BSG: Caprica

[tezunegari]

The prequel to the now finished nBSG will finally be published on April 21st on DVD with the show starting to air in early 2010.
As one of my friends is quite adamant on getting the pilot DVD I might be able to get my hands on it (though I might have to free it out of his high-security DVD vault).

Are you going to wait for the 2010 airing or will you pay the $18 bucks for the early release?
And do you have any expectations towards the show?

[Crazedwraith]

How about option 3? "Neither" I'm not wasting my money on it. And neither am I likely to see it when it makes its way on to the telly here.

[Starglider]

The fact that the primary cylons are just human clones with a mild case of crazy was, on reflection, the worst part of nBSG. Yes, even worse than the excessive mysticism - that was an essentially superficial problem while the boringness/whininess/stupidity of the cylons was fundamental. I am not looking forward to a show focused entirely on that aspect, particularly since it's bound to have even more of the luddism the final episode of nBSG had (you know, with a healthy dose of 'thou shalt not tamper with life and death' and 'there are things man was not meant to know!!!').

[Rochey]

I really don't have much belief that the show will be any good. I'll give it a watch when it comes out, just in case it surpasses my expectations, but I'm not shelling out money for it.

[FedRebel]

Where's the third option?

You know...

"Frak no! They're going to bundle it with the Season 1 boxset release anyway"

[Anguirus]

^ Indeed. I already got burned on Razor and I don't have the $18. (I shouldn't even be buying D&D books...sigh.)

[Darth Onasi]

Two things made nBSG good.

- Adama kicking butt.
- Tigh the badass space pirate
- Starship battle porn

Like I said, three things.
Caprica will have none of those.

[starfury]

nBSG was the 21st century Bab5, complete with the Ultra-realism early seasons turning into mysticism in the later seasons, I stopped caring plotwise after the end of new caprica plotline and watched mainly for starship battles and seeing the gleaming metal centurions, cousins to T-800s of Teriminators.

nBSG thoughts article,which echos my thoughts

[Starglider]

nBSG was the 21st century Bab5

Further support for my position. Babylon 5 was worthwhile but the attempted follow-ons got progressively worse (Crusade - poor - Legend of the Rangers - awful).

[Gil Hamilton]

The fact that the primary cylons are just human clones with a mild case of crazy was, on reflection, the worst part of nBSG. Yes, even worse than the excessive mysticism - that was an essentially superficial problem while the boringness/whininess/stupidity of the cylons was fundamental. I am not looking forward to a show focused entirely on that aspect, particularly since it's bound to have even more of the luddism the final episode of nBSG had (you know, with a healthy dose of 'thou shalt not tamper with life and death' and 'there are things man was not meant to know!!!').

I agree with you. I dislike how the Cylons NECESSARILY in the show had to primary basically be human and that Caprica is making the Cylon rebellion a result of "human" Cylons. In my opinion, Battlestar Galactica is alot more interesting if the Cylons themselves, a collection of AIs and their attached robot armies, came to religion and a desire for freedom on their own, rather than it largely being an memetic infection from a human-turned-artificial.

One might think that the Cylon Rebellion being a Skynet event is cliche, but at the same time, it's also a huge cliche that all sources of any independent thought or concept MUST be human native. Why the hell CAN'T an AI find Robot-Jesus or whatever and decide that human beings are abusing its brethren on its own? Doing an exploration in Caprica of how the Cylons went from Mankind's servants to Kill All Humans Mode would be interesting. Even the fucking Wachowskis at least TRIED to explore the issue in the Second Rennaissance of the Matrix, as hamfisted as that was (and somewhere between inspired and brutally ripping off better science fiction writers, like Harlan Ellison).

I think Ron Moore and that gang have made a serious mistake in the fundamental grounding of nBSG is that it MUST be a human centered story. Caprica would be a great place to explore the non-human side of it and see how things arrived at shit hitting the fan in the main series.

[starfury]

I remember back when nBSG first appeared, there was already constant comparsions to bab5, even the way the show was criticized was the in the bab5 style critiscims, on the this very board, we had those debates and comparsions, how ironic that nBSG turned out to be exactly that, following and making many of that same mistakes for bab5, remembering the uproar over the end of the shadow war in bab5 pretty much echos the uproar over the ending of nBSG.

[Darth Onasi]

I believe Ron More and co. are victims of their own praise like so many before them.
People have always lauded nBSG for it's strong characters and development and they went overboard in it as a result, leading to all the Battlestar Livejournal criticisms.
However, rather than listen to the criticisms they continue to latch on to that early praise and go "Hey! Let's make a WHOLE SHOW about HUMAN DRAMA oh oh and the Cylons will be human clones right from the beginning because toasters are stupid lol. Plus it'll save money."

[Anguirus]

^ Your chronology may be a little off...this pilot is actually an adaptation into BSG-verse of a non-BSG story.

And "saving money" may be the difference between having a show and not having it. If this show sucks, so be it, but I don't blame them for not writing to cater to toaster porn lovers (in which I include myself) anymore than the miniseries was written for the oBSG lovers.

[Starglider]

And "saving money" may be the difference between having a show and not having it. If this show sucks, so be it, but I don't blame them for not writing to cater to toaster porn lovers (in which I include myself) anymore than the miniseries was written for the oBSG lovers.

They could've made the humanoid cylons androids, or cyborgs with computer brains in cloned bodies, with no significant impact on the budget. That would've allowed them to have a genuinely different and alien psychology. The cylons just aren't threatening after they're revealed to be a bunch of bickering stereotypical humans with biotech ships. I think they would have been much creepier, and certainly more interesting, if they could pass as human but were revealed as thoroughly alien on close inspection. For the ultimate Starglider AI Character Excellence Award, the plot notion of having some of the cylons ally with the humans could result in both sides appreciating each other's strengths and trying to complement each other, rather than the artificial beings desperately trying to be more like the humans even as they maintain their superficial disdain for them. I do not anticipate having to give out this award any time soon.

[Darth Onasi]

When I first heard of Caprica I was hoping to see a modern take on the IL-series. Alas.

[Mayabird]

I imagine that a lot of us will be doing doing the same thing I'll be doing, which is letting some other poor schmucks watch it and see if it's good or not and then make a decision on whether or not I'll watch it from their reactions.

[Havok]

In my opinion, Battlestar Galactica is alot more interesting if the Cylons themselves, a collection of AIs and their attached robot armies, came to religion and a desire for freedom on their own, rather than it largely being an memetic infection from a human-turned-artificial.

One might think that the Cylon Rebellion being a Skynet event is cliche, but at the same time, it's also a huge cliche that all sources of any independent thought or concept MUST be human native. Why the hell CAN'T an AI find Robot-Jesus or whatever and decide that human beings are abusing its brethren on its own?

Uh... That is what happened isn't it? The Centurions rebelled long before the Cylons arrived from Earth 1. They also had their own religion with one god as opposed to both the Colonial Humans and the Earth 1 Cylons that arrived after the rebellion and first Cylon war who believed in multiple gods.

[Gil Hamilton]

Uh... That is what happened isn't it? The Centurions rebelled long before the Cylons arrived from Earth 1. They also had their own religion with one god as opposed to both the Colonial Humans and the Earth 1 Cylons that arrived after the rebellion and first Cylon war who believed in multiple gods.

I thought the plot of Caprica was that the Cylons in the Colonies arrived at religion and rebellion due to a human Cylon made by one of the scientists in the show?

[Havok]

Uh... That is what happened isn't it? The Centurions rebelled long before the Cylons arrived from Earth 1. They also had their own religion with one god as opposed to both the Colonial Humans and the Earth 1 Cylons that arrived after the rebellion and first Cylon war who believed in multiple gods.

I thought the plot of Caprica was that the Cylons in the Colonies arrived at religion and rebellion due to a human Cylon made by one of the scientists in the show?

Well then they are already going back on what was said in nBSG. I dunno, maybe I'm just misremembering it.

[Darth Onasi]

From what I've read there are at least two human-clone Cylons, possibly more.

[Junghalli]

The fact that the primary cylons are just human clones with a mild case of crazy was, on reflection, the worst part of nBSG.

What I don't get is why the skinjobs had to be in charge of the Cylon civilization. It doesn't even make sense: the mechanoid Cylons would make up the muscle of the Cylon military, why would they submit to enslavement by some meatbags with delusions of grandeur? Why couldn't the skinjobs just be spies and saboteurs? Even if you must keep the silly religious commitment to organics I don't think their absolutely dominant position in their society (to the extent of being able to pull stuff like the enslavement of the Centurions) makes much sense.

[starfury]

What I don't get is why the skinjobs had to be in charge of the Cylon civilization. It doesn't even make sense: the mechanoid Cylons would make up the muscle of the Cylon military, why would they submit to enslavement by some meatbags with delusions of grandeur? Why couldn't the skinjobs just be spies and saboteurs? Even if you must keep the silly religious commitment to organics I don't think their absolutely dominant position in their society (to the extent of being able to pull stuff like the enslavement of the Centurions) makes much sense.

I see shades of star wars Confederacy of Independent systems's droid armies in that sense, but they at least had a more of a excuse as why organics were in control of the droid war machines.

[Uraniun235]

The fact that the primary cylons are just human clones with a mild case of crazy was, on reflection, the worst part of nBSG.

What I don't get is why the skinjobs had to be in charge of the Cylon civilization. It doesn't even make sense: the mechanoid Cylons would make up the muscle of the Cylon military, why would they submit to enslavement by some meatbags with delusions of grandeur? Why couldn't the skinjobs just be spies and saboteurs? Even if you must keep the silly religious commitment to organics I don't think their absolutely dominant position in their society (to the extent of being able to pull stuff like the enslavement of the Centurions) makes much sense.

I think even early on there were hints of the Cylons thinking that the 'path to god' or some such religious/mystic crap demanded that they become fleshy bipeds that fuck to procreate. Why else would they have created the initial Hybrid, before they encountered the Five?

[Stofsk]

The fact that the primary cylons are just human clones with a mild case of crazy was, on reflection, the worst part of nBSG.

What I don't get is why the skinjobs had to be in charge of the Cylon civilization. It doesn't even make sense: the mechanoid Cylons would make up the muscle of the Cylon military, why would they submit to enslavement by some meatbags with delusions of grandeur? Why couldn't the skinjobs just be spies and saboteurs? Even if you must keep the silly religious commitment to organics I don't think their absolutely dominant position in their society (to the extent of being able to pull stuff like the enslavement of the Centurions) makes much sense.

I think even early on there were hints of the Cylons thinking that the 'path to god' or some such religious/mystic crap demanded that they become fleshy bipeds that fuck to procreate. Why else would they have created the initial Hybrid, before they encountered the Five?

Maybe they were curious as to what being human was like? Maybe the Cylons have a pinocchio complex.

[Vympel]

I'm surprised no one's posted the Caprica clip of the prototype Centurion in the shooting gallery, blowing the shit out of a bunch of target robots.

Apparently the show is set 6 years before the start of the first Cylon War - I call the series will finish just before the end (assuming it gets a good run) and then there'll be a Cylon War miniseries like Band of Brothers. Maybe. They have collapsed all the Battlestar sets, though (though they've been digitally stored if they need to be reconstructed).