Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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GUARDIAN NEWS SERVICE

Russia has thrown down a new gauntlet to Barack Obama with an announcement that it will sharply increase production of strategic nuclear missiles.

In the latest of a series of combative moves by the Kremlin, a senior government official in Moscow said the Russian military would commission 70 strategic missiles over the next three years, as part of a massive rearmament programme which will also include short-range missiles, 300 tanks, 14 warships and 50 planes.

Military experts said the planned new arsenal was presumed to consist of land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) rather than submarine-launched missiles. If this is the case, the plans represent a fourfold increase in the rate of ICBM deployment. The arsenal will include a new-generation, multiple-warhead ICBM called the RS-24. It was first test-fired in 2007, with first deputy prime minister Sergei Ivanov boasting it was "capable of overcoming any existing or future missile defence systems".

The new missiles will be part of a GBP95bn defence procurement package for 2009-2011, a 28% increase in arms spending, according to Vladislav Putilin of the cabinet's military-industrial commission. There will be further increases in spending in the following two years.

The new military procurements follow the war in Georgia in August. Russian forces easily routed Georgian troops, but the conflict exposed weaknesses in the Russian army, including outdated equipment and poorly co-ordinated command structures. The defence ministry said it would carry out drastic reforms, turning the army into a more modern force.

Vladimir Putin on Monday urged cabinet officials quickly to allocate funds for new weapons and closely control the quality and pace of their production. Military experts said the construction of 70 long-range nuclear missiles in the next three years represented a Russian attempt to strengthen its bargaining position with Washington, in talks aimed at agreeing new nuclear weapons cuts when the current treaty in force, Start I, expires next December.

Moscow's strategy appears to be to challenge Obama's new administration as soon as it takes office on 20 January. On the day Obama was elected the Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, announced plans to station short-range Iskander missiles in Russia's Kaliningrad exclave as a counter to American installation of its missile defence system in eastern Europe.

Ruben Sergeev, an expert on disarmament issues, said Moscow was afraid of falling behind in a new arms race.

"Russia is decommissioning its old liquid-fuel missiles from the Soviet era at a rate of several dozen every year," he said. "The Kremlin knows that if it doesn't increase production of ICBMs rapidly now then it will have no chance of getting a new arms reduction treaty out of the US, which has much greater quantities of missiles." Negotiations on a successor to Start I have been bogged down in detail, and hamstrung by the Bush administration's lame duck status.

The chief US negotiator, John Rood, said last week that the latest sticking point was Russian insistence that the new treaty cover long-range delivery systems, such as bombers and missiles, intended for conventional arms as well as nuclear warheads. The US wants the treaty to focus solely on nuclear warheads.

Moscow has also signalled that it would supply Tehran with new surface-to-air missiles in defiance of US opposition. Washington has asked for more information on the sales, fearing the weapons being sold include long-range S-300 missiles, which have a 120km range. They could threaten US planes in Iraq, and could also protect Iranian nuclear sites from aerial attack.

The US has set aside its own plans for military action against Iran for now, but US officials hoped that fear of an Israeli strike would make Iran more amenable to suspending its enrichment of uranium.
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Silly Russians. Lets increase output of GBIs by four times and match their missile spending :twisted:
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by K. A. Pital »

It would be funny if Obama guts the ABM programs :lol: Have fun! :P
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Chris OFarrell »

I think the most likely outcome is that Obama will leave the ABM programs as is, if vetoing any further R&D on other ABM technologies. Theh hard work and cash has already been spent on the GBI system, though the ABL is a bit of a question mark as it looks no-one can decide if its a prototype proof of concept or a prototype functional weapons system...

Still, Russia moving to try and replace obsolete ICBM's with newer ones doesn't really change the strategic balance at all, so I think the smart money is on Obama just ignoring it.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by K. A. Pital »

We're long overdue for upgrading our military arsenal. 300 tanks in 3 years is still pathetically low (1000 tanks per year is what the RSFSR should've managed at brighter days), but better than nothing.

14 warships is likewise low - thankfully, our government has apparently realized the need to reinstall an oceanic Navy with carrier groups; this led to military aquisitions ballooning from 300 billion to 1,9 trillion RUR IIRC, but it's understandable. Any construction of large surface shiops will cost lots.

And "50 planes" sounds downright atrocious, unless they mean "50 fifth generation fighters". :lol:
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Does Russia have the money to do this? I heard that it was getting hit hard by the economic crisis.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Axis Kast »

Chris has it right. This rates as interesting news, but not a policy crisis. Indeed, it can only become a "challenge" if Obama acknowledges it as such. It's really just a long overdue rehabilitation of an increasingly decrepit arsenal.

Russia's plans for a blue water navy make sense in the context of its revived claims on world power status, but have no realistic long-term purpose. The country isn't striving to secure vital energy supplies beyond its landward frontiers. Russia's major area-of-external-interest is the Near Abroad. And a navy is far more than hardware; their standards of training and maintenance (let alone shipbuilding) need upgrading as much as do their actual fighting ships.

Hongi brings up another great point. Russia is eating through dwindling foreign reserves, and will continue to do so as long as their budget remains calculated for $72-a-barrel oil prices.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Axis Kast wrote:Russia's plans for a blue water navy make sense in the context of its revived claims on world power status, but have no realistic long-term purpose. The country isn't striving to secure vital energy supplies beyond its landward frontiers. Russia's major area-of-external-interest is the Near Abroad. And a navy is far more than hardware; their standards of training and maintenance (let alone shipbuilding) need upgrading as much as do their actual fighting ships.
It's potential enemies have blue water navies or strive to build one. Why should it not have such a navy?
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by K. A. Pital »

Russia is eating through dwindling foreign reserves
This means more attention to Russia's own industries then, including war industries. Relying on foreign reserves has proven itself a risky strategy, so I hope our government finally gets it's head together and puts their money into domestic industries for a new industrial rise.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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I wonder how much this announcement has to do with yet another Bulava failure a few days ago.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Vympel »

Nothing. The plan for an additional 69 ICBMs over the next three years was announced ages ago - possibly even last year. Russian arms plans are not conducive to sudden changes. They're merely repeating the intent.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Phantasee »

Man, 'quadruple' sound pretty impressive until you read the article and realize it's not even 100 new missiles.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by K. A. Pital »

Man, 'quadruple' sound pretty impressive until you read the article and realize it's not even 100 new missiles.
How would the reader be fascinated if you made a tagline "Russia builds under 100 new missiles". :lol: You see, if you make such taglines, the voter might think there's no missile gap. ;) And you know that's bad for business (TM).
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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It's potential enemies have blue water navies or strive to build one. Why should it not have such a navy?
Because your potential enemies have the ready cash and, if we're talking about the United States, the requisite organization, on hand.

Most important, they have either treaty commitments and vital national security interests [read: energy access] at stake. Russia does not need to maintain free access to the Persian Gulf, wield a stick against Taiwan and the Philippines, or fulfill security pledges to faraway allies.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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This means more attention to Russia's own industries then, including war industries. Relying on foreign reserves has proven itself a risky strategy, so I hope our government finally gets it's head together and puts their money into domestic industries for a new industrial rise.
Russia's military industries have been attempting for years to find new markets. No deal. Ample Cold War surplus is all that brushfire wars require -- and all that the antagonists can afford. Even "rogue" statism is going out style. The Russians lost two potential clients in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have an obvious one in Iran, but even that may change, depending on the results of nuclear bargaining. Venezuela is not likely to remain a strong buyer. And, with many former Warsaw Pact members entering NATO, the possibility of sales dwindles even more.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Axis Kast wrote:Because your potential enemies have the ready cash and, if we're talking about the United States, the requisite organization, on hand.

Most important, they have either treaty commitments and vital national security interests [read: energy access] at stake. Russia does not need to maintain free access to the Persian Gulf, wield a stick against Taiwan and the Philippines, or fulfill security pledges to faraway allies.
Wield a stick against the Philippines? What? :lol:

Russia's Venezuelan and Cuban allies are threatened daily by a rogue and terroristic nation with noted disdain for international procedure, a nation that very seriously threatens global stability, in fact. It is in the best interest of the free world for Russia to project its force and protect its peace-loving allies in Latin America.

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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Ever heard of the Spratley Islands? :lol:

And I'm just going to assume that you spoke tongue-in-cheek when you decided to call Venezuela and Cuba allies worth Russian blood and treasure.

Within a decade, Cuba is almost guaranteed to move back into the American orbit. The old guard are leaving the political playing fields -- on both sides of the Florida Straits.

As for Russia representing the values of the "free world?" Well, it's good comedy, at least.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Axis Kast wrote:Ever heard of the Spratley Islands? :lol:
What about them?

Don't tell me that due to America being the closest nation to the Spratleys, they have more right than the Philippines (or the Viet Cong or whatever) to those islands? Man, that's a bit tough to call. I'm not sure who's nearest to the Spratleys, the Americans or the Chinese (it's a close call, though I think Sarah Palin said she could see the Sprats from Wasilla). But definitely not the Filipinos (or the Charlies?), since they're WAY FAR OFF.... like a thousand million miles away!

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Do you even SEE the Philippines anywhere NEAR that? Nope.

But this is off-topic. And the fact that you consider wielding your blue water navy against supposed allies only illustrates mein point.
And I'm just going to assume that you spoke tongue-in-cheek when you decided to call Venezuela and Cuba allies worth Russian blood and treasure.
Nah. It's never worth sacrificing 4092 (and counting) troops on any hole, anyway? ;)
As for Russia representing the values of the "free world?" Well, it's good comedy, at least.
They were really good in Operation South Ossetian Shield and Abkhazian Freedom though, you gotta give them that.

And the fact that they're not a bunch of loud-mouthed self-righteous hypocritical holes makes them a good representative of the rest of the "free world", making them not really different from the rest of us peace-loving peoples.

Don't know about other places, though.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Don't tell me that due to America being the closest nation to the Spratleys, they have more right than the Philippines (or the Viet Cong or whatever) to those islands? Man, that's a bit tough to call. I'm not sure who's nearest to the Spratleys, the Americans or the Chinese (it's a close call, though I think Sarah Palin said she could see the Sprats from Wasilla). But definitely not the Filipinos (or the Charlies?), since they're WAY FAR OFF.... like a thousand million miles away!
I believe that Axis Kast was talking about US needing the navy to back Philippines against China rather than US actually claiming them.
Axis Kast wrote:And I'm just going to assume that you spoke tongue-in-cheek when you decided to call Venezuela and Cuba allies worth Russian blood and treasure.
Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua... whoever is prepared to stir shit for the US in America.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Kane Starkiller wrote:I believe that Axis Kast was talking about US needing the navy to back Philippines against China rather than US actually claiming them.
He said 'wield a stick against (Taiwan and) the Philippines'. It could just be a problem with grammer, but the statement itself sounded like he meant that America wanted to beat the Philippines with stick.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Shroom Man 777 wrote: He said 'wield a stick against (Taiwan and) the Philippines'. It could just be a problem with grammer, but the statement itself sounded like he meant that America wanted to beat the Philippines with stick.
It was probably poor phrasing on his part, but he most likely meant wielding a stick to back the Phillippines against China, hence the including of Taiwan. I had to go back and read it a few times before it made any sense myself, so you're not alone.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Axis Kast wrote:Russia's military industries have been attempting for years to find new markets. No deal. Ample Cold War surplus is all that brushfire wars require -- and all that the antagonists can afford. Even "rogue" statism is going out style. The Russians lost two potential clients in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have an obvious one in Iran, but even that may change, depending on the results of nuclear bargaining. Venezuela is not likely to remain a strong buyer. And, with many former Warsaw Pact members entering NATO, the possibility of sales dwindles even more.
Hello? Since when was Afghanistan an important client? Did you just rewrite the history books? And Iraq? I hear that America's ally Ukraine supplied Iraq with some GPS jammers and also China with some nice equipment as well.
Axis Kast wrote:Because your potential enemies have the ready cash and, if we're talking about the United States, the requisite organization, on hand.
Ah, so not only do you not know the proper defence theory, you, as usual, advocate that any nation who opposes US policy should just capitulate.
Most important, they have either treaty commitments and vital national security interests [read: energy access] at stake. Russia does not need to maintain free access to the Persian Gulf, wield a stick against Taiwan and the Philippines, or fulfill security pledges to faraway allies.
Wield a stick against Philippines? God, I got to go get a laugh. Who on earth wants to wield a stick against a nation that spends more time arguing among itself? :lol:

This is why I figured a Collseum battle is a futile exercise. The right winger demagogues such as you only think that only the US matters and nothing else.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:
He said 'wield a stick against (Taiwan and) the Philippines'. It could just be a problem with grammer, but the statement itself sounded like he meant that America wanted to beat the Philippines with stick.
I read that and instantly interpreted as China wielding the stick, not America.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

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What about them?
Five different parties lay claim to the Spratly Islands, including the Republic of China, the People’s Republic of China, Malaysia, the Republic of the Philippines, and the People’s Republic of Vietnam. All of the aforementioned have deployed, or do deploy, military forces on the disputed territory. The islands sit astride rich fishing grounds and, according to some surveys, considerable energy resources.
Nah. It's never worth sacrificing 4092 (and counting) troops on any hole, anyway?
“America did it in Iraq!” is not a logical argument illustrating compelling Russian need for a blue-water navy.
They were really good in Operation South Ossetian Shield and Abkhazian Freedom though, you gotta give them that.
Really good at what? Instigating puny Georgia, with a military optimized for light duties and almost no air force, into firing the first shot of a long-anticipated war?

Moscow has been pretty loud-mouthed about who it blames for Georgia’s blunder, despite early revelation that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice explicitly counseled the Georgian president not to take aggressive action.

To call Russia “free” is to do disservice to the very word. To call it “peace-loving,” equally laughable.
Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua... whoever is prepared to stir shit for the US in America.
Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua. Wow. Shaking in our boots, here.

Chavez has reached the end of the line. His term has a definite end; his budget is in a shambles; and he can’t tear away from dependency on American refineries, as he learned soon after making threats to do just that. Cuba has no leverage; Nicaragua, even less.
He said 'wield a stick against (Taiwan and) the Philippines'. It could just be a problem with grammer, but the statement itself sounded like he meant that America wanted to beat the Philippines with stick.
Lonestar has it right. I was ticking off reasons one might decide to develop a blue-water force. The rationales are best showcased by the United States and China. Speaking broadly, only a few others need apply. The European Union and Japan, for reasons of dependence on imported fuels. France, independently, if it wishes to continue playing kingmaker in Africa, although that is anyway of dubious merit in the practical sense.
Hello? Since when was Afghanistan an important client? Did you just rewrite the history books? And Iraq? I hear that America's ally Ukraine supplied Iraq with some GPS jammers and also China with some nice equipment as well.
Last time I turned on the news, tens of thousands of American and NATO troops were still on Afghan soil. Coalition forces were still responsible for development of the Afghan security force and reorientation of the Afghan economy.

America’s allies and other nations have made comparatively minor sales. The Iraqi Army now fields more Western equipment than ever before, and will take delivery of M1 Abrams main battle tanks. Yeah. A real boom market for the Russians. :roll:
Ah, so not only do you not know the proper defence theory, you, as usual, advocate that any nation who opposes US policy should just capitulate.
Are you going to, you know, substantiate your claims? The only one violating the dictates of good policy (gain > cost) is you.

Why do the Russians require long-range power projection? What will a large navy, based on helicopter-carrying cruisers or even supercarriers, help Russia achieve? If the answer is simply “to threaten the U.S. during times of tension,” the next question is, “Why, when the primary fields of probable contest with any foreign enemy – Eastern Europe, Central Asia, and Siberia – are on its landward frontiers?”
Wield a stick against Philippines? God, I got to go get a laugh. Who on earth wants to wield a stick against a nation that spends more time arguing among itself?
Military forces of the Republic of China have traded fire with Filipino landing parties in the Spratlys. No doubt the People’s Republic of China stations troops on certain parts of the archipelago in the event of similar encounters.
This is why I figured a Collseum battle is a futile exercise. The right winger demagogues such as you only think that only the US matters and nothing else.
Or… idiots such as yourself demand that others fill gaps in their own research; refrain from providing any rationales to substantiate their theses; and then sling trash to make up for those deficiencies.

If you think Russia will fulfill goals worth tens or hundreds of millions by rebuilding its navy (beyond restoring a boomer fleet large enough to assure Second Strike capability and floating some destroyers and support ships for general anti-piracy worldwide, and zone-control duties in the Black Sea, do tell.
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Axis Kast wrote:Five different parties lay claim to the Spratly Islands, including the Republic of China, the People’s Republic of China, Malaysia, the Republic of the Philippines, and the People’s Republic of Vietnam. All of the aforementioned have deployed, or do deploy, military forces on the disputed territory. The islands sit astride rich fishing grounds and, according to some surveys, considerable energy resources.
Philippines deploying military assets, heheheh. :lol:

Yeah, we have. It's a pretty pathetic military asset, tho.

Now, the US does have good reason to deploy a blue water navy to safeguard Taiwan. As for the Sprats, they're not really a hot issue... yet. But I can easily see the need for the US to project its force in the region in the near future, if China's navy gets stronger and if it goes to the Sprats and bullies smaller nations like the Philippines. We'll have to come crying to you for help.
“America did it in Iraq!” is not a logical argument illustrating compelling Russian need for a blue-water navy.
There's no logical argument to show why Russia shouldn't have a blue-water navy if it wants one. If they want one and if they can get one, then everyone should be happy for them and their new toys and congratulations are at hand.
Really good at what? Instigating puny Georgia, with a military optimized for light duties and almost no air force, into firing the first shot of a long-anticipated war?
Really good at safeguarding the lives of Abkhazian and South Ossetian people and to support their valiant fight for freedom and their fight against tyranny and terror, in the defense of their homes and their families. God bless them.
To call Russia “free” is to do disservice to the very word. To call it “peace-loving,” equally laughable.
But when they get the requisitely powerful military force, then they can also be the arbitrary self-appointed deciders of which nations are free and peace-loving.
Military forces of the Republic of China have traded fire with Filipino landing parties in the Spratlys. No doubt the People’s Republic of China stations troops on certain parts of the archipelago in the event of similar encounters.
Hrm, so far it's really nothing. I mean, it's not on the news here in the Philippines (where I live). But with a resurgent China, perhaps developing a bluer navy in the near future, we might need American help to make sure those goddamn... capitalo-commies... don't try anything funny with our claimed archipelago! :P
If you think Russia will fulfill goals worth tens or hundreds of millions by rebuilding its navy (beyond restoring a boomer fleet large enough to assure Second Strike capability and floating some destroyers and support ships for general anti-piracy worldwide, and zone-control duties in the Black Sea, do tell.
Because they want to, and no one is in a position to tell them how to spend their roubles?

Western powers, America in particular, doesn't need its overblown navy to protect the sea lanes and to secure its trading avenues or something. You don't need supercarriers and nuclear missile subs for that, there's nothing out there that can threaten your position. But you have it anyway, thus giving you unmatchable power.

At least be happy that with the Russians (and/or Chineseses) trying to replenish their rusting militaries by buying ridiculously tiny numbers of ships and missiles, you can now have some justification for your big bad militaries. You can exaggerate it and scare people into believing that there's a Bomber Gap or a Missile Gap or a Mine Shaft Gap or something! It'll be lovely! :)
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Fingolfin_Noldor
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Re: Russia to quadruple ICBM output

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Axis Kast wrote:Last time I turned on the news, tens of thousands of American and NATO troops were still on Afghan soil. Coalition forces were still responsible for development of the Afghan security force and reorientation of the Afghan economy.

America’s allies and other nations have made comparatively minor sales. The Iraqi Army now fields more Western equipment than ever before, and will take delivery of M1 Abrams main battle tanks. Yeah. A real boom market for the Russians. :roll:
You mean the Afghans were actually an opportunity when the Americans fostered a government on them? Wow, that is a great leap of logic there. The same applies to the Iraqis, and by the way, that sale of GPS jamming units by the Ukrainians took place before the war.
Are you going to, you know, substantiate your claims? The only one violating the dictates of good policy (gain > cost) is you.
Since fucking when is it a good idea to defend a large coastline with a huge body of water with a small coastal navy against an enemy with long reach and nukes? Oh wait, it's actually a good idea to send destroyers to fight carriers. :roll: It's as good as arguing that you should defend against a huge polearm with a small stick. Yeah, that's a great idea. Even China and India want to have blue water navies to secure the huge bodies of water in front of them for the express reason of defending their sealanes against potential threats such as the US. You cannot defend bodies of water without a fucking navy that can project its zone of control over that body of water.
Why do the Russians require long-range power projection? What will a large navy, based on helicopter-carrying cruisers or even supercarriers, help Russia achieve? If the answer is simply “to threaten the U.S. during times of tension,” the next question is, “Why, when the primary fields of probable contest with any foreign enemy – Eastern Europe, Central Asia, and Siberia – are on its landward frontiers?”
You are fucking dense aren't you? Russia needs its ports to stay open to trade with the world, or did you just handwave all those ports in Vladivostok and St. Petersburg and others away? Which in turn mean that you need to defend other sea lanes where you goods flow. Long range power projection itself allows one to defend larger bodies of water.

By the same arguments you give, then Europe as a whole should not get a blue water navy. But hey, France and Britain do for the expressed purpose of defending their bodies of water and their trade routes.
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