So I started reading Dune

[Phantasee]

What's up with the hand-in-the-box thing at the beginning? I think the significance of that 'test' passed over my head, can someone explain it to me in simple terms?

Also: other questions forthcoming.

[Bounty]

Nothing happens to the hand. It's just an illusion of pain to test if someone can overcome their psychological fears through willpower. If they can't, the Bene Gesserit or whatever the hell the witches call themselves have no use for you.

[The Spartan]

Nothing happens to the hand. It's just an illusion of pain to test if someone can overcome their psychological fears through willpower. If they can't, the Bene Gesserit or whatever the hell the witches call themselves have no use for you.

And immediately kill you because you're "not human".

[Phantasee]

Nothing happens to the hand. It's just an illusion of pain to test if someone can overcome their psychological fears through willpower. If they can't, the Bene Gesserit or whatever the hell the witches call themselves have no use for you.

And immediately kill you because you're "not human".

That's the part I didn't get. "Not human"? What?

[The Spartan]

A human can overcome their instincts and keep their hand in the box in spite of the pain. An animal will immediately try to escape the pain.

The thinking goes something like that.

[Phantasee]

A human can overcome their instincts and keep their hand in the box in spite of the pain. An animal will immediately try to escape the pain.

The thinking goes something like that.

Ahhh....hm. So not an actual, 'your mom fucked the dog' animal, but 'you're a retard with the mental capacity of a goldfish' animal.

I was concerned there were still furries in this distant future.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

When they say "not human" in Dune think of it more like "degenerate".

[The Spartan]

but 'you're a retard with the mental capacity of a goldfish' animal.

And thus are of inferior genes and shouldn't breed...

Basically it's a species wide, subtle eugenics program.

[Phantasee]

Sweet. Also, what exactly is a Mentat? And how is Paul like a Mentat, but not one? Is there a specific requirement to be one (other than, really smart or something).

[Bounty]

Sweet. Also, what exactly is a Mentat? And how is Paul like a Mentat, but not one? Is there a specific requirement to be one (other than, really smart or something).

Mentats are humans that are bred and trained to be capable of quickly absorbing, filtering through, and interpreting large amounts of data. They are like human computers, but not quite since they rely heavily on intuition and fuzzy pattern recognition. At least, that's how the encyclopaedia explains it.

Imagine if you typed "1+1" and the answer came back "probably 2". That's what a Mentat does.

I think Paul can be one since he was born with the appropriate genes to become one and trained under a pretty good Mentat. Real Mentats are trained from birth in special academies.

[Phantasee]

That's one thing I hate about ebooks, it's hard to flip back and forth with them.

There's quite a bit of Arabic in this book, isn't there? Are the Fremen descendents of our Arabs? You'd think they'd do their best to avoid a desert planet, after generations living in Middle East.

[Surlethe]

Herbert seems to have been heavily influenced by study of the Arab world.

[Thanas]

Also, the names of most of the ruling families always sounded a bit oriental to me. Like "Padishah Emperor" or "Shaddam", "Feyd" etc.

[fgalkin]

It's also a bit too heavy on the philobabble and oriental window dressing, while being distressingly light on logic, character development, and plot advancement.

Shield+laser=vut?

Just my .02 USD

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[XaLEv]

You'd think at some point somebody would have come up with las-head missiles.

[Adrian Laguna]

There's quite a bit of Arabic in this book, isn't there? Are the Fremen descendents of our Arabs? You'd think they'd do their best to avoid a desert planet, after generations living in Middle East.

They didn't move straight to Arrakis from the Middle East, they don't even remember the Middle East. The Fremen are descended from the Zensunni Wanderers, the second word would imply they moved around a lot. There is an important scene about half-way through the book were you get to see some of their history.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I love Dune. Yeah, everything said now is mostly accurate, but it's also important to remember Dune remains one of the most spectacular sci-fi conceptions even made. Everything has significance in that novel.

[Darth Nostril]

Just don't touch the prequels with an eight foot barge pole.

[Mayabird]

Remember, it's partially a parable about oil.
[line 2]

[Uraniun235]

You'd think at some point somebody would have come up with las-head missiles.

If I remember right, that runs into the convention against atomics - setting up lasguns to fire against shields strays dangerously close because the explosion is so big that it could be mistaken for an atomic explosion.

EDIT: It also runs into the other conventions of war they have. If I remember right, all the houses are basically pledged to only fight each other on terms which seek to minimize civilian casualties - hence the "War of Assassins" between the Atreides and Harkonnen. If you run around popping off lasgun/shield explosions you're likely to start incurring quite a few civilian casualties.

[fgalkin]

Shield+laser=vut?

That didn't bother me at all. It might not be what would happen in any kind of reality, but that doesn't really matter. It is just a magic handwave to keep the setting the way he wanted it, just like FTL.

No, the fact that it exists is not the problem, that's just magitech. The fact that you could get around the whole Tragic Betrayal! plot by simply sending out a guy with a raygun (by threatening to kill HIS family), or for the more human rights inclined lot, a timed device.

If you want the real bad stuff, look no further than the Sandworms, who are poisoned by water. Does that mean that you can kill it by farting on it?

Dune has all the worldbuilding of a Voyager episode, but because it is not the typical "rayguns and starships" sci-fi, most people don't see the gaping holes hidden by the veil of "different".

I could accept that, but add to it that it's slow as fuck, and the characters, with a few exceptions, are flat like cardboard and you get the bloated mess of incoherence that is Dune.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Uraniun235]

It's not like a drop of water is fatal to a sandworm, they can devour people - stillsuits and all - without killing themselves so they can obviously tolerate at least a few liters of the stuff.

[General Zod]

It's not like a drop of water is fatal to a sandworm, they can devour people - stillsuits and all - without killing themselves so they can obviously tolerate at least a few liters of the stuff.

It took several gallons to kill the baby sandworms, so it's safe to say it'd take a proportionate amount to bump off one of the fully grown ones.

[Phantasee]

There's quite a bit of Arabic in this book, isn't there? Are the Fremen descendents of our Arabs? You'd think they'd do their best to avoid a desert planet, after generations living in Middle East.

They didn't move straight to Arrakis from the Middle East, they don't even remember the Middle East. The Fremen are descended from the Zensunni Wanderers, the second word would imply they moved around a lot. There is an important scene about half-way through the book were you get to see some of their history.

I'm almost there. Jessica and Paul just met Stilgar, and are going to Sietch Tabr. (How do you pronounce sietch?)

[General Zod]

There's quite a bit of Arabic in this book, isn't there? Are the Fremen descendents of our Arabs? You'd think they'd do their best to avoid a desert planet, after generations living in Middle East.

They didn't move straight to Arrakis from the Middle East, they don't even remember the Middle East. The Fremen are descended from the Zensunni Wanderers, the second word would imply they moved around a lot. There is an important scene about half-way through the book were you get to see some of their history.

I'm almost there. Jessica and Paul just met Stilgar, and are going to Sietch Tabr. (How do you pronounce sietch?)

seetch, long e. the i is silent.