DU Shells and Harmful Effects

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-02-13 11:55pm

http://www.llrc.org/du/dupage.htm

Discuss.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-14 12:00am

Inhalation of significant amounts of the dust can be harmful. So can fragments from the 300 or 1000 pound missile and bomb warheads that would get used in their place.

Uranium deposits on your skeletal system and emits alpha partials for years afterwards. This can elevate your risk of cancer, but there wasn't been much research into it. Most people who might e subjects had bigger problems from other radioactive materials.

Not to mention most have big drops in standards of living, if they ever had much of a stand in the first place, both in southern Iraq and in the former Yugoslavia. It could easily be a coincidence, but I've never heard of any such problems in Kuwait, which had quite allot of DU expended within in.

Article is mildly full of bull however. DU munitions don't explode period. The pent4rators remains solid, you only get dust from whatever is ground off during the penetration process and possibly some more after the thing is stopped inside of the target. Miss's that hit the ground will just bury themselves and never hurt anything.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-14 12:42am

There's no question that uranium dust can be harmful. The only question is dosage.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-02-14 12:49am

I've heard rumors that DU shells is the cause of Gulf War syndrome, and that the reason the military doesn't want to admit it is not only because of the VA benefits that they would have to give out, but also because they would have to stop using the ammo.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-02-14 12:51am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:I've heard rumors that DU shells is the cause of Gulf War syndrome, and that the reason the military doesn't want to admit it is not only because of the VA benefits that they would have to give out, but also because they would have to stop using the ammo.

That's mostly conspiracy bullshit.

For one thing, there is no single Gulf War Syndrome. Everyone that got sick after that got GWS and the symptoms vary wildly. Not to mention DU wouldn't explain a lot of cases. Really no single cause can. Most likely it's a number of causes that have some overlapping symptoms.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-02-14 12:59am

Even if it isn't the cause of GW syndrome I doubt that the military will menion any harmful effects it may have for the p reviously stated reasons.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-02-14 01:28am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:I've heard rumors that DU shells is the cause of Gulf War syndrome, and that the reason the military doesn't want to admit it is not only because of the VA benefits that they would have to give out, but also because they would have to stop using the ammo.

From what I've been able to ascertain, most Gulf War illness was caused by a combination of US forces blowing up chemical storage sites and munition (thus causing chemical agents to go airborne) and illnesses contracted in the area.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-14 01:34am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Even if it isn't the cause of GW syndrome I doubt that the military will menion any harmful effects it may have for the p reviously stated reasons.

Actually the US military freely admit that’s inhalation of DU dust can be harmful, in the past has conducted clean up operations where contamination was high, such as at Palomares Spain where two nuclear weapons where smashed apart on impact, after falling from an exploding B-52. The BUFF had collided with its tanker. Another bomb landed intact and a fourth hit the water intact and was picked up after a long search.

About 1400 tons of dirt was removed, welded into simple steel drums and buried. Other soil which wasn't to be used to grow food was turned of an irrigated, cutting the faint alpha partial levels down to almost nothing. This was in 1966.

Even a sheet of paper will stop the stuff. Its only once you've consumed it and it deposits on you skeletal system that you begin to have problems.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-14 01:37am

jegs2 wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:I've heard rumors that DU shells is the cause of Gulf War syndrome, and that the reason the military doesn't want to admit it is not only because of the VA benefits that they would have to give out, but also because they would have to stop using the ammo.
From what I've been able to ascertain, most Gulf War illness was caused by a combination of US forces blowing up chemical storage sites and munition (thus causing chemical agents to go airborne) and illnesses contracted in the area.

I've heard the same, its thought that some chemical agents might have been more resistant to incineration then was thought and not enough explosives where used. That also may explain some of Iraq's problems, since the UN inspectors would have been working off the same data when they blew stuff.

The US has had problems with its dedicated chemical weapons incinerators in the past, but I don't know if it was temperature related or not.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-02-14 02:05am

I think the whole DU scare mongering is unwarranted. DU dust lying on the ground isnt gonna hurt you unless you inhale or ingest. Crews hit by a DU shell have other worries, like being immediatly killed, besides inhaling the stuff.

The primary threat from DU is that it is a toxic material and should be handled as such, the military already acknowledges this.

Tom_Aurum · Post by **Tom_Aurum** » 2003-02-14 03:03am

http://wakeup.to/notinourname

Go to news, there is an article in there about the effects of DU on our own soldiers. Confirmed by some of our family members as well. Then tell me the whole DU hazard reports are just a scare.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-02-14 03:39am

You realize that website is not a news site but a personal web page and the ariticle is an opinion piece?

Tom_Aurum · Post by **Tom_Aurum** » 2003-02-14 07:50am

The article isn't opinion, but cut-and-pasted from an actual paper. Now you can question the validity of that article, but it is presented as fact.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-02-14 08:15am

The article isn't opinion, but cut-and-pasted from an actual paper. Now you can question the validity of that article, but it is presented as fact.

First that mean its plagirism to do a simple cut and paste job without sources the orgional place

Second I find it highly odd that a man claming to be the head of a Goverment group studing DU effects can't even produce creditonals to back up that claim, Giant goverment consipracy or not

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-02-14 09:13am

I don't see how too much of any heavy metal in your system can be good for you.

Oh yes, and there's an idiot in the OT forums that's screaming that vaccines are the cause of Gulf War syndrome.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-02-14 12:02pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Article is mildly full of bull however. DU munitions don't explode period. The pent4rators remains solid, you only get dust from whatever is ground off during the penetration process and possibly some more after the thing is stopped inside of the target. Miss's that hit the ground will just bury themselves and never hurt anything.

You do get a flash when the munition hits something solid, but that's a chemical reaction or something, not radioactive. In fact I think it's not very different from striking other kind of metals and making sparks.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-02-14 01:35pm

Mr Bean wrote:
The article isn't opinion, but cut-and-pasted from an actual paper. Now you can question the validity of that article, but it is presented as fact.
First that mean its plagirism to do a simple cut and paste job without sources the orgional place

Second I find it highly odd that a man claming to be the head of a Goverment group studing DU effects can't even produce creditonals to back up that claim, Giant goverment consipracy or not

If you have the orignal article please post a link here. Cutting and pasting an article to a personal website wont cut it here ( no pun intended ).

I also, find it odd that the article claims 30 out of a 100 of his team are now dead. Names please?

As to not being able to find his name in a military search engine, so what?
I cant find my friend who is a E-7 in the USMCR either. Does not really mean much.

Tom_Aurum · Post by **Tom_Aurum** » 2003-02-14 06:12pm

Okay... now onto a little more official a source, after I did a web search on Doug Rokke and DU The Doctor himself, and his professionally presented paper on the topic:

http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/duupdate.html

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-02-14 06:24pm

Your link is 404 but if you go to the main site www.iacentar.org you can crawl through the pages to find the Depleted Uranium Section(Almost at the bottom of the left hand-side bar) but I can't find any Scientific Study links backing up any of their claims though they do have a nice 30 Storys linked about the Horrors of where DU is, Causing this that and the other, Proof however for their claims... well I could not find anything for that

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-02-14 06:26pm

Tom_Aurum wrote:Okay... now onto a little more official a source, after I did a web search on Doug Rokke and DU The Doctor himself, and his professionally presented paper on the topic:

http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/duupdate.html

"404 Page cannot be found"

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-02-14 07:05pm

http://www.who.int/environmental_inform ... mintro.pdf

From the World Health Organization report "Depleted Uranium: Sources, Exposure and Health Effects".

Limitation of human intake of soluable depleted uranium compounds should be based on a tolerable intake value of 0.5 ug per kg of body weight per day, and that the intake of insoluable depleted uranium compounds should be based on both chemical effects and the radiation dose limits prescribed in the International Basic Safety Standards (BSS) on radiation protection. Exposure to depleted uranium should be controlled to the levels recommended for protection against radiological and chemical toxicity outlined in the monograph for both soluable and insoluable depleted uranium compounds.

General screening or monitoring for possible depleted uranium-related health effects in populations living in conflict areas where depleted uranium has been used is not necessary. Individuals who believe they have been exposed to excessive levels of depleted uranium should consult their medical practitioner for examination, appropriate treatment of any symptoms and follow-up.

Young children could receive greater depleted uranium exposure when playing within a conflict zone because of hand-to-mouth activity that could result in high depleted uranium ingestion from contaminated soil. This type of exposure needs to be monitored and necessary preventative measures taken.

The grisy details on DU exposure in humans are in chapter 8.2.4. Chapter 9 contains the radiological information. Pages 78 and 79 of the PDF summarize the health risks from exposure.

Tom_Aurum · Post by **Tom_Aurum** » 2003-02-14 07:36pm

Okay... another link... same article:

http://www.stopnato.org.uk/du-watch/rokke/rokke.htm

And a quote from the article about the flammable characteristics:

WHAT ARE THE PHYSICAL PROPERTIES?
Depleted uranium or U-238 has an atomic mass of 238. Its half-life is 4.468 billion years. It's natural occurrence is 2.1 parts per million. Uranium is silver white, lustrous, malleable, ductile, and pyrophoric. This makes DU an ideal metal for use as kinetic energy penetrators, counterweights, and shielding or armor. High density and pyrophoric (catches fire) nature are the two most significant physical properties that guided its selection for use as a kinetic energy penetrator.

Another quote concerning what the flammability does to it upon impact:

I was assigned to the DU assessment team as the team health physicist and medic by directive of Headquarters Department of the Army in Washington, D.C. via a message sent to the theater commander during March 1991. What we found can be explained in three words: "OH MY GOD". According to official documents each uranium penetrator could loose up to 70 % of it's mass on impact creating fixed and loose contamination with the remainder passing through the equipment or structure to lie on the terrain. On-site impact investigations suggest that the mass loss is about 40% which forms fixed and
loose contamination leaving about 60% of the initial mass of the penetrator in the solid or pencil form. Equipment contamination included uranium oxides, other hazardous materials, unstable unexploded ordnance, and by-products of exploded ordinance. U.S. Army Materiel Command documents sent to us during ODS stated the oxide was 57% insoluble and 43 % soluble with at least 50% was respirable. In addition other radioactive materials were detected that could pose a risk through inhalation, ingestion, or wound contamination. In most cases except for penetrator fragments, contamination was inside destroyed equipment or structures, on the destroyed equipment, or within 25 meters of the equipment. After we returned to the United States myself and two others with assistance wrote the Theater Clean up plan which was reportedly passed up through U.S. Department of Defense officials to the U.S. Department of State and consequently to the Emirate of Kuwaiti. Today, it is obvious that none of this information regarding clean up of extensive DU contamination ever was given to the Iraqi's. Consequently, although we knew there were and still are substantial hazards existing within Iraq they have been ignored by the United States and Great Britain for political and economic reasons.

oh... and someone tell me how i work that "quote" button

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-02-14 08:31pm

"How the Pentagon radiates Soldiers and Civilians with Depleted Uranium"

"Depleted Uranium Watch: Stop NATO!!!"

nice to see you're keeping a balanced perspective on the issue. You missed some of the more lurid ones like "Weapons of American Terrorism."

Here is a different perspective on it.