T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

[Thanas]

This episode will air today.

Sarah and Cameron work to save a family on the list with a connection to Derek in the future. Meanwhile Jesse's life hangs in the balance.

Discuss. As always, please use spoiler tags when talking about upcoming episode promo materials or trailers. Please do not use spoiler tags when talking about this episode and speculating about future plot developments.

[TC Pilot]

2x12 of what?

[Thanas]

ARGHHH. T:SCC of course.

[Strider]

Thanas loses his SCC thread making privileges for a week

[bullethead]

It was a pretty good episode overall, although I really liked that the writers gave us some info on the composition of Connor's forces. I totally did not expect the Resistance to have the Carter or any other submarine in their control, which happens to show that Skynet is really lax in anti-submarine warfare. I just wish we could some more of that kind of information more often, not just in the future war scenes.

[TheLostVikings]

It was a pretty good episode overall, although I really liked that the writers gave us some info on the composition of Connor's forces. I totally did not expect the Resistance to have the Carter or any other submarine in their control, which happens to show that Skynet is really lax in anti-submarine warfare. I just wish we could some more of that kind of information more often, not just in the future war scenes.

Agreed, I also like a lot how they gave some tiny bits of insight into the life outside US for a change. And the "rabbit story" with its fairly obvious overtones was a nice touch imho.

[Xon]

Those rabbits are freaking tought to kill. Australia has introduced two bunny-killer viruses (one by mistake, it escaped the lab) and they are still a pest and occasionally build enough numbers to swarm.

My personal theory is SkyNET only ever has enough resources to send 1 terminator back at a time. The issue is every freaking iteration of SkyNET which survives after one is sent back gets to send another back, hence why it's using of Terminator's is all over the map in thier targets.

[Anguirus]

That was surprisingly good for a pretty much standalone episode that didn't introduce much insight into our leads. I loved the family though, and their different responses to the crisis. I also enjoyed the context that the episode gave us on why Derek and Jessie became so close.

One oddity...when is the six month time skip? Does half this episode take place earlier in the season, or even last season? Or do we jump six months ahead? I notice that they only showed Derek in the framing story...we hear Sarah on the phone, but we don't know anything else about anyone else. Another oddity is in how Cameron was taken out. She comes flying through the window while the T-888 was still at least 20-30 meters away, on the other side of a line of trees. She's also never simply "passed out" and woken up later before.

Guest cast alert: the father is one of Joss Whedon's favorite guest stars, and was in the Firefly pilot. The girl also looks really familiar, though it could just be that she resembles a friend of mine.

[Shroom Man 777]

I really liked this episode. THIS is what Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles is ALL ABOUT. I loved the way they avoided showing the fight between Cromartie and the Trip 8, though I found it strange that Cameron ended up getting thrown so frickin' far and how she was knocked out for more than 120 seconds. I think her performance really fluctuates, from being extremely dangerous when taking on Trips like Pretzel and Strak (who WAS caught with his fedora down), to being in a severe disadvantage like when taking on Greenway and This Guy. I find it stupid for Sarah to have hidden the kid inside the closet, she wasn't even sure the baby was the priority. And where on Earth did Cameron get that car? But hey, she saved them, so that's good.

Still, her incapacitation was totally strange. Sarah went over to her, obviously worried (for Cameron's sake, or for all hers, or both). Maybe she was worrying if the Trip 8 had lobotomized her, or if she was having another malfunction. When Cameron got up and nearly killed the wife's boyfriend, I thought she went whacko again, but she apologized... how could she have not known that the guy was human and not a Trip 8? Malfunctioning again...?

That guy was such a shmuck. Beaten up by Cameron, and then killed off-screen by the Trip 8. Damn.

Man, why did they disengage and leave the Trip 8? They could've found some way to kill it then and there and saved themselves the grief of Six Months Later, they've killed shitloads of Terminators already...

Did the show take a Six Month Leap Forward? I mean, what's the chronology of this ep in relation to everything else? It's obviously pure standalone... for all we know, it might've happened right after Automatic For The People or something.



Despite those questions because of the episode's weirdness and stuff... the show IS pretty weird and quirky, in its own weird way, I found the episode totally great. I mean, it's got everything. Sarah's no longer nuts, she's taking charge and being a hardass. Cameron's beating up a Termie and gets her moments as well, like looking the revolver over and extending her hand to the girl, we see Derek being sympathetic and awesome and we get an awesome flashforward, John is nowhere to be seen (:D), and we get some new characters that may have potential future recurrence (not too likely) and who serve an awesome plot that shows us what it's like to wage a Future War and stuff, reflecting the plight of the Connors and the cost of the War on Whor... War on the Machines.

The girl was awesome! AND we now know that Skynet DOES use bioweapons! Yeah!

Why was Derek sent to the base again? Did they know there was a survivor?

As always, I'm gonna have to rewatch. Still, 5/5.

It contrasts nicely with the strangely calm and contemplative Cameron-centric episodes, like Allison and Self Made Mang. Yet they're all, like, totally awesome.

[Peptuck]

Pretty rocking episode, overall. The multiple timelines really did a great job showcasing one of the series' strengths, and that is how things become important over time.

I especially liked the entire family - in their own ways, everyone was pretty damn tough. Dad pretty much earned eternal respect from me when he limped out into the fron yard with measly .38 to take on the invincible killer deathbot. Mom won too for simply surviving like she did, and Lauren was just a pure ball of victory. I mean, that girl was hard.

Sounds like Australia wasn't hit that hard on Judgment Day, which makes sense. The only hing strategically valuable about Australia is it produces tough motherfuckers.

Interesting thing with Cameron being knocked out like she was - another weakness in her design? We know that the Terminators can be stunned by hard enough impacts, so I suspect our nameless 888 probably got in a really hard hit on her during their hunt.

Also, Sarah has the single best way to end an argument - ever.

And where on Earth did Cameron get that car?

Probably Roger's house. It is within walking distance, and he said he had a truck.

Best lines in this episode:
"I was looking up lesbian porn."
"....yeah, that sounds pretty thorough."

Overall, a 4.

[Tsyroc]

Is there any possibility that the reason future Sydney had the immunity within her needed to build a counter agent to Skynet's bioweapon in the future was because she was exposed to Derek at the time of her birth. It makes the time loops between Derek and the two girls really interesting if that's the case.

Some of the loops that happen in the Terminator mythos sure seem like they make a pretty good argument for fate being a player just not an exact one.

[Tsyroc]

I actually liked Jesse in this episode. Probably because she wasn't working some agenda. I thought it was interesting that she seemed okay with having a T-888 piloting the sub she's serving on. The Jesse we've seen so far comes across as being more anti-metal than future/past Derek but in the present day their positions are almost reversed.



I also got a kick out of the sub they were using being the Jimmy Carter. There's been a lot of talk about how naming a special ops sub after JC was a backhanded way to honor him. Having served in the Navy and been President he was certainly more deserving of having a nuclear powered carrier named after him than some other people but instead his name was used for a nuclear submarine that specializes in the sort of missions where the public really should never ever hear about it. So it's cool that the T:SCC Aussies are making good use of the JC. Anyone know whether the carrier the Termies were using for a prison is the Ford or not? It looked like a piece of shit so if it's a Nimitz I'm guessing the Reagan.

[Thanas]

Still, her incapacitation was totally strange. Sarah went over to her, obviously worried (for Cameron's sake, or for all hers, or both). Maybe she was worrying if the Trip 8 had lobotomized her, or if she was having another malfunction. When Cameron got up and nearly killed the wife's boyfriend, I thought she went whacko again, but she apologized... how could she have not known that the guy was human and not a Trip 8? Malfunctioning again...?

No, Termies are not in scanning mode all the time. That has been shown multiple times in the series, they have to engage a special mode for that.

Man, why did they disengage and leave the Trip 8? They could've found some way to kill it then and there and saved themselves the grief of Six Months Later, they've killed shitloads of Terminators already...

Nah. Cameron was damaged, the smart thing was to withdraw.

Despite those questions because of the episode's weirdness and stuff... the show IS pretty weird and quirky, in its own weird way, I found the episode totally great. I mean, it's got everything. Sarah's no longer nuts, she's taking charge and being a hardass. Cameron's beating up a Termie and gets her moments as well, like looking the revolver over and extending her hand to the girl, we see Derek being sympathetic and awesome and we get an awesome flashforward, John is nowhere to be seen (:D), and we get some new characters that may have potential future recurrence (not too likely) and who serve an awesome plot that shows us what it's like to wage a Future War and stuff, reflecting the plight of the Connors and the cost of the War on Whor... War on the Machines.

Better yet - no "romance" subplot with Riley this episode.

I especially liked the entire family - in their own ways, everyone was pretty damn tough. Dad pretty much earned eternal respect from me when he limped out into the fron yard with measly .38 to take on the invincible killer deathbot. Mom won too for simply surviving like she did, and Lauren was just a pure ball of victory. I mean, that girl was hard.

Yeah, surviving Judgement Day and rearing the sister? Great job.

Interesting thing with Cameron being knocked out like she was - another weakness in her design? We know that the Terminators can be stunned by hard enough impacts, so I suspect our nameless 888 probably got in a really hard hit on her during their hunt.

I guess it all comes down to monumentum and how to use the environment, both are Cameron's strength. In this fight she had neither. Also, if we assume her fighting capabilities evolve with her, it only makes sense to paint her as weaker in the past.

Is there any possibility that the reason future Sydney had the immunity within her needed to build a counter agent to Skynet's bioweapon in the future was because she was exposed to Derek at the time of her birth. It makes the time loops between Derek and the two girls really interesting if that's the case.

Good observation, but I do not think that Babies build immunities via touching. And there was no blood transfer.



People have already said those, but I just want to highlight some things:
- Skynet is using bioweapons
- The resistance has access to at least one submarine which is used to ferry food. I suspect they do have quite more naval assets. Submarines make the most sense, since they most likely would have been the least affected by nuclear war.
- Jesssie said that no submarine captains survived J-day. Obviously an exaggeration. It seems to me that one possible way to explain this is that the Jimmy Carter was in stock at the moment of Judgement day or placed in reserve (not too farfetched since it already would have been over 20 years old at that time).
- The resistance has a bioweapons division as well, or at least enough trained people that isolation procedures and mob suits are possible.

[neoolong]

So, in the future, Seranno Point is Resistance controlled? So, what does that mean for the events of "Automatic for the People" and Weaver? The cyborgs lose control of it regardless, or it's another timeline?

[Thanas]

So, in the future, Seranno Point is Resistance controlled? So, what does that mean for the events of "Automatic for the People" and Weaver? The cyborgs lose control of it regardless, or it's another timeline?

Well, the flashbacks happened in Derek's memory, so I would guess that it is the timeline before it was altered.

[Lord_Xerxes]

Was watching some of T2 today with my roommate and an interesting topic came up. We were discussing whether we thought the T-1000 and the 800 series were of comparable physical strength or not, or who we thought was stronger. I was saying how I'd always got the impression that the 800's were perhaps more physically stronger but that the 1000 was perhaps more dexterous or agile. As an example, I noted how the 1000 is able to nearly run down John on foot while he's on a bike, and how he is able to run down the Connors on foot while they're in a police cruiser. It seemed to me that an 800 had never been seen on screen in the movies or in SCC moving at that speed.

Thus, I found it interesting in this episode had another tidbit to add to my theory. The 888 is unable to keep up with them on foot while they're driving away in the truck. My thoughts before seeing that scene were that perhaps the 1000 is able to move as such speeds because his body isn't confined to the limitations of having servos and legs designed on a human form which would likely have some upper limits on top speed, despite being mechanical. Basically, that he wouldn't have to worry about damaging his leg servos and whatever might act as mechanical tendons pushing himself because of his liquid metal composition. I guess you might have to quantify wether the truck was faster than the cruiser, or if the 888 was damaged in anyway that might effect his speed however... I dunno, just something I was tossing around in my brain.

All that aside, I really liked the episode. I didn't care much at all for the wife, but all the flash forward to the future and more developement on Derek was nice. Even the bits on Jesse. Too bad, for me at least, the character is too despise able to redeem. All her underhanded treachery just makes me want her to be a loose end that's finally tied up. And I've always gotten the impression since she was introduced that perhaps she isn't fighting for the same side as the Resistance. She certainly seems to be guiding Riley in directions that make John make stupid and dangerous decisions that could jeopardize his life. Whether this is just simple because she feels he's become to isolated and attached to Cameron or whether there's something else going on there, I'm not sure.

[neoolong]

I liked Lauren. It's unlikely she'd ever come back, but at least she was better than Riley.

[Thanas]

Was watching some of T2 today with my roommate and an interesting topic came up. We were discussing whether we thought the T-1000 and the 800 series were of comparable physical strength or not, or who we thought was stronger. I was saying how I'd always got the impression that the 800's were perhaps more physically stronger but that the 1000 was perhaps more dexterous or agile. As an example, I noted how the 1000 is able to nearly run down John on foot while he's on a bike, and how he is able to run down the Connors on foot while they're in a police cruiser. It seemed to me that an 800 had never been seen on screen in the movies or in SCC moving at that speed.

Well, one T-888 was able to catch up with an accelerating police van in this scene.

[PREDATOR490]

Didnt like the episode much. I am not a fan of filler / standalone episodes which this was.
Additonally, I think this episode is out of order due to the timeshifts. I recall it being mentioned was moved forward because of it's standalone nature so we have to wait till after the break to get anymore .If that is true then whatever Sarah or Co. is doing is probably going to be picked up later. Might also explain why Cameron got wrecked this episode.

Speaking of Cameron, without an excuse being brought forward by another episode I do not see any valid reason for her apparant K.O.
The way she came crashing through didnt look right either from the look of the landscape. The distance that Termie was walking from allowed Sarah and the Dad to have their heroic banter before he even got close which is a pretty excessive distance for a Terminator to hurl Cameron IMO.

As for the timeline issues, I get the impression that what originally started out as a simple - Kill Sarah Connor with Arnie by Skynet - has shifted into a time war between Skynet and the Resistance where neither side actually knows what the fuck they are doing. My own understanding of it would be that both Skynet and John Connor are playing a game of chess over time. The squares being key events and both players trying to manuver their pieces into those events to eventually get an endgame. Of course since Sarah so aptly put in Season 1, people arent simple pieces that do as they are told. Hence Jessie and Co. possibly working against Connor's plans while Skynet suffers from Weaver working against it.
Probably wrong, but I would find it deeply ironic if this were the case since Skynet is supposed to be the Chessmaster Turk and Connor's buildup at being a computer / chessman would explain why he really is the saviour of mankind. He has the technical knowledge of computers and chess to be able to understand / match Skynet which makes this entire war the ultimate battle between humanity and machines. If this is the case then I expect we will find out the monologues we are getting from Sarah are actually her notes / diary / memories from somepoint in the future after they win or before they win etc. I'm guessing Season 5 of TSCC should the series manage to survive that long.

[Solauren]

By my estimation, there are at least 5 Terminator Timelines, probably 6 (7 if you count Termintor 3). Temporal Warfare definately seems to be the current stratergy for both of sides.

[Shroom Man 777]

Sounds like Australia wasn't hit that hard on Judgment Day, which makes sense. The only hing strategically valuable about Australia is it produces tough motherfuckers.

No, it did get hit. They were talking about how food production had just recently resumed.


As for the Jimmy Carter, the fact that the sub captains were all dead so they had to resort to using Triple 8s as Captains says that while it did survive J-Day intact, its crew probably didn't due to Skynet. There was a thread in the N&P forum about how a malfunction caused the Halon systems of a Russian sub to kill some of its crew, conceivably Skynet could've done that to the JC's crew as well. The Resistance could've gotten the sub when it was docked, or it could've used Captain Triple 8 in an awesome boarding action!

T-888: "Avast! Heave ho and shiver me timbers! Raise the periscope! DIVE DIVE DIVE!"


Also, Skynet has been installing those self-destructo chips into its Terminators to prevent the Resistance from capturing and scrubbing them. Maybe with all the scrubbed Trip-8s in the Resistance, Skynet has been updating the combat programming of their Trip 8s as well.


@ Thanas: Police vans might be slooow.


As for the timing of this episode, I think since it really has nothing to do with the crazy Three Dots arc, it can be placed anywhere. The Three Dots arc continues next week, by the way. ANYWAY, I think the "present" time isn't the scene with Derek and the Brave Little Girl. The "present" was the "Six Months Earlier" scenes, and the scenes with Derek and the Brave Little Girl were more like an epilogue to the whole deal. It's all flashbacks and flashforwards and shit! Yeah!

[neoolong]

Is it mentioned how much in terms of weapons that Sarah and company have left? Because it seemed odd that Sarah and Cameron went to save the family and knew that they might come across a terminator, and didn't pack something that would be effective against terminators. Something like the grenade launcher that Derek does have, or the Barrett he used earlier.

I suppose it could be in the car, but seemed odd that they wouldn't have Cameron handle it on the way back.

[Shroom Man 777]

Maybe the Barrett was something Derek borrowed from the military academy and returned laterwards.

It is odd that Sarah travels light, but maybe they were going for a quick and easy snatch-and-grab thing. They probably weren't expecting the Trip-8 to be right after them, maybe they were doing something preventive rather than reactive (like with Bedel).

[PREDATOR490]

Well if this episode is out of order, then it might be they are running out of heavy equipment. I would imagine it is rather difficult for them to get their hands on that kind of stuff while staying under the radar and using it unnoticed would be even harder. That said, Cameron's recent success with the previous Terminators might be making her get a little cocky and Sarah expects her to be able to handle it without bringing the heavy gear. Needless to say, after this episode I would expect that to rapidly change.

On further though of Cameron's knock out, the simplest explanation could be that the damage to Cameron's chip has compromised her, we know that it can and has done so in the past to the point that even Cromartie was able to conclude she was damaged from her mistakes. Hence, if the chip is physically damaged then enough physical damage / trauma during a fight may knock her out due to the chip being fucked up which means the more damage she takes, the more fucked the chip is going to get. That could make for an interesting arc along the show in line with her becoming more human. She becomes more human the more she loses being a Terminator through damage to her chip and programming. I only hope the writers wont take it too far and start getting preachy about how good humanity is etc.

[neoolong]

Well if this episode is out of order, then it might be they are running out of heavy equipment. I would imagine it is rather difficult for them to get their hands on that kind of stuff while staying under the radar and using it unnoticed would be even harder. That said, Cameron's recent success with the previous Terminators might be making her get a little cocky and Sarah expects her to be able to handle it without bringing the heavy gear. Needless to say, after this episode I would expect that to rapidly change.

Maybe, but they do distinctly show Derek with a grenade launcher. Though maybe that's the lesson.