On UBL and Saddam

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-02-12 05:54am

On Tuesday, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell dropped a bombshell at a Congressional hearing on Iraq and revealed that he had a transcript of an "upcoming" audio message from Osama bin Laden that betrays the links between bin Laden and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

However, the White House may have put its foot in its mouth this time around.

Upon careful scrutiny of the audio message from bin Laden (and broadcast at 3pm EST on the Arabic News Network Al-Jazeerah), it appears the Bush administration may have been so desperate to pin anything on Saddam and bin Laden that they did not wait to actually hear the contents of the message, nor provide adequate and reliable translation.

The bin Laden message expresses solidarity with the Iraqi people, advises them to remain steadfast in the coming invasion of their country and declares that Saddam and his aides are not important. "It is not important if Saddam and his government disappear," the man thought to be bin Laden says. "This is a war against you, the Muslims, and you must take arms to defend yourselves."

U.S. officials were quick to point out that the bin Laden message directly incriminates Iraq and proves the existence of ties between bin Laden's al-Qaeda and Saddam. U.S. media touted the official line before even hearing the tape, or awaiting a reliable translation. "Undeniably links Iraq with al-Qaeda," says one CNN anchor.

And then something happened that neither the U.S. administration nor the media anticipated: bin Laden called Saddam an apostate.

The audio message goes on to reveal that bin Laden believes Saddam to be a socialist and declares that "socialists and communists are unbelievers," thereby labeling Saddam an apostate of Islam, an infidel. It is worth mentioning that the government of Iraq is quasi-socialist and secular, and not Islamic.

Walid Phares, an Arabic-speaking MSNBC analyst finds that the audio message undermines Saddam's regime: "Osama bin Laden does not care about Saddam, in fact he can't wait till the demise of Saddam; he is trying to position himself to offer Iraqis an alternative ideology – he calls socialism abhorrent to Islam."

The voice alleged to be bin Laden's in the audio message also called for the spilling of Saddam's blood: "His blood is halal." This wording is used to indicate what is permissive or legally allowed for the killing of a usurper or criminal.

The audio message also called forth the overthrow of governments supporting the U.S. – Nigeria, Morocco, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

If bin Laden is effectively calling on Muslim Iraqis to overthrow Saddam and that Saddam is irrelevant in the coming war and Iraqis should not fight for him, how then can the U.S. administration use this message to prove Saddam and al-Qaeda are linked?

That question left some analysts baffled.

Kenneth Pollack, CNN analyst and anti-terrorism specialist, says that this is not the first time that bin Laden has used the plight of Iraq under sanctions and under Saddam to rally Muslims to his cause. In fact, bin Laden has spoken of the Iraqi issue since 1996, and has not hidden the fact that he is growing distaste for Saddam's socialist, Ba'athist regime.

"The October audio message this year was a four minute tape and bin Laden expressed sympathy for the Iraqi people," says Peter Bergen, CNN consultant on terrorism. "I don't see today's audio message as endorsing Saddam," he concludes.

Nevertheless, U.S. officials maintain that this is all the proof they need. However, the U.S. viewing public must be aware that they were only allowed to view excerpts of the 16-minute audio message, and contrary to what CNN has been proclaiming, it is not all about Iraq. The audio message also includes advice on refraining from alcohol and illicit sex, and respecting one's parents, in addition to other spiritual advice.

The audio message will not go down so easily in Europe and the Middle East and will be seen as a desperate attempt by a U.S. administration that has taken a bashing in NATO and at the U.N. to turn the tables around.

According to the BBC, "BBC's security correspondent, Frank Gardner, said the figure on the tape voiced support for Iraq, but that in no way did it prove a link between al-Qaeda and the Iraqi leadership."

Arabic speakers are sure to pour scorn on the official U.S. line. U.S. Congressional leaders, who have appeared on talk shows immediately following the excerpted broadcast of the audio tape have alluded to incorrect translations of the original Arabic content.

By default, the U.S. public is offered a half-censored, half-baked version of the audio tape.

While U.S. officials have conceded that the voice on the tape is indeed that of bin Laden, no one has bothered to focus on why the man U.S. President Bush vowed to get "dead or alive" is very much alive and a clear and present danger.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 05:58am

OK.

So if I say: "Everyone shoot Dubya, I am siding with America?"

That makes sense.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-02-12 05:58am

That guy has a knack for not bloody staying dead!

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-02-12 05:59am

You thought he was dead? The claims that he was 'probably dead' I never bought for a second.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-02-12 06:01am

Vympel wrote:You thought he was dead? The claims that he was 'probably dead' I never bought for a second.

If "American intelligence" (whew, what an oxymoron) is anything to go by, that guy has been beyond the grave more than his fair share and then "conveniently" popped up again to help our causes.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 06:01am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:That guy has a knack for not bloody staying dead!

I find that the American governments braincells don't suffer from that particular problem.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 06:04am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Vympel wrote:You thought he was dead? The claims that he was 'probably dead' I never bought for a second.
If "American intelligence" (whew, what an oxymoron) is anything to go by, that guy has been beyond the grave more than his fair share and then "conveniently" popped up again to help our causes.

Did anyone ever see the X-Files episode where they where they were talking about how Saddam was really a B-movie actor that CSM recruited to do stock footage occasionally to create a convenient scapegoat?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-02-12 06:10am

weemadando wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Vympel wrote:You thought he was dead? The claims that he was 'probably dead' I never bought for a second.
If "American intelligence" (whew, what an oxymoron) is anything to go by, that guy has been beyond the grave more than his fair share and then "conveniently" popped up again to help our causes.
Did anyone ever see the X-Files episode where they where they were talking about how Saddam was really a B-movie actor that CSM recruited to do stock footage occasionally to create a convenient scapegoat?

Hmm, that rings a bell. X-Files? You sure it wasn't something Reuters showed?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-02-12 06:43am

Remember that Osama bin Laden was allied with the USA, the "Great Satan".Just because Saddam is halal does not make it unpermissable under Quranic Law to make an alliance with him to fight a greater threat to the Umma. This is precisely what Osama has done, and he makes it clear in the recording that the interests of Muslims and "the socialists" coincide in fighting America.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-02-12 07:04am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Remember that Osama bin Laden was allied with the USA, the "Great Satan".Just because Saddam is halal does not make it unpermissable under Quranic Law to make an alliance with him to fight a greater threat to the Umma. This is precisely what Osama has done, and he makes it clear in the recording that the interests of Muslims and "the socialists" coincide in fighting America.

Well fuck him too, I just want Saddam and Osama to finally be put to rest by some sort of guided munition. They truly are a tumour on this planet and the news agencies.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-02-12 07:06am

ARGH whoops

(sorry Duchess, accidentally EDITED instead of responding to your post, it is now back to normal)

Remember that Osama bin Laden was allied with the USA, the "Great Satan

When did the US become the Great Satan to Bin Laden? Bin Laden was pretty much a product of Afghanistan, where he was fighting evil godless socialists (tee-hee!) Also, the US as evil became a lot more immediate with the presence of US troops in the holy land or whatever nonsense (Arabia).

Just because Saddam is halal does not make it unpermissable under Quranic Law to make an alliance with him to fight a greater threat to the Umma . This is precisely what Osama has done, and he makes it clear in the recording that the interests of Muslims and "the socialists" coincide in fighting America.

Yeah, but coinciding interests hardly means Osama wouldnt be glad to see Saddam hanging from his balls, or that Saddam would be chummy with the man to the extent of giving him WMD. Osama hates his guts and as head fundie, has denounced him thoroughly.