind Obama" in the general election, said Obama should be doing more -- in symbolic and substantive gestures -- to make clear he values and needs the support of former Clinton supporters.

"It's a reflection of genuine frustration by Hillary Clinton supporters that Sen. Obama seems to have forgotten about 18 million voters," Davis said. "My concern about Sen. Obama is he doesn't recognize that the outreach to the Clinton grass roots has to be more visible, more overt, as well as more symbolic."

The two camps have worked cooperatively on a draft of the party platform, and Clinton is set to hit the campaign trail for Obama on Friday, appearing by herself at an Obama event in Nevada.

And party leaders are coming together to help retire her campaign debt, with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid scheduled to headline a fundraiser on her behalf Sept. 17.

Still, some Clinton loyalists have complained that Obama hasn't done enough to help Clinton pay off the debt she amassed during the primaries.

Davis said that if Obama won't name Clinton as his running mate, he could at least designate her the convention's keynote speaker. Clinton will get a choice prime-time slot Tuesday night, but no decisions have been announced regarding the keynote address.

"Her supporters want -- after 18 million votes, and the record of success from March 1 through June 1 -- to feel recognized, and I think we should," Davis said.

Clinton is facing pressure from some of her die-hard supporters to request that her name to be placed into nomination.

Several groups of Clinton supporters are organizing marches and demonstrations in Denver. Major events are being planned for Aug. 26, the date Clinton is slated to speak at the convention -- which happens to be the 88th anniversary of the ratification of the constitutional amendment guaranteeing women's suffrage.

Susan Castner, a Clinton delegate from Portland, Ore., is gathering the 300 signatures from delegates that Clinton would need in case she decides she wants to be part of convention balloting.

"We will have this in hand for Sen. Clinton, should this be needed," said Castner, who said that she's already gathered about half the necessary signatures.

Castner said she and many other Clinton supporters will only feel as if their voices are being heard if they are allowed to vote for Clinton on a first ballot.

"It's been a tradition since the late 1800s -- it's a nominating convention, you vote, you nominate someone, and you come out unified. I don't see how alienating 1,800 delegates gives you party unity when we walk out of the stadium," she said. "Hillary delegates feel like we're not welcome, needed, or valued."

"I cannot believe that Sen. Clinton, after putting in that much time, energy and effort, would just say, ' Nah, take my name out,' " Castner said.

Some Clinton backers have even speculated that a roll call could result in a Clinton victory, though Clinton herself has said such an outcome is nearly impossible. Many Clinton delegates have followed their candidate's lead and are fully supporting Obama's candidacy, so Clinton will likely wind up with fewer votes in a roll call than her delegate total as of the final primaries June 3.

"What we want to have happen is for Sen. Obama to be nominated by a unified convention of Democrats," Clinton said at the California fundraiser last week. "And as I have said, the best way I think -- and I could be wrong -- but the best way I think to do that is to have a strategy so that my delegates feel like they have a role, and that their legitimacy has been validated."

She added: "It's as old as, you know, as Greek drama. You know, there is a catharsis. I mean, everybody comes and, you know, they want to yell and scream and have their opportunity, and I think that's all to the good. Because then, you know, everybody can go, 'OK, great, now let's go out and win.' "

"And that's what we want people to feel. We do not want any Democrat either in the hall or in the stadium or at home walking away saying, 'Well, you know, I'm just not satisfied, I'm not happy.' Because, I mean, that's what I'm trying to avoid."

The clear challenge for Clinton, Obama, and the DNC is to allow for the Clinton delegates to feel satisfied and energized without undermining the legitimacy of Obama's nomination.

Nick Shapiro, an Obama campaign spokesman, downplayed reports of tension between the two camps.

"Sen. Clinton will play a critical role in this convention and is also playing a critical role in the campaign," Shapiro said. "She has campaigned for Obama, raised money for him and spoken on his behalf on several occasions. We appreciate and look forward to her continued support."

Christ, I thought this shit was over.

[SirNitram]

Won't be over until 2015, frankly.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Won't be over until 2015, frankly.

Mayan apocalypse?

[SirNitram]

Won't be over until 2015, frankly.

Mayan apocalypse?

No. It's a reference to Clinton expending effort to try and become President in the next term.

[Pelranius]

She's still probably having trouble paying off her primary campaign debts, I'd guess. Hillary probably thinks that if she throws a large enough temper tantrum, the DNC will just pay her off.

[Patrick Degan]

Lanny Davis, a longtime friend and supporter of the Clintons, called the idea of putting Clinton's name into nomination a "completely idiotic idea that leads to nothing but party disharmony."

Still, the fact that some Clinton supporters are clamoring for a chance to vote for her at the convention is partly Obama's fault, he said. Davis, who described himself as "100 percent behind Obama" in the general election, said Obama should be doing more -- in symbolic and substantive gestures -- to make clear he values and needs the support of former Clinton supporters.

Bullshit, Mr. Davis. This is not about Obama needing to outreach, which he is already doing. This is about some of you in the Clinton camp still unable to wrap your heads around the fact that Hillary LOST. Get over your fucking egos and your pretense that you still have some say in this beyond possibly derailing the party's chances in November by continuing to kick up a useless battle.

[Isolder74]

[Coyote]

Won't be over until 2015, frankly.

Mayan apocalypse?

That's sometime around December 22nd, 2012.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Won't be over until 2015, frankly.

Mayan apocalypse?

That's sometime around December 22nd, 2012.

Right, so that should be done by 2015

[Knife]

Won't be over until 2015, frankly.

Mayan apocalypse?

That's sometime around December 22nd, 2012.

And IIRC, your dog will bitch you out first.

[Ender]

Honestly it is probably a push to get herself the VP slot.

[General Zod]

This cartoon is more appropriate than ever.

[Gerald Tarrant]

Why would she want the VP slot? She'd have much more ability to actually influence the course of the country from the Senate.

[General Zod]

Why would she want the VP slot? She'd have much more ability to actually influence the course of the country from the Senate.

The VP slot means she's eligible to run for the Presidency after Obama serves his two terms as an incumbent.

[Gerald Tarrant]

Why would she want the VP slot? She'd have much more ability to actually influence the course of the country from the Senate.

The VP slot means she's eligible to run for the Presidency after Obama serves his two terms as an incumbent.

Uh, so would another term in the Senate. So does just about anything.

Also she'll be 69 in 2016, there are plenty of people raising concerns about McCain's age, 71. How exactly would a Vice President Clinton be immune from similar criticisms? A Senator Clinton can actually influence policy, a Vice-President Clinton goes and does photo-ops that the President can't be bothered with. And of course if President Obama made any serious blunders, Senator Clinton is in the perfect spot to run against him in the primaries without being tainted by his administration. She's got a perfectly safe seat in the senate with a job approval rating of 60% Link.

Why would she sacrifice that and the chance to make policy for the opportunity of playing second fiddle? The Senate would be a perfectly fine resume builder for a run against whomever Senator Obama chooses as his VP running mate.

[SirNitram]

I fully expect Clinton herself simply wants to cement her victory on the record and leverage it into influence. She's quite savvy.

Her high-name supporters, however, know they're basically nothing when she returns to the Senate. So they are playing up every tiny thing that they can, in the minds of the more fanatical and gullible, twist into a slight against her. See, it's a slight if Obama picks any woman for VP other than Clinton. That Glass Ceiling should stay, dammit, it should just have an entrance marked 'Clintons'! Also, it's a slight to fully re-instate Florida and Michigan at the convention now and not earlier. STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO LAWS AND RULES. HER NAME IS CLINTON. It goes on and on. Everything Obama does or tries will be a slight against the Lanny Davis' and Gerald Ferrino's of the world.

[Death from the Sea]

Also she'll be 69 in 2016

really? she is 61 now? wow, I guess I can see that but I just always thought of her as a 50-something year old woman.

even though she would be eligible in 2016 to run for president at age 69, would she want to? I mean most people want to enjoy some kind of retirement but then again I guess she doesn't have the hardest job in the world either...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Also she'll be 69 in 2016

really? she is 61 now? wow, I guess I can see that but I just always thought of her as a 50-something year old woman.

even though she would be eligible in 2016 to run for president at age 69, would she want to? I mean most people want to enjoy some kind of retirement but then again I guess she doesn't have the hardest job in the world either...

Well, tell that to John McCain, the "white haired dude".

[Death from the Sea]

Also she'll be 69 in 2016

really? she is 61 now? wow, I guess I can see that but I just always thought of her as a 50-something year old woman.

even though she would be eligible in 2016 to run for president at age 69, would she want to? I mean most people want to enjoy some kind of retirement but then again I guess she doesn't have the hardest job in the world either...

Well, tell that to John McCain, the "white haired dude".

true. but I think there is a point where once you are a certain age and you retire, then you die within a year because work (sadly) became your reason to live. And I think John McCain is past that point, which is why some politicians work until they die, because they might live longer. Granted I have no factual evidence to base this on other than it seems to be a trend with people that work until their late 60's or early 70's or so before retiring. Never mind that 70(ish) is average life expectancy...

[CaptainZoidberg]

Women on average live longer than men, and frankly Clinton looks much more virile than McCain, so I don't see those age arguments being nearly as effective as they are with McCain.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

My father is 90 and he's still working; he'll turn 91 in January, and his retirement date has been "I hope I can keep working for a couple more years" for years now, which I now interpret it as "I hope I can keep living for a couple more years."

[CaptainZoidberg]

My father is 90 and he's still working; he'll turn 91 in January, and his retirement date has been "I hope I can keep working for a couple more years" for years now, which I now interpret it as "I hope I can keep living for a couple more years."

I must say he's very lucky. I grew up while my grandma spent the last few years of her life slowly dying and losing her grip on reality in a nursing home. It is not pretty.

[irishmick79]

I've given up trying to devine Clinton's thinking at this point, or that of the Party Unity My Ass folks who seem to think that they can still get Clinton the nomination somehow. I do think it comes down to a lot of Blue Dog type democrats who just don't see America as being willing to elect a black president, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Hillary, at least, fights the fight I think because she can't put her own arrogance aside long enough for the benefit of somebody else, but I just don't get the PUMA people at this point.

Maybe Hillary is trying to angle for a cabinet post? I don't see any way in which she gets a VP nomination at this point - Obama's camp has shown no interest at all. Hillary would be an excellent choice for a Health and Human Services Secretary. She would build her executive resume, set administration policy for a lot of her pet issues, and would be out of the way enough that Obama wouldn't have to openly compete with her on issues.

[Coyote]

Could she be angling for... maybe SECofSTATE?

Or is she just angling for damn-near anything at this point?

At this point, I'd consider pissing on her if she was on fire, but only so I could have the joy of knowing that I pissed on her.

[Glocksman]

While some of the PUMA's are genuine Hillary supporters, keep in mind that a lot of them are GOP ratfuckers pretending to be Democrats.
Remember Rush Limbaugh's 'Operation Chaos'?

Otherwise why would a rational HRC supporter turn around and back fucking John McCain, whose positions on almost every issue are in total disagreement with Hillary, instead of Obama, whose positions closely track hers?