Comparable Worth (pay Equity reform)

[ArmorPierce]

I was flipping through an economic book and came upon comparable wage vs supply and demand for wages.

In case anyone doesn't know what it is Comparable Worth
Basically it argues that jobs that are dominated by females are underpaid because it is dominated by females. Comparable wage is a system where the wage would be based on the worth of the position to the company. In one Washington case, independent consultants gave a registered nurse more points than a computer systems analyst, and truck drivers received fewer points than clerks.

I would like to see some of your opinions on the matter. I agree that plenty of jobs are underpaid and that it may merit raising minimum wage or perhaps making minimum wage that differs over different jobs. Problem I see is who comes up with the worth of these positions. I disagree with the position that a office clerk should earn more than a truck driver. Whilst they both require little or no education, a office clerk is a lot more comfortable position than a truck driver. Should a job that is easier, require less formal training (ie office clerk) merit a pay raise above that of a truck driver's?

Office clerks in the area that I live has a higher wage than my father does and my father does who works fixing stuff at the hotel (now takes care of some facility maintenance like taking out the garbage since the other guy left). I don't think that an office clerk deserves more pay than he does when his education is equal or more than those of office clerks (he did attend a university before moving to this country), quite the contrary actually.

[Kanastrous]

Seems to me the comfort level involved in the respective jobs is less important that the degree of competition among people looking to fill them.

[ArmorPierce]

I agree but there is no denying that certain jobs that require little education and its comfort is higher than another job would have higher competition of individuals desiring the position. Certain jobs such as office clerks and such are highly sought jobs for those that possess only a high school education or less which better explains the reason why the pay is low rather than it being purely due to sexism.

[frogcurry]

WTF? Gender equality has nothing to do with it - if they couldn't get enough people in to do the job, they'd raise the pay until they did (or supply of the service would necessarily decrease). Clearly its not hard to get people for these jobs at present, and particularly woman from the sound of it. I don't see a clerk as requiring more than a truck driver, as good reliable truck drivers are probably harder to get, and I suspect the rate of pay reflects this. A nurse is all fine and well, but there are lots of reasonably competent nurses and they aren't hard to get if you want to hire them, whereas some engineering specialities can be expensive because there are so few experts who are reasonably competent.

The fact that your father is educated but working in a (frankly speaking) pretty lowly position is his own issue, and in that scenario an office clerk does deserve more pay. The office clerk would be harder to get at the right skill level, would need more training (and so more time invested) and would be harder to replace as they'd probably be more valuable and better at their job after a few years. Your relative is working in a job that a wide range of people can do, so there's not any need to pay him enough to keep him there. The accumulated benefit of retaining him (as opposed to employing someone unfamiliar with the site) is probably low as well, as he's probably not doing anything that benefits from familiarity or built-up experience. If someone wants to be paid more due to greater education or skills, then they need to use them, which isn't the case in your example.

The only point where market forces seem to really fall out the window is in a limited number of professions such as banking and the law, where the difficulty of new competitors in the market seems to make it possible for a very highly paid (overpaid?) clique to arise. Or at least, for a while.

Trying to set rates of pay by some sort of personal value system will leave things open to bias and personal judgement of those who set the rate, whereas a market situation lets the invisible hand do all the work. The only real deficiency in the market at the moment is that too many people are probably inclined to not seek better employment for fear of change, and don't get the full benefit of the market system at present.

[ArmorPierce]

I've done work as an "office clerk" there is a reason why it only requires an hs education (if that). It is a simple job for the most part that anyone can do. From my own experience (I've worked as an office clerk), his job requires more knowledge than an office clerk does. The only difficult part of being an office clerk is figuring out the office procedures. It is true that anyone can do it, as much as anyone can do any job. However it takes knowledge to actually do it right.

as he's probably not doing anything that benefits from familiarity or built-up experience.

He maintains and repairs utilities and the building. Unlike most others that have the same positions (those that are untrained and lacks experience) he doesn't just call someone else to fix it or just have it replaced. That doesn't require any type of built-up experience?

The reason for him working a low job I guess have to do with a combination of factors including english being his second language and not attempting to get a better paying job. Also, at entry-level, his job is probably the better paying job which is another reason why he stayed there rather than attempting to find another job.

[frogcurry]

He maintains and repairs utilities and the building. Unlike most others that have the same positions (those that are untrained and lacks experience) he doesn't just call someone else to fix it or just have it replaced. That doesn't require any type of built-up experience?

The reason for him working a low job I guess have to do with a combination of factors including english being his second language and not attempting to get a better paying job. Also, at entry-level, his job is probably the better paying job which is another reason why he stayed there rather than attempting to find another job.

The implication appears to be that he is better at doing the job than a random person off the street would. But the extra benefit of that skill or effort probably isn't significantly valued by his employers.

You've made a good point that at entry level, moving position may involve a pay cut when you lose the cumulative benefit of any wage rises at a previous employment (if its not seen as relevant to the new job). I can see some people being trapped by an inability to afford a reduction or interruption to income when considering the possibility of new employment. There may be a discounting effect in long term income for some people in jobs which are still quite high value to a company, because their job hasn't given them transferrable skills that they can take elsewhere so the employer is less incentivised to pay them more. My sister used to be in that sort of position.

[ArmorPierce]

The implication appears to be that he is better at doing the job than a random person off the street would. But the extra benefit of that skill or effort probably isn't significantly valued by his employers.

That is exactly right actually, there tends to be an asymmetry of information and not the realization of such. At a previous employment, he was fired and replaced with some younger guy with no experience except for having worked at home depot (they considered that experienced). Come summer, the guy didn't know how to repair air conditioners and various other equipment and they were asking him back.

The problem is that some jobs basically anyone can do, others requires more skill, experience and knowledge. Even though this is the case, most people just lump everything together.

[SecondStorm]

WTF? Gender equality has nothing to do with it - if they couldn't get enough people in to do the job, they'd raise the pay until they did (or supply of the service would necessarily decrease). Clearly its not hard to get people for these jobs at present, and particularly woman from the sound of it. I don't see a clerk as requiring more than a truck driver, as good reliable truck drivers are probably harder to get, and I suspect the rate of pay reflects this. A nurse is all fine and well, but there are lots of reasonably competent nurses and they aren't hard to get if you want to hire them, whereas some engineering specialities can be expensive because there are so few experts who are reasonably competent.

I dont know if there are lots of nurses in Aberdeen, Scotland but theres an international nursing shortage. Getting a new nurse can be hard and many countries tries to import nurses from other countries as a fairly desperate measure because there are many problems involved with getting foreign nurses to come to another country and ultimately all those problems effects the patients care.

One of the ways to combat the nursing shortage have indeed been higher pay, atleast in my own country.